Fedora's hat
- Thread starter oliverjones18
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oliverjones18
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Fedoras hat looked like a Dorfman Pacific
Crack that whip
New member
I don't think it's supposed to be the same hat. The cut to Ford is just showing the transition; the idea is that the hat (not that specific hat, but just a hat of that sort) is the last piece of the puzzle. I really doubt that becomes "the" Indy hat, though (for that matter, there surely isn't just one single hat for him in his adult life anyway - so perhaps he wear's "Fedora's" fedora again after all, but no, that specific hat isn't his single lifetime companion or anything like that).
muttjones
New member
I think that this is an Indiana Jones film. And in Indiana Jones films the most plausible answer to something is barely ever the reason that our hearts warm or that our entertainment bones tickle with excitement when we sit down and watch indy crack that whip.
So i think that the hat is supposed to be the same one because it is the coolest way to do it.
It is no fun if every few years he has to pop on down to Fedoras 'R' Us.
If u really want to get technical and psychological:
Young Indy would have felt so proud to have been given the hat from a sort of role model/father figure.
Because his dad only ever focused on the holy grail, Young Indy would have never truly had a father figure to nurture him up to man-hood.
Indy would have kept the hat his whole life and would have been buried with it as a sign of respect and admiration to the grave robbing Fedora.
Why else would he feel the need to retrieve it from under the closing doorway in Temple of Doom if he could just go get another one after that adventure.
The hat Young Indy gets from Fedora is the hat he has in all his adventures, regardless of whether in the movie the ribbon is a little bigger or the brim is slightly wider.
So i think that the hat is supposed to be the same one because it is the coolest way to do it.
It is no fun if every few years he has to pop on down to Fedoras 'R' Us.
If u really want to get technical and psychological:
Young Indy would have felt so proud to have been given the hat from a sort of role model/father figure.
Because his dad only ever focused on the holy grail, Young Indy would have never truly had a father figure to nurture him up to man-hood.
Indy would have kept the hat his whole life and would have been buried with it as a sign of respect and admiration to the grave robbing Fedora.
Why else would he feel the need to retrieve it from under the closing doorway in Temple of Doom if he could just go get another one after that adventure.
The hat Young Indy gets from Fedora is the hat he has in all his adventures, regardless of whether in the movie the ribbon is a little bigger or the brim is slightly wider.
Las Vegas Jones
New member
Fedora's hat was a hat out of a large box of hats at Western Costume, It was re-blocked in the Hat Department by Eddie Barone`(who taught me how to block hats using the steam powered machine and hat blocks going back many years, I almost wish I had access to that equipment, but it was destroyed when Western's Melrose building was torn down by Paramount for a Parking lot and theater) and after being in one of the lock ups at Western after filming completed it went back in the that same Fedora box it had started out in after the film was released and had probably been used many times since then on other productions or rentals of Indy costumes at Halloween..
It wasn't from any of the Hat sellers that are out there now, It was probably made in the 1940's or 1950's Western has (had) stuff that goes back to the silent movie days
I know this as I was working at Western Costume when Las Crusade was made.
So, the reailty about the hat is, it was never worn by Harrison Ford, I guess that means it was not any of Indy's adult hats.
It wasn't from any of the Hat sellers that are out there now, It was probably made in the 1940's or 1950's Western has (had) stuff that goes back to the silent movie days
I know this as I was working at Western Costume when Las Crusade was made.
So, the reailty about the hat is, it was never worn by Harrison Ford, I guess that means it was not any of Indy's adult hats.
oliverjones18
Member
I would actually kind of like it if he had more than one hat it would make me feel better about getting a new hat
oliverjones18
Member
that's true but the interesting thing about indy's hat is that its almost supernatural so it CAN survive all those conditions
StoneTriple
New member
nitzsche said:
And we have a winner.
Stoo
Well-known member
Actually, it implies the opposite.Lonsome_Drifter said:
From pg. 12:"He has favored the fedora since 1912, when a looter crowned him with one."
They key word being "one". He never loses it on an adventure but Indy's had several.
I just noticed on page 23.
"Indy still has the hat the looter, Fedora, gave him four years earlier".
