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Old 10-01-2016, 08:39 PM   #251
Indy86
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It's indeed an odd transformation. Marcus from Raiders seemed not like a foolish man at all and in LC he stood more in the way than anything else or got lost in his own museum. I think changing him like that was another way for Spielberg to make up for Temple. Still I don't know why he was apologizing. You like it or you don't like it. I do have to say that Temple was perhaps Spielbergs darkest movie when it comes to action/adventure.
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Old 10-01-2016, 08:57 PM   #252
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Yeah, I like all the films in their own way, and I agree that TOD is the darkest in tone (human sacrifice, blood drinking etc.). However for me there's something special about Raiders; it has an eerie, otherworldly quality that none of the other films quite managed to capture IMO.

I feel the same way about the original Ghostbusters - it has a special unsettling atmosphere that really enhances the film. I think that the soundtrack has something to do with it.

It's hard to put into words but for me, genre material is often strongest when it succeeds on more than one level e.g. Ghostbusters is a great supernatural comedy partly because it is genuinely eerie; Raiders is a great popcorn adventure film partly because it has this underlying seriousness.
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Old 10-02-2016, 10:06 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy86
It's indeed an odd transformation. Marcus from Raiders seemed not like a foolish man at all and in LC he stood more in the way than anything else or got lost in his own museum. I think changing him like that was another way for Spielberg to make up for Temple.

Actually, Denholm Elliot made it pretty clear that he believed Marcus was written more as comic relief in order to cede ground to the Henry Sr. character, who was playing the mentor role in the context of that story.

That said, I believe the old Marcus is still very evident in the scene where he and Indy find Henry Sr.'s office ransacked. "I'll tell him we'll take two." He is then immediately a bumbling character in the next scene. Of course, Elliot is such a great actor it doesn't matter.
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Old 10-02-2016, 02:07 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
Actually, Denholm Elliot made it pretty clear that he believed Marcus was written more as comic relief in order to cede ground to the Henry Sr. character, who was playing the mentor role in the context of that story.

That said, I believe the old Marcus is still very evident in the scene where he and Indy find Henry Sr.'s office ransacked. "I'll tell him we'll take two." He is then immediately a bumbling character in the next scene. Of course, Elliot is such a great actor it doesn't matter.

Both very interesting points!
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Old 10-02-2016, 03:37 PM   #255
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I think Raiders is more serious than LC indeed. Indy losing the idol, but Marcus also despite he only he three major scenes. But you could rely on Marcus, I think in Raiders and less in LC. But I think Denholm is more a funny actor than a serious one, however in both movies he shows he's up for it an besides Raiders and LC there is not one movie I know him from.
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Old 10-02-2016, 03:50 PM   #256
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My bug bear moment is the leap of faith.....

It only works if you are in exactly the right spot... and dont move. That means no head movements, no looking around and no moving backwards or forwards and you need to be exactly the right height for it to work as an optical illusion. Yet we see it from several different camera angles and it still seems to work.

Didnt like it.
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Old 10-02-2016, 04:01 PM   #257
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Yet Indy carries a full holy grail over that. Still the idea was nice.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:18 PM   #258
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I always interpreted the leap of faith as being that the bridge truly was invisible (rather than an angle-based optical illusion) and that the ILM effect is a way of communicating an abstract idea.
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Old 12-09-2016, 03:43 AM   #259
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The tunnel/dumb fighter pilot scene in LC. Cringey moment in an otherwise great movie.
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Old 12-10-2016, 01:04 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
Actually, Denholm Elliot made it pretty clear that he believed Marcus was written more as comic relief in order to cede ground to the Henry Sr. character, who was playing the mentor role in the context of that story.

That said, I believe the old Marcus is still very evident in the scene where he and Indy find Henry Sr.'s office ransacked. "I'll tell him we'll take two." He is then immediately a bumbling character in the next scene. Of course, Elliot is such a great actor it doesn't matter.

There has always been much discussion on how Marcus Brody changes between the two films. I always felt his character was the same as Raiders in the start of LC in New York and Venice. He is at home in the big city world of academia and curatorial work in museums. Once we see him again in Alexandretta his character changes. Of course by this point in the movie we have already met Henry Sr and the mentor/father figure aspect of Brody is no longer needed as Indy now has his actually dad along for the ride. While the story clearly dictated that his character change into comic relief for the later part of the movie, you could also say maybe that he is out of his element. He is not a field man and up to that point in the series we have never seen him in a rugged local where much of Indy's adventures take him. While you could say this goes against his line from Raiders about the fact that if he was younger he would have gone after the Ark himself, you could also say maybe he just realized he no longer has the stomach for that kind of adventure as he got older. This is clearly evident in the Hatay scenes in LC. Or your could also say that he was just embellishing himself and field work in more rugged/remote locals was never his strong suit. That is how I have always looked at it.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:08 AM   #261
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I can't stand Lao Che. There, i said it.

I also wish Elsa could kick Willie from TOD's ass
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:56 AM   #262
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The scene in Temple where the Thugee guard throws the sledgehammer and whacks a guy in the head with it. I'm all for slapstick humor if it's done properly but that scene feels so cheap and unbelievable.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:49 AM   #263
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There are lots of scenes in KOTCS I'm not fond of, but keeping it to the original trilogy I'd say the entire opening sequence of TLC. I just can't relate to that being Indy, and of course you've got all the coincidences happening in that one event that shape the character. I'd have much preferred an opening featuring Harrison.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:28 PM   #264
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I don't dislike it now, but for a long time I didn't like the young Indy sequence in Last Crusade. I hated the way he seemed to aquire many of his 'Indy' trademarks in one misadventure like that.
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