No love for Crystal Skull on TV

Rocket Surgeon said:

Wow! You really GET me, what are you doing Saturday night? Although I think I'm starting to favor tuna salad a bit more...

Nicely written.

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Hah! Thank you! And I'm pretty big on Tuna salad myself, too. =]

MaxPhactor23 said:

I really dislike when opinions on films that are viewed primarily negatively are dismissed as trendy. It?s just juvenile and opinionated. Because there?s a majority of hatred doesn?t make it mindless, overly-critical, or some sort of fad at all. Instead?here?s a shocking revelation?maybe most people just genuinely think the film is crap. Now there?s an idea! The amount of denial here is?staggering?especially coming from so-called mature adults. In the end, is anyone?s opinion of any film, except your very own, ultimately relevant? Who cares if the entire world hates Crystal Skull? If it was your cup of tea, more power to you! Have a little self confidence. The fact of the matter is that this is an Indiana Jones website. This is the target audience and one might say that this is the one and only place where you?ll find bias opinions on the film, where Indiana Jones will be avidly defended without so much as an original thought. So no, I don?t see a trend, I see denial.



You always were the mature one, Vile! The fact of the matter is that everyone critiques everything on a daily basis. You critique the food you eat, the clothing you decide to wear, the books you read, the films you watch, the roads you take, etc. No one likes every film they've seen, why should they be viewed negatively for something they technically cannot control? Personal taste just...well...is. The difference is that critics do this publically, and why shouldn't they? Why should someone feel bad about how they feel on a certain subject? Do you love cars, sports, gardening, video gaming, guns, politics, chicken salad, and long walks on the beach? I doubt you enjoy them all, why shouldn't you be allowed to say it and the reasons why? So long as it's not a personal attack on those that you don't agree with, speak all you like! Again, how is this somehow a bad thing? It takes a certain amount of courage to face the juvenilely opinioned peoples that crawl out from under their rock and sometimes make personal and hurtful judgments (much like you?re doing) based upon a difference of opinion. I have a great deal more admiration for those that judge films instead of those who judge people based off of their opinions on trivial entertainment. Films don?t have feelings! If you're going to play the insult game, I'll give you an example of my harsh inside feelings on your side of things just to show you how ridiculous you sound; The fact of the matter is that I have more respect for critics then I?ll ever have for dronish defenders that live in their mothers basements, bowing down to their shrines of their Geek Gods like Lucas and Spielberg, pledging their lives to defending their work in between delivering their pizzas. They have the courage to be themselves, not tools of a fanboy. That speaks volumes.

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It reads like the only opinions you actually deem valid are those you agree with. Can one not have an opinion that is positive? Is the whole premise of your argument simply that anyone who actually likes a Lucas/Spielberg movie isn?t being ?themselves?, and that they are merely ?dronish defenders?? If it is, your argument is an extremely poor one. If your underlying sentiment is about the freedom to have an opinion, you've undermined that with your own post... because it sounds like you are not that happy with opinions that differ. To quote... "I really dislike when opinions on films that are viewed primarily negatively are dismissed as trendy. It?s just juvenile and opinionated".. Can you not see the irony in that sentence???

It's also interesting that you mention "denial" when forgetting little things like huge box office, relatively positive media reviews and polls on fan sites such as this. But what's the "reality" when one has an opinion?

Darth Vile said:

It reads like the only opinions you actually deem valid are those you agree with.

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That's not how I read it at all...

Seems like you can't comprehend he's standing up against those who would write off a negative opinion they way you're catagorizing his response...

...just because they don't agree.

Again instead of responding to what he has writen you are compelled to re-state his position, (twisting it unrecognizably) in order to respond, and in doing so are arguing with yourself.

Can you not see the irony in responding to yourself??????????

Rocket Surgeon said:

That's not how I read it at all...

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Of course you wouldn?t... because you ingratiate yourself to anyone willing to give you the time of day. If I'd wanted input from pond life, I?d have gone to the bottom of the garden.

