General Indy 5 Thread - rumors and possibilities

So, of course, there's now a few possibilities on the table.

A) There's not any new news, and they're just keeping the Indy name - and by extension, their own names - in the public eye.

B) Spielberg's original comment about "genre" was a mistake because it was inaccurate, and he's now correcting it.

C) Spielberg's original comment about "genre" was a mistake because it incited reactions and speculation that they didn't hope for, and he's now correcting it.

Possibility C is the most interesting, by far, but B will probably strike some as perhaps the most likely. Those with more experience tracking Spielberg's statements will be able to say how often he misspeaks in similar fashion. Otherwise, we might need to defer to things like his conversation with John Williams, and its seemingly willful inaccuracies.

Possibility A? I choose not to believe that they're that craven. None of them need help to remain in the public eye, and there's not any Indy merchandising that would benefit from Spielberg's comments.

Anyhow, I'm happy to run with the possibility that Spielberg let on more than he intended. Should keep things interesting around here...

RedeemedChild said:

@Stoo, Oh my bad. I'm sorry. I was so excited that I didn't even check the above post.

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Erm, MORE than the 'above post'. Try tuning in instead of just dropping in. The next time you get "so excited" and grab your WILLIE in haste, it would be a good idea to read the thread's recent discussion.

Anyway, why are you "so excited", Child? *If* Indy 5 does become a reality, you must wait 17 months after opening day to see it like you did with Indy 4!

RedeemedChild said:

I'm a bit puzzled over the 'we've already agreed on the genre of the fifth movie'. Does that mean it's not going to be the typical fare we've normally seen in Indiana Jones? Does it mean it's going to be 'mystery' or 'detective' in the vein that 'Crystal Skull' was Sci-Fi?

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You still haven't read the recent posts? What do you think people have been discussing in this thread over the past 4 days?

Attila the Professor said:

I suppose a fantasy thread is yours to begin, if you want it.

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Attila, please be aware that you're encouraging a thread about, "Indiana Jones and the Skyward Sword". The thought of a Flourescent Indy in a day-glo world isn't very appealing.

Ska said:

In Diana Jones

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Ska, whether you realize it or not, this is an oblique reference to a Jules Verne adventure novel.

Stoo said:

Erm, MORE than the 'above post'. Try tuning in instead of just dropping in. The next time you get "so excited" and grab your WILLIE in haste, it would be a good idea to read the thread's recent discussion.

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I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Stoo said:

Anyway, why are you "so excited", Child? *If* Indy 5 does become a reality, you must wait 17 months after opening day to see it like you did with Indy 4!

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But to this: give it a rest, will ya?

Stoo said:

Attila, please be aware that you're encouraging a thread about, "Indiana Jones and the Skyward Sword". The thought of a Flourescent Indy in a day-glo world isn't very appealing.

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I can rename threads. And it wouldn't need to stay related to the original post. But we should get a few more genres on the table.

Besides, asking people for more than they usually give is a much better approach then assuming there's nothing more to begin with.

Anything to say about the rumor, Stoo? Or do you just feel like policing people's posting habits?

Looks like George and Steven have finally settled on a MacGuffin.

@Stoo, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd stop making me fun of my old behavior. I'm not in a laughing mood as I'm quite serious about the future of the Indiana Jones franchise.

As much as I am happy to see Spielberg discussing Indiana Jones I'm also a bit worried. Is Spielberg toying with us Indiana Jones fans? I mean I only see him talking about Indiana Jones and not George Lucas, Harrison Ford and Shia LaBeouf. Also, for crying out loud Harrison Ford is continuing to age and I'm wondering if this is going to be a take place in the timeline after Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and if so will Mutt have a greater role? Or is this going to be a prequel with a younger Indiana Jones? I mean I'd believe Steven Spielberg a lot more if he gave more concrete information instead of making errors and correcting them again later. It's more like something fishy is going on here.