Last edited:
nitzsche said:
Right. Fedora's hat appears to be higher than Indy's in the films,and there's barely any pinch on Fedoras, whereas we know how Indy's looks in LC. And the band is too small.
I think Indy kept Fedora's hat through YIJ and then bought a new one in 1920.
ValenciaGrail
New member
StoneTriple said:And we have a winner.
Well, no...it's not quite that simple.
The POV that the hat is BOTH symbolic and literal is the most compelling one.
Yes, the symbolic is the most important meaning, but that still doesn’t preclude the hats being the same hat. Multiple and simultaneous levels of meaning – literature and symbolic - are common in literature going back to the Bible. Take the Ten Commandments themselves. The primary interpretation is the spiritual and intangible one: these are God’s rules by which one should live one’s life. But Judeo Christian understanding of the story also has a literal component; namely, there really WERE actually stone tablets on which God recorded the Commandments. They were a tangible reminder of God's presence. They were stored…guess where...anyone? Bueller? (Didn’t you guys ever go to Sunday School?)
I have posted in other threads that the hat is rather like Indy’s Horcrux; as it goes, so goes Indy. The times when Indy is in the most grave danger to his life are signaled to the audience by the hat actually coming off:
- In LC, when the tank goes over the cliff, the hat blows off…then serendipitously blows right back to him after he survives.
- In KOTCS, Dovchenko knocks it off his head during the giant ant fight scene…then Indy uses the skull to save it just before it gets carried down the anthole.
GL has even implied in a DVD featurette that the hat parallels Indy himself (although the Horcrux analogy is my addition
); it never comes off his head expect when there is a point to it, such as when Indy is closest to buying the farm. If Indy just keeps buying new hats, the impact of all this would be rather lost.
Think about when IJ reached under the massive closing stone slab in TOD just to get his hat back.
Why would Indy risk becoming the “one armed grave bandit” if he could just replace the dadgummed hat? Hmmm…perhaps if it really were Fedora’s hat, it would be important enough that Indy would go to such lengths to recover it?
To those who say: “It can’t be the same hat because it never would have lasted all those years”, well, I’m dumbfounded at that reasoning….
C’mon, folks… is it any less realistic than the darned thing staying on Indy head during any of 1,000 impossible stunts, starting with being dragged under a truck? Harrison had so much trouble keeping the hat on his head while filming the scenes, there exists a humorous outtake of him stapling it to his head. I just went Cub Scout camping with my seven year old this week, and my fedora won’t remain on my head even during very tame rock scrambling.
And while were on the realism issue: how about the mine car sailing across a break in its tracks and landing on the opposite side, perfectly aligned on the rails and continuing to speed along the tracks? Or photoelectric devices actuating spikes in ancient temples? How do these events compare to a hat lasting for a few decades?
Is it any less realistic that Indy himself survives all the situations, let alone the hat?
Oh, wait…could there be a parallel here somewhere?
The implausibility of IJ’s escapes || The Implausibility of the hat surviving
As the hat goes, so goes IJ….
Once again, the whole parallelism is lost if the hats keep changing.
As far as the “It’s clearly not the same hat” argument – hats can be reshaped with deeper pinches and ribbons can be replaced. That’s a no-brainer. It can be the same hat, but restyled and refurbished according to Indy’s liking over the years. The novelizations even contain indications that Indy had the hat blocked and shaped periodically.
Now all this does NOT prove the hats are the same.
Rather, my only point is that the “different hat appearances” and “implausible durability” arguments are NOT by themselves sufficient evidence AGAINST the hats being the same.
This is rather like a Balrog / Wings debate…JRRT sadly died without leaving us any resolution to the matter in his letters or papers. Perhaps GL could settle this issue of canon before he becomes one with the Force?
BTW: Campbell Black’s novelization of ROTLA does state in the closing scene that Indy actually lost the hat…but this was written prior to the Indyverse growing into the legendarium it is today, so it is of questionable canonicity….
muttjones
New member
ValenciaGrail said:Well, no...it's not quite that simple.
The POV that the hat is BOTH symbolic and literal is the most compelling one.