Darth Vile said:

Of course you wouldn’t... because you ingratiate yourself to anyone willing to give you the time of day.

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Huh? Like you sweetheart? What is the weather like up your small intestine? Isn't it time you find a better seat then your own shoulders?

Darth Vile said:

If I'd wanted input from pond life, I’d have gone to the bottom of the garden.

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HA!

MaxPhactor23 said:

You always were the mature one, Vile!

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But the fact remains "Darth", your train of thought has more twists than a bag of pretzels Mr Salty!

Isn't it possible, fellas, that MaxPhactor's critique of people who, perhaps mindlessly, like something that most everyone else likes applies just as well to those who, perhaps mindlessly, dislike something that most everyone else dislikes? And that there's really no reason for the three of you to start acting like the sort of spitefully partisan types that none of you like?

Attila the Professor said:

Isn't it possible, fellas, that MaxPhactor's critique of people who, perhaps mindlessly, like something that most everyone else likes applies just as well to those who, perhaps mindlessly, dislike something that most everyone else dislikes? And that there's really no reason for the three of you to start acting like the sort of spitefully partisan types that none of you like?

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Agreed.

Darth Vile said:

It reads like the only opinions you actually deem valid are those you agree with. Can one not have an opinion that is positive? Is the whole premise of your argument simply that anyone who actually likes a Lucas/Spielberg movie isn’t being “themselves”, and that they are merely “dronish defenders”? If it is, your argument is an extremely poor one. If your underlying sentiment is about the freedom to have an opinion, you've undermined that with your own post... because it sounds like you are not that happy with opinions that differ. To quote... "I really dislike when opinions on films that are viewed primarily negatively are dismissed as trendy. It’s just juvenile and opinionated".. Can you not see the irony in that sentence???

It's also interesting that you mention "denial" when forgetting little things like huge box office, relatively positive media reviews and polls on fan sites such as this. But what's the "reality" when one has an opinion?

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Gosh! How well versed you are...

If you’d actually bother to read my post, you’d clearly see that I blatantly state that everyone should have a right to say whatever they so like and not be frowned upon for it. More power to you, I believe my expression was. That doesn’t mean I’ll agree! How you’re getting that I’m “Not that happy with opinions that differ” seems to stem from deeply seeded illiteracy or perhaps the uncanny ability to see what you desire and not what actually is. You never could rationally debate or, for that matter, think…and clearly I’m not alone in thinking so. That is put on display clearly when a fan boy lives under the delusion that Box Office intake means much of anything toward the overall quality and general consensus of the film in question. How many times must it be said? Money does not determine quality or opinions. And here I’d thought The Phantom Menace proved that a decade ago…but you’d probably claim it’s beloved too, wouldn’t you? Hah! And then claim that polls on an Indiana Jones site, that being the target audience, actually add some zing to the debate. You're not actually under the belief that members here that took part in this poll actually make up more than about 1% of the actual viewing audience that saw the film. Reality indeed!

And apparently I am missing the irony in my statement because it makes perfect sense to me. I’m entirely oblivious to how claiming that someone who would dismiss another’s opinion on a trivial film as merely trendy, blatantly only in defense of said film and their opinionated nature, is ironic. The better question is, how isn’t that juvenile and opinionated? Yet again, we cast judgments every single day. What is and isn’t rationally worthy of negatively judging a man; His opinionated and hurtful behavior…or his feelings on a film? Get real! Don’t make a personal character judgment based off of that persons judgment on an inconsequential movie.