At first I'd allowed myself to believe that The Adventures of TinTin was a surefire indication that we'd get another Indiana Jones under production by the third quarter of 2012 but now I'm not so sure. I want to remain optimistic and I'm trying but things are getting a bit stretched out. Perhaps Lucas needs to relinquish all rights and ownership of the Indiana Jones franchise and let Spielberg handle it as I think Spielberg would definitely put Indy V into high gear production. I think George Lucas could care less about Indiana Jones as Star Wars is his sandbox and love.

Stoo said:

The thought of a Flourescent Indy in a day-glo world isn't very appealing.

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Interesting. Throw Indy into a Hot Tub Time Machine and see what happens...

Mungi said:

"No, no, no," he told The Playlist during press rounds this weekend. "It's not a new genre at all. [All the 'Indiana Jones' films], they're all the same genre. It's all the same genre."

So what had he meant with his earlier comment? "It's just the MacGuffin that changes. The MacGuffin was the Ark of the Covenent in 'Raiders,' the Holy Grail in 'The Last Crusade,' and the skull in 'The Crystal Skull.' That's what always changes, and that's what we always look for."

Spielberg said that the MacGuffin for Indy 5 has been determined, but that the story is still being worked out. How's it going? "We're hopeful," he said.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...-genre-of-film-wont-change-but-macguffin-will

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The report in full for posterity...

Steven Spielberg Clarifies 'Indiana Jones 5' Comments; Says Genre Of Film Won't Change, But MacGuffin Will

by Jen Vineyard | December 5, 2011

A lot of people have been reading a lot of meaning into something Steven Spielberg said recently. Addressing the return of "Indiana Jones" in a fifth movie, the director told Entertainment Weekly recently that he'd clashed with George Lucas and Harrison Ford about "genre and concept" in the fourth film, "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull," but that for the fifth, he said Lucas and he "already have agreed on the genre." Genre? What?

Given that the Indiana Jones films seem to be a genre unto themselves -- action/adventure movies with a vintage cliffhanger-serials feel and a light sprinkling of the supernatural -- does that mean the formula is in for some major revisions? Maybe even a stronger turn toward sci-fi? (Although that would seem unlikely, given Harrison Ford's recent avowal that he "ain't going to Mars.") So on Sunday, while promoting his forthcoming film "War Horse," the director took a moment to clarify things.

"No, no, no," he told The Playlist during press rounds this weekend. "It's not a new genre at all. [All the 'Indiana Jones' films], they're all the same genre. It's all the same genre."

So what had he meant with his earlier comment? "It's just the MacGuffin that changes. The MacGuffin was the Ark of the Covenent in 'Raiders,' the Holy Grail in 'The Last Crusade,' and the skull in 'The Crystal Skull.' That's what always changes, and that's what we always look for."

Spielberg said that the MacGuffin for Indy 5 has been determined, but that the story is still being worked out. How's it going? "We're hopeful," he said. So keep your fingers crossed folks, but this one will be a bit of a long way coming. Spielberg still has "Lincoln" and "Robopocalypse" to knock out first.

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Attila the Professor said:

So, of course, there's now a few possibilities on the table.

A) There's not any new news, and they're just keeping the Indy name - and by extension, their own names - in the public eye.

B) Spielberg's original comment about "genre" was a mistake because it was inaccurate, and he's now correcting it.

C) Spielberg's original comment about "genre" was a mistake because it incited reactions and speculation that they didn't hope for, and he's now correcting it.

Possibility C is the most interesting, by far, but B will probably strike some as perhaps the most likely. Those with more experience tracking Spielberg's statements will be able to say how often he misspeaks in similar fashion. Otherwise, we might need to defer to things like his conversation with John Williams, and its seemingly willful inaccuracies.

Possibility A? I choose not to believe that they're that craven. None of them need help to remain in the public eye, and there's not any Indy merchandising that would benefit from Spielberg's comments.

Anyhow, I'm happy to run with the possibility that Spielberg let on more than he intended. Should keep things interesting around here...

