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Old 07-29-2009, 10:33 PM   #51
Robyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlock
Good grief.

I hate to get didactic, but you've left me no choice...

Burn this into your brains: Good storytelling is not, not, NOT about showing likeable characters in agreeable situations. CONFLICT (and its emotional effect on the audience) is the heart of drama.

(It's okay if you can't get your mind around that... Neither could the Indy IV development team. Somewhere along the way, somebody swapped in the word "SPECTACLE" where I had "conflict", and thus...)

So, whether or not Pale Horse, or I, or anyone else LIKES Marion, should NOT matter in considering if killing her off is a good story idea. Actually, let me correct myself... because the point of a film or screenplay is to get an emotional response, it is often beneficial (and I would argue NECESSARY) to kill a likeable character because they are likeable and because of the effect that that has on the story (and thereby the audience). Yes, kids, even in mainstream movies. What would the Fugitive, Old Yeller, Braveheart, or Gladiator be without the death of one or more palatable characters? (Which is not to say that killing a good guy is the ONLY way to create conflict, or that doing so can't be silly, ineffective, manipulative, trite, or otherwise botched hideously.)



All the ooshy-skooshy Marion wuv in this thread only reinforces the dramatic potential of offing her. I wouldn't do it out of spite, but as a splash of cold water in the face of an audience made complacent by low-conflict, consequence-free movies (cough *Crystal Skull* cough).

That said, despair not fuzzy-wuzzy types... it is my belief that Master Pale Horse remains a Quixotic figure, and that all the painful possibilities of real drama will be kept a safe distance from any future chapters in the Indy saga. The Neighborhood of Make-Believe is safe. The ultimate victory is yours.

Hey! Raiders was AWESOME without the death of Indy or Marion and it wasn't fuzzy wuzzy! Unless it's like Rocket said where they kill a loved character only to bring them back.. I just disagree.. I think you guys are making Indy wayy too dark, I want some drama-action too but it can't be too dark! Indy is suppose to still keep a certain amount of lightheartedness to keep it fun.. and even though Mutt isn't one of my favorite I still would never kill him off! You guys need to stop being such downers! I mean I sure don't feel like being depressed after I'm done watching an Indy movie!

And "tied down"??? Marion didn't tie Indy down in Raiders! That's why she's his perfect partner

Last edited by Robyn : 07-29-2009 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:57 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack that whip
I just think that if Marion were to be killed off, it should have serious weight and not be blown off, or done for the wrong reasons in the first place. I have my doubts as to whether that would happen, and also whether at least some fans (again, not necessarily the ones in this thread) might wish for it because they honestly want a movie with more dramatic weight.

I agree.

Ultimately, not only is a dark Indy 5 unlikely, but it's also probably wrong even if the Powers That Be were amenable to the idea. A heavy Indy 5 would likely be an over-correction that would leave a bad taste after the preceeding meringue of Crystal Skull. The bar has been set, and with the financial rewards garnered by the last flick, there's no reason to raise it.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:57 PM   #53
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Crud. Accidental double-post.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:46 PM   #54
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Alright that's it... I've had it.. this thread has just gotten too dark and depression.. I'm gonna have to add some love in here.


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Old 07-31-2009, 06:59 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
How anyone can say that Marion in KOTCS is a compelling and story advancing character with depth and interest is beyond me.
Without Marion, as Indy says, "shooting me won't get you anywhere." For whom is he saving the world anyway? Better make her barefoot and pregnant to raise the stakes higher. And what guarantee does the audience have you'll let him keep any meager reward at the end of 5?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
CGI of Eden and Sword powers
That's why you never stash a magical Macguffin in your pants...
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
Without Marion, as Indy says, "shooting me won't get you anywhere." For whom is he saving the world anyway? Better make her barefoot and pregnant to raise the stakes higher. And what guarantee does the audience have you'll let him keep any meager reward at the end of 5?


Ah.. Finally someone's talking sense!

Allow me to quote the KOTCS novel

*He heard a shout from around the corner behind him. It was Marion.
Indy pushed backward against the pull, one hard step at a time. It was as if the air around him had become warm molasses, flowing toward the abysmal hole. He fought against it with all his will, driven not so much by pure survival as by something more important. For the First time in his life he had a reason to live(Marion!)*
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:23 AM   #57
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Can kill Marion and Mutt off, cancer car accident, don't really care, don't want to see them again!
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:17 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by roundshort
Can kill Marion and Mutt off, cancer car accident, don't really care, don't want to see them again!


Well that's a nice attitude..

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Old 08-03-2009, 09:40 PM   #59
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Once again, here's my take on Eden...
http://raven.theraider.net/showpost.php?p=394376
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:03 AM   #60
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R. I .P Indy

Ladys and Gentleman,

you expect another Indiana Jones Movie with Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones?
Come on, - be honest:
Nothing new at ComicCon,
Shia just blew just hot air with his "they have cracked the story" because of publicity for Transformers 2,
Producer Frank Marshall knows nothing about it,
Lucasfilm earns much more money with the to me meanwhile boring Star Wars-Franchise

Indy 5? For me this ship has sailed!

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Old 08-04-2009, 10:57 AM   #61
Robyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanselation
Ladys and Gentleman,

you expect another Indiana Jones Movie with Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones?
Come on, - be honest:
Nothing new at ComicCon,
Shia just blew just hot air with his "they have cracked the story" because of publicity for Transformers 2,
Producer Frank Marshall knows nothing about it,
Lucasfilm earns much more money with the to me meanwhile boring Star Wars-Franchise

Indy 5? For me this ship has sailed!


That's what everyone said about Indy 4 too, but we finally got it.. Of course they can't wait as long as they did for Indy 4, but I do think we'll get atleast one more
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:33 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanselation
you expect another Indiana Jones Movie with Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones?
Come on, - be honest:
Nothing new at ComicCon

But why did anyone think they would announce something at ComicCon? It's not like they did so back in 2004/05/06. It wasn't until production was already underway that they made the presentation in 2007.

The fact that they're keeping the idea alive is why most fans expect another one. If they had no intentions of making Indy 5, they would just say, "Indy 4 was the final Indy movie." This is what everyone expected them to say all along anyway.

Remember, it was Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford who started the rumors. Even the most die-hard fans assumed Indy 4 would be the end.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:38 PM   #63
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I can't believe I am bumping this thread. I must have drank the KOTCS koolaid when I started it.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:51 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I can't believe I am bumping this thread. I must have drank the KOTCS koolaid when I started it.

You travel a path left untrod by many on The Raven, Pale Horse. Your hoof prints are compelling.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:36 AM   #65
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Oh, a title http://raven.theraider.net/showpost.php?p=239867

Indiana Jones and the Edge of Creation.
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:11 PM   #66
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I like it. Pulpy but mysterious, as the best Indy titles are. I like "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" for its pulpiness but it felt a little bit too specific somehow, like if the second movie had been called "Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Thuggee Cult." Even simply changing it to "Kingdom of the Skull" might have made the difference in terms of evocativeness.

But what would the "Edge of Creation" be about?
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