I entirely respect that you liked Crystal Skull. That's wonderful! ...but that doesn't mean I respect how you treat others who disagree and voice their differing opinions. Claiming that anyone that says anything negative about Skull must be some loser Pizza delivery boy without a future will only make people dismiss anything and everything you say. One mans opinions on films is not an accurate way of grading his intellect. Only a moron would think otherwise. And you better bet I'll judge you on how you treat others! That's not called hypocrisy, that's called rational judgment. The people that bash films aren’t the nerds, they can admit to flaws as it’s merely only a film. Why should opinions always be positive on something as trivial as pure entertainment? Once again, have you enjoyed every film you've ever seen? It’s the people that can’t admit to their precious Gods faults that need to…well…get out more. They overvalue unimportant hobbies. Female interaction is recommended, Darth.

MaxPhactor23 said:

Gosh! How well versed you are...

If you’d actually bother to read my post, you’d clearly see that I blatantly state that everyone… etc. etc.

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Firstly, I quoted your opening couple of sentences verbatim (to avoid any confusion). As it was the opening sentence in your post, one assumes it was somewhat central to your point… Paraphrasing, you stated anyone who has an opinion on someone else’s opinion is “juvenile” and “opinionated”. I’m sorry but that’s so paradoxical you could open a rift in the space/time continuum… and if you didn’t mean to state that, you shouldn’t have posted it.

Secondly, in regards to the popularity of KOTCS, I believe you are simply trying to deny the facts that speak for themselves.

1) It did great box office.
2) It received broadly positive reviews… for example ‘rotten tomatoes’ (which provides an average of circa 250 reviews) gave it 77%. They certified it “Fresh”. How does that, in anyone’s eyes, equate to there being a consensus that KOTCS is a poor/bad movie???
3) It may be the “fans” least favourite Indy movie, but that doesn’t automatically equate to the fans disliking or believing it a poor movie (as some try and infer). If this site is anything to go by, the fact of the matter is that the majority of fans liked it.

Thirdly, I have never attacked anyone for simply disliking KOTCS (nor would I). And if you weren’t being so emotional and defensive you’d concede that, on many occasions, I have agreed with some of the criticisms leveled at the movie. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to be honest I don’t care enough about the movie (or any movie) to feel the urge to verbally attack someone or feel compelled to defend it in such a manner. What I will do however (in the spirit of discussion boards such as this) is challenge/question what I believe to be illogical/inaccurate criticisms and/or broad, sweeping and lazy generalizations. I would challenge those regardless of whether I liked the movie or not (I’ve spent years defending TOD).

So in conclusion, I've not heard anything from yourself to support the claim that you are more tolerant and excepting of others views. Sorry.

Crystal Skull is the "Larry the Cable Guy" of Indiana Jones films.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Crystal Skull is the "Larry the Cable Guy" of Indiana Jones films.

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I don't mean to be rude but, how can you even compare that untalented hack to any Indiana Jones film.

avidfilmbuff said:

I don't mean to be rude but, how can you even compare that untalented hack to any Indiana Jones film.

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With the standards offered, very easily. After all:

Darth Vile said:

1) It [He] did great box office.

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With that rationale to support views you can even go so far as to say Larry the Cable Guy is BETTER than Crystal Skull. He was the top earning comedian in 2007, The Dark Night was cinema's number 1 earner.

Rocket Surgeon said:

With the standards offered, very easily. After all:



With that rationale to support views you can even go so far as to say Larry the Cable Guy is BETTER than Crystal Skull. He was the top earning comedian in 2007, The Dark Night was cinema's number 1 earner.

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Oh now come on, even if you do think that Crystal Skull is a bad film, it's nothing compared to something compared to, let's say, Problem Child or the Hottie and the Nottie, now those films you can compare to Larry the Cable Guy. As much as I love the film, I understand it wasn't what some people were expecting, but it's not one of the worst films ever made, not by any stretch.

avidfilmbuff said:

Oh now come on, even if you do think that Crystal Skull is a bad film, it's nothing compared to something compared to, let's say, Problem Child or the Hottie and the Nottie, now those films you can compare to Larry the Cable Guy. As much as I love the film, I understand it wasn't what some people were expecting, but it's not one of the worst films ever made, not by any stretch.