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Talk of Indy 5 by the players involved with Indy 4 has been dogged by a sense of insincerity due to their vague comments which conveyed more about their hope for another film than the actuality of one.

We've heard so often that 'George is working on a story', and now Spielberg comes out with something more specific. Which he's had to retract. Since he was specific, and it would be unusual for a director to misuse the word 'genre', the evidence points to Article C. Yet, at the same time I'm still getting a feeling that the hopefulness attached to Article A is still at large.

Attila the Professor said:

...we should get a few more genres on the table.

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IMDB's list of genres to pick from:

Action

Adventure

Animation

Biography

Comedy

Crime

Documentary

Drama

Family

Fantasy

Film-Noir

Game-Show

History

Horror

Music

Musical

Mystery

News

Reality-TV

Romance

Sci-Fi

Sport

Talk-Show

Thriller

War

Western

Well, here's my assessment of which of these actually merit any consideration on our end. Those which are rightfully considered either essential to the Indiana Jones concept or those that are aspects of most films despite being genres on their own are also excluded, along with those that don't seem to have anything for us to hang onto as possibilities.

I've removed outright the television and documentary genres (talk-show, game-show, music, etc.)

Montana Smith said:

IMDB's list of genres to pick from:

<del>Action</del>
<del>Adventure</del>
<del>Animation</del>
<del>Biography</del>
<del>Comedy</del>
Crime
<del>Drama</del>
<del>Family</del>
Fantasy
Film-Noir
<del>History</del>
Horror
<del>Musical</del>
Mystery
<del>Romance</del>
Sci-Fi
<del>Sport</del>
Thriller
War
Western

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That leaves us with 9 remaining from this list.

Crime: Not necessarily a genre worth pursuing on its own, but the world of crime certainly offers potentially compelling villains and unsavory associates for Dr. Jones. 1950s/1960s mob anyone?

Fantasy: Not my bag, and we've already done the chivalric bit in Last Crusade. Hopefully this doesn't show up. However, if we really want to push things in a new direction with the "gross out" scene, we could play the Infernal Machine "Quetzalcoatl's a giant snake!" card with a dragon.

Film Noir: A long, long standing possibility for an Indy film whose time has probably passed, since we already had an Indy who was sad after years of loss. Here's plenty of brain-storming from back in the day, even if it means exposing you all to the Attila and Pale Horse of 2003.

Horror: Currently being discussed here, this is certainly one of the more compelling possibilities on the table, not least because there's a lot of different things it might mean. Discussion has focused on the zombies and haunted house possibilities thus far; there's ample room to explore both monster movies and things oriented more towards Hammer's distinctive way of doing horror, which might prove a corrective to Kaminski's washed-out look we met in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Mystery: Not really a genre with much to offer apart from the above mentioned crime and film noir possibilities, we've nevertheless mentioned the possibility of Indy shifting towards more evident mental work to be able to dial down, however slightly, the level of the action. We also saw a mystery-oriented tendency at work in certain sections of the fourth film, particularly Oxley's two old haunts in Peru.

Sci-Fi: Well, we've seen this one already, and commentary from both the director and the star indicate we shan't pass this way again. But there is more than just aliens to science fiction. We can count the Bermuda Triangle possibility. Also time travel, possibly with a religious twist.

Thriller: Which, since we're looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s, is also known as the Hitchcockian option. Like mystery, a strong way to offer some excitement that isn't reliant on Harrison Ford risking life and limb a few times each reel. The Hitchcockian notion appeared in spades in the first act of Darabont's script.

War: I might have included history further up the list too, since the fourth film suggests some greater tendency to take into account current events. While we won't see Indy in battle, maybe U.S./Cuban relations will show up. Or Southeast Asia. Or Russia again. Or that old idea bandied about here of Indy getting stuck between two opposing forces, complete with some rogue American agent or colonel.

