Dr.Jonesy
Well-known member
Paden said:I agree that they went back to the Raiders formula in terms of story structure. Raiders and Crusade share the same "grand quest across multiple continents" framework, which gave the latter film a comfortable familiarity to fans of Raiders. However, some of the elements in Crusade, for myself, really detracted from the movie feeling as gritty as the first. For instance, the character of Marcus Brody goes from being one of Indy's respected colleagues to serving as comic relief, all the way up to the film's close. While I can accept Brody as something of a sequestered academic, his gross incompetence really seemed at odds with the man we met in Raiders. In addition, some of the action sequences (the plane in particular comes to mind) seemed more in keeping with the inflatable raft/mine cart sequences from Temple of Doom. So while I would agree that some aspects of Crusade hearkened back to Raiders, others definitely were more in line with the different tone begun in Temple.
Well said. Being one of the "mixed hardcores", I definitely came into my first viewing of KOTCS with a mixture of expectations and trepidations, all of which really detracted from the experience. Throughout the movie, I had an ongoing internal dialogue involving what I thought should have been done or what I thought should have been excluded. Needless to say, I left the theater with a bad taste in my mouth. Since then, I've made a concerted effort to enjoy the movie strictly on its own merits and have developed a much kinder opinion of it as a result. Even so, I'm still a die hard partisan of Raiders and to a certain extent, will always wish that all of the sequels had stuck closely to the tone of that first installment.
You're one of the first posters on this site that I have ever had a hard time disagreeing with.
I went into KOTCS the same way as you. And I remember people applauding as the lights went up and asking myself "What are they applauding for?" since I had such mixed and confused emotions about it.
It really saddened me back in May '08 how most everyone I knew loved the film or at least thought it was worthy and fun, and some ranked it above TOD (Some even LC) and I didn't care much for it. However, after my second viewing, I thought it was great. It just needed to digest. Sort of like the time I saw the last 2. I didn't love them from the get-go, either.
And I do think that the casuals do own this series in a huge way. They own the film business, because the ticket sales into the millions isn't the money of die hard film fans, they're of everyday people going to see a good movie and be entertained. There are alot more casuals than hard-cores and always will be. And the thing about the casual fan is that they can have a better time enjoying something and cherishing it. Whereas we have to pick it apart and know every fault and failure, and it detracts from our experience.
Casual fans and everyday movie-goers and Indyfans loved it. But people like us who take time to be on a message board and collect memorabilia, had a more diverse reception of the film.
Hell, I got 3 friends with KOTCS as their favorite. The other 2 friends live TOD, and the rest are into ROTLA or LC. And these people grew up with the series too. But they didn't live and breathe it. And that's what I think makes a difference. I never see a shelf of Indiana Jones films with many left. All 4 films have only 1 or 2 copies left. And that shows something.
And about the sequels, I think each Indy sequel takes what was before it and mixes it with its own new way. TOD took some of ROTLA's grit and combined it with horror/comedy, LC took ROTLA's formula and TOD's comedic touch with Marcus/Sallah (sadly), and KOTCS took some of ROTLA's grit, TOD's way of trying new things, and LC's family reunion feel and humor whilst adding its own Sci-Fi '50s twist.
They always take what was before them and mash it with what's new. And whilst like Paden says, I do wish they would've stuck with the ROTLA feel and grit. But that didn't happen. So I can either take 'em or leave 'em. And I'll take 'em, thank you!