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Denial was mentioned by Max thusly:

Because there’s a majority of hatred doesn’t make it mindless, overly-critical, or some sort of fad at all. Instead…here’s a shocking revelation…maybe most people just genuinely think the film is crap. Now there’s an idea! The amount of denial here is…staggering…especially coming from so-called mature adults. In the end, is anyone’s opinion of any film, except your very own, ultimately relevant?

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My main man Darth Twisty addressed denial by redefining it for his own purposes thusly:

It's also interesting that you mention "denial" when forgetting little things like huge box office,

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As though Max's opinion of those who blithely dismiss those who dislike Crystal Skull can be countered by box office receipts. Max was discussing opinion which Attila attempted to remind us all. Opinion which Darth seems happy to ignore and engage in protracted self endulgence.

Avid, the point seems to be escaping you. I'm not comparing the quality of the films. Quite the contrary. I'm illustrating that a crap movie, (or "star") can generate enough "bank" for it to be popular or successful in it's province. It doesn't follow logically that earnings is a basis for liking a movie, (unless you are an investor of course) or that it's a worthy lead rationale to counter an opinion of art or in this case crap, (followed by "relatively positive media reviews" which he later self servingly redefined as "broadly positive reviews").

Rocket Surgeon said:

Denial was mentioned by Max thusly:


My main man Darth Twisty addressed denial by redefining it for his own purposes thusly:Avid, the point seems to be escaping you. I'm not comparing the quality of the films. Quite the contrary. I'm illustrating that a crap movie, (or "star") can generate enough "bank" for it to be popular or successful in it's province. It doesn't follow logically that earnings is a basis for liking a movie, (unless you are an investor of course) or that it's a worthy lead rationale, (followed by "relatively positive media reviews" which he later self servingly redefined as "broadly positive reviews").

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Oh I see, forgive me for the misunderstanding, I didn't read the previous posts, in that case I agree. There are plenty of mediocre to horrible films which do make an incredible amount of money. I mean look at Titanic, a combination of two cliched films, a cliched forbidden romance film and a cliched disaster movie, yet somehow it's the highest grossing film of all time.

I’d really say more…but between mine and Rockets post, Viles been utterly defeated. Not that you have to try especially difficult to do that. Bravo! I think, at the end of the day, the best message is to like what you like, dislike what you dislike, and most importantly...don't listen to opinionated tools like Vile, who judge your entire existance for not liking the same movies he does as if we're back in grade school. Need I mention get a life? It really goes without saying, ey?

lol, "utterly defeated".........well, I'm glad you're so proud of yourself.

In any event, I don't see any evidence that suggests the "majority" hate Skull. A respectable 6.6 on IMDb, B- on Yahoo ratings, and 77% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes........yet I don't deny there is a large, loyal group that almost religously hate this movie, and in particular, a large community exists on the internet who hate the film. It is because of the internet that we got the silly "nuke the fridge" stuff, which died out quickly.

With a franchise that is as loved and is as classic as Indiana Jones, I can't say it comes as a huge surprise. In particular, I think the Star Wars prequels probably hurt it too - because those movies paved the way for hatred towards George Lucas, CGI, and everyone complaining on the internet.

As a result of this particular trend.........the complaints about 'Crystal Skull' involving George Lucas, Shia LaBouef, CGI, aliens, swinging monkeys, and the refrigerator........it's tiresome, illogical, and indeed, very trendy and fashionable.

In those regards, I very much agree with Vile. But if someone didn't like the movie, and they respectfully, and logically share their opinion.......I don't think they'd find any problems here. Unfortunately, that kind of criticism is extremely rare.

Cole said:

Unfortunately, that kind of criticism is extremely rare.

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True, as is it's respected reception.

you're right.

Cole said:

Maybe you respect an unintelligible reception, but fortunately you don't speak for all of us.

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I respect intelligent critique, not fanboy pissing and tweenie moaning.

Thankfully you do not speak for all of US either.

So much for the olive branch...