Western: I hope not. We've had Indy in the American Southwest in two films in a row now, and numerous other times as we've recently counted, and certainly won't be seeing him there again. Spielberg's had his chance at Ford-style imagery, and it's related form of composition, Leanian epic, in the Indy films already.

So there's some places to start further conversation. And, obviously, there are subgenres of many of these that bear consideration; breaking down horror in particular might be fruitful.

Attila the Professor said:

War: I might have included history further up the list too, since the fourth film suggests some greater tendency to take into account current events. While we won't see Indy in battle, maybe U.S./Cuban relations will show up. Or Southeast Asia. Or Russia again. Or that old idea bandied about here of Indy getting stuck between two opposing forces, complete with some rogue American agent or colonel.

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The South-East Asia angle could have legs - Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia

Wiki said:

American military advisors arrived in what was then French Indochina beginning in 1950. U.S. involvement escalated in the early 1960s, with troop levels tripling in 1961 and tripling again in 1962.

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Throw in an archaeological discovery that needs protecting, and a menacing jungle-dwelling cult protecting it.

But Indy has possibly had enough of jungles, and needs to go somewhere snowier and icier. Zombies ambling slowly through frozen forests. Cabins in the woods. An abandoned gold mine where a new prospector has turned up some strange finds. And the tunnels go deeper and deeper, beyond the mine workings into a creepy environment that may still be inhabited...

Montana Smith said:

The South-East Asia angle could have legs - Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia



Throw in an archaeological discovery that needs protecting, and a menacing jungle-dwelling cult protecting it.

But Indy has possibly had enough of jungles...

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Yeah, I'm afraid so. There's still new things to be done with them, but just in terms of visuals, it's a little old hat by now.

Montana Smith said:

...and needs to go somewhere snowier and icier. Zombies ambling slowly through frozen forests. Cabins in the woods. An abandoned gold mine where a new prospector has turned up some strange finds. And the tunnels go deeper and deeper, beyond the mine workings into a creepy environment that may still be inhabited...

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Apart from being on the record as for a snowbound portion of the film, this tunnels thing is excellent. I'm not sure they could spend much time on it, since Raiders did being sealed underground and Temple did a massive underground complex, but old-fashioned, timber-supported mines are one heck of a visual.

I defo would like to see something more snowbound... and something more seabound for Indiana Jones (2 locales never fully explored). I also still like the idea of a Scottish castle in the highlands (although we saw a re-work for TLC)... or something linked to Neolithic sites in Britain... and all the visuals they could get out of that. Not particularly exotic I know, but could be dramatic.

Darth Vile said:

I defo would like to see something more snowbound... and something more seabound for Indiana Jones (2 locales never fully explored).

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Something from serials: a ship transporting wild animals caught in a typhoon. Cages break open and Indy has deja vu facing a lion and a few tigers below decks.

Darth Vile said:

I also still like the idea of a Scottish castle in the highlands (although we saw a re-work for TLC)... or something linked to Neolithic sites in Britain... and all the visuals they could get out of that. Not particularly exotic I know, but could be dramatic.

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We do fog quite well. (As Goscinny and Uderzo knew when they did Asterix in Britain!)

Montana Smith said:

Something from serials: a ship transporting wild animals caught in a typhoon. Cages break open and Indy has deja vu facing a lion and a few tigers below decks.

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...and ebola monkeys!

Rocket Surgeon said:

...and ebola monkeys!

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He'll have to get Mutt to round them up before they bring about the end of the world!

Montana Smith said:

He'll have to get Mutt to round them up before they bring about the end of the world!

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Maybe the end of Mutt would be a great way to start?

Rocket Surgeon said:

Maybe the end of Mutt would be a great way to start?

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It would... but we know in our heart of hearts that he'll be in the movie throughout.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Maybe the end of Mutt would be a great way to start?

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Bitten in the first minute. Shot in the head by Indy in the second minute.

Now the audience knows there's something really threatening in this movie.

First off, I want to say my hat is off to Attila for such a wonderful post. This post got me thinking a lot about the different possibilities Indy V could go in, and it's very fun to explore each one of them.
I hope by his post that we can get the boulder rolling (pun intended) and poke a stick into every crevice.