Yes, the symbolic is the most important meaning, but that still doesn’t preclude the hats being the same hat. Multiple and simultaneous levels of meaning – literature and symbolic - are common in literature going back to the Bible. Take the Ten Commandments themselves. The primary interpretation is the spiritual and intangible one: these are God’s rules by which one should live one’s life. But Judeo Christian understanding of the story also has a literal component; namely, there really WERE actually stone tablets on which God recorded the Commandments. They were a tangible reminder of God's presence. They were stored…guess where...anyone? Bueller? (Didn’t you guys ever go to Sunday School?)
I have posted in other threads that the hat is rather like Indy’s Horcrux; as it goes, so goes Indy. The times when Indy is in the most grave danger to his life are signaled to the audience by the hat actually coming off:
- In LC, when the tank goes over the cliff, the hat blows off…then serendipitously blows right back to him after he survives.
- In KOTCS, Dovchenko knocks it off his head during the giant ant fight scene…then Indy uses the skull to save it just before it gets carried down the anthole.
GL has even implied in a DVD featurette that the hat parallels Indy himself (although the Horcrux analogy is my addition
If Indy just keeps buying new hats, the impact of all this would be rather lost.
Think about when IJ reached under the massive closing stone slab in TOD just to get his hat back.
Why would Indy risk becoming the “one armed grave bandit” if he could just replace the dadgummed hat? Hmmm…perhaps if it really were Fedora’s hat, it would be important enough that Indy would go to such lengths to recover it?
To those who say: “It can’t be the same hat because it never would have lasted all those years”, well, I’m dumbfounded at that reasoning….
C’mon, folks… is it any less realistic than the darned thing staying on Indy head during any of 1,000 impossible stunts, starting with being dragged under a truck? Harrison had so much trouble keeping the hat on his head while filming the scenes, there exists a humorous outtake of him stapling it to his head. I just went Cub Scout camping with my seven year old this week, and my fedora won’t remain on my head even during very tame rock scrambling.
And while were on the realism issue: how about the mine car sailing across a break in its tracks and landing on the opposite side, perfectly aligned on the rails and continuing to speed along the tracks? Or photoelectric devices actuating spikes in ancient temples? How do these events compare to a hat lasting for a few decades?
Is it any less realistic that Indy himself survives all the situations, let alone the hat?
Oh, wait…could there be a parallel here somewhere?
The implausibility of IJ’s escapes || The Implausibility of the hat surviving
As the hat goes, so goes IJ….
Once again, the whole parallelism is lost if the hats keep changing.
As far as the “It’s clearly not the same hat” argument – hats can be reshaped with deeper pinches and ribbons can be replaced. That’s a no-brainer. It can be the same hat, but restyled and refurbished according to Indy’s liking over the years. The novelizations even contain indications that Indy had the hat blocked and shaped periodically.
Now all this does NOT prove the hats are the same.
Rather, my only point is that the “different hat appearances” and “implausible durability” arguments are NOT by themselves sufficient evidence AGAINST the hats being the same.
This is rather like a Balrog / Wings debate…JRRT sadly died without leaving us any resolution to the matter in his letters or papers. Perhaps GL could settle this issue of canon before he becomes one with the Force?
BTW: Campbell Black’s novelization of ROTLA does state in the closing scene that Indy actually lost the hat…but this was written prior to the Indyverse growing into the legendarium it is today, so it is of questionable canonicity….
thankyou for phrasing this argument in the best way possible!!!!
I completely agree with you 100%. why would he save his hat in ToD if that single one had no real significant importance to him.
Willie Scott: "Oh no Indy you lost your hat!"
Indiana Jones: "Its okay. I know a guy who can get me a great deal If I by in bulk."
I dont see it working.
I don't see the scene in Temple where he grabs his hat before the door closes as anything more than the scene where he grabs his whip before the door closes in Raiders.
Why try to save the whip? We know it wasn't the one he used against the lion. He could certainly replace it... so why try to save it?
His whip, like his hat, is part of his gear. If he can save it, then why not?
Why try to save the whip? We know it wasn't the one he used against the lion. He could certainly replace it... so why try to save it?
His whip, like his hat, is part of his gear. If he can save it, then why not?