Attila the Professor said:

Crime: Not necessarily a genre worth pursuing on its own, but the world of crime certainly offers potentially compelling villains and unsavory associates for Dr. Jones. 1950s/1960s mob anyone?

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The mob could be one possibility. And, besides being grounded in reality to the mob of that era, there could be highly stylized and over-the-top group of villains à la the earlier James Bond films.
I think we came close to seeing Indy deal with a group of criminals during the opening scene of ToD. But, would an Indy adventure centered around crime carry it's own weight?

Fantasy: Not my bag, and we've already done the chivalric bit in Last Crusade. Hopefully this doesn't show up. However, if we really want to push things in a new direction with the "gross out" scene, we could play the Infernal Machine "Quetzalcoatl's a giant snake!" card with a dragon.

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While thinking of fantasy for an Indy film, I don't see things like elves, dwarves, or trolls. A search for Excalibur for example could be considered a fantasy element if it touched on Arthurian undertones.
Perhaps visiting other legends and myths would be fun to see on screen. We have many in the books and comics, but I don't see why they couldn't be revamped for film.
Excalibur is one example, and the Golden Fleece could be another.
The search for Atlantis could be fantasy also, unless they went for the sci-fi approach and have the city being advanced even beyond our own culture.

But, what of having small touches of fantasy in the film? Even if they were outlandish? A living, breathing unicorn in a glade, the skeleton of a long-dead dragon in it's lair, or even a band of skeleton guards around a tomb?

Sci-Fi: Well, we've seen this one already, and commentary from both the director and the star indicate we shan't pass this way again. But there is more than just aliens to science fiction. We can count the Bermuda Triangle possibility. Also time travel, possibly with a religious twist.

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Yes, there are tons more to sci-fi than just aliens. While I'm not a huge fan of sci-fi, there could be some good ideas if one looks hard enough.
Bermuda Triangle, my aforementioned quip about Atlantis, the Tunguska Event. Just please refrain from saying those things had anything to do with aliens, Lucas!

War: I might have included history further up the list too, since the fourth film suggests some greater tendency to take into account current events. While we won't see Indy in battle, maybe U.S./Cuban relations will show up. Or Southeast Asia. Or Russia again. Or that old idea bandied about here of Indy getting stuck between two opposing forces, complete with some rogue American agent or colonel.

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Do you think the film could pull off Indiana being in Korea during the Korean War? Other than endless jungles, there were plenty of frozen, and snowy places there. It would provide a new environment as well have Indy in the East again.
Or Indiana could be looking for an Hattian artifact, and somehow got wrapped up in the Cuba/U.S. struggle? Lots of places to stick in an ocean/sea adventure for those who wish it.

Western: I hope not. We've had Indy in the American Southwest in two films in a row now, and numerous other times as we've recently counted, and certainly won't be seeing him there again. Spielberg's had his chance at Ford-style imagery, and it's related form of composition, Leanian epic, in the Indy films already.

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It would be pretty hard to do a Western during the 50s/60s in an American setting. But, Indy could be in the Outback, and have a good portion of the adventure set there. Gun-slinging, fighting from horseback, lonesome campfires under the stars. It could all work in the Outback.

Western? Thats very interesting. Its interesting that Spielberg has never actually done one, surely its on his to do list as a huge fan of The Searchers etc.

Darth Vile said:

It would... but we know in our heart of hearts that he'll be in the movie throughout.

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You know, I know it's kinda inevitable that Mr. Beef's going to be in the movie and get plenty of screentime.

But all I want is Harrison to take the lead again and his sidekicks to have to rely on and look up to him, like (young) Marion, Shorty, Willie and his Dad did.
I think the fact, that there weren't really any persons he had to take care of (except Marion at times) was one of the main reasons KOTCS felt different. Something was just missing. There need to be more 'Indyyy'-yelling moments.