Disney vs. Paramount

Le Saboteur

Active member
Moedred said:
Any suggestions what to rename this thread of posts before and after the Disney/Paramount participation deal? 'Budgeting Indy 5'? Something cumbersome and wonky... Le Sab?

I had forgotten about this request. While I still find a fair amount of use for the original thread title, I have oft thought about starting a thread for finding a viable way forward; 'Indiana Jones: The Way Forward' if you will. Feel free to use it if you'd like.

Financials are obviously important, but they've been discussed at length. Other questions, for example, are of equal importance:

1.) The Question of "the Exotic". If exoticism is largely a matter of distance followed by ignorance how does one proceed in an inter-connected society?

2.) The term used eludes me at the moment, but there's a thought process in Hollywood that basically states that your production budget must be equal or greater than your competition to compete. At what point does throwing money at a Indiana Jones picture produce diminishing returns? In short, how much money is too much?

3.) Indiana Jones was created by and for a Western audience. With an increasingly focus on the international market how do you engage them (and sustain that interest) over a couple of movies? Actors? Locations? Macguffins?

And so on and so forth.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Disney is penciling in 2020. Still room for Indy...
Le Saboteur said:
Indiana Jones was created by and for a Western audience. With an increasingly focus on the international market how do you engage them
Taken 3 is pretty much west versus east, and collected an overseas share similar to Furious 7. Same with Expendables 3, a franchise being kept alive like Terminator by foreign receipts. Maybe the secret is casting old guys who collect 7-figure checks for Japanese whiskey ads?
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Here it is, the green eyeshade thread, which went far beyond which studio takes home how much money. Since PLT Productions incorporated in 2016, there has been much filing activity:

17 Aug 2017 - Accounts for a dormant company
20 Sep 2018 - Accounts for a dormant company
14 Oct 2019 - Accounts for a dormant company
12 May 2021 - Accounts for a small company
24 Sep 2021 - Previous accounting period extended (Ford's injury?)
14 Sep 2022 - Full accounts

From the full accounts document: "The directors consider the company's key financial performance indicator to be whether the film is completed in line with the production budget. At the period end, the final cost was forecasted to be in line with the adjusted production budget." Disney is referred to as "the ultimate parent company."

Cost of sales for the period ending 05 June 2021: 48,115,049 pounds.
Cost of sales for the period ending 01 April 2021: 186,942,665 pounds.

Of all the planned years to film Indy in the UK, 2021 was probably the worst for the USD to pound exchange rate, yielding just over 70 pence for a dollar, or 14 shillings if you fancy a bob for the whatnot. It's around 90 pence right now.

Anyway, no guarantees I'm reading this document properly. I'm aware they filmed in other countries, possibly not reflected here. Robert Meyer Burnett said last month he "heard the budget was $300 million, for the extended period of time that they shot" so we'll probably hear more about that next year.
 

IndyForever

Active member
$300m plus marketing most likely but I think it will easily whip past $1bn & get closer to $2bn as the last Ford Indy movie so they already pretty much got all their budget back plus a massive profit :whip:
 

Nerdpants

Well-known member
$300m plus marketing most likely but I think it will easily whip past $1bn & get closer to $2bn as the last Ford Indy movie so they already pretty much got all their budget back plus a massive profit :whip:
Predicting a 1 billion dollar film is one thing.. but saying that it will close to $2 billion.. that's a big big call.

Not many films have ever done this. If you look at the ratio of Crystal Skull between budget and box office.. you could not extrapolate to $2 billion for this film.

Skull.. which many thought would be the last Indy (including film makers to some degree).. cost $185 million and box office was $790 million.

That means it made back 4.27 times its budget

Let's assume Indy 5 cost $300 million due to production delays and going through development hell. Multiplying it out by the same amount.. it would make $1.287 billion.

If it's a really good film and gets good word of mouth (say 85% or over on rotten tomato critical score) perhaps it could get up to $1.5 billion.

Imo, that is a big ask and I think that this type of film may not necessarily even get to a billion due to it being a legacy sequel and public view of having an 80 year old Ford play Indy.
 

Face_Melt

Well-known member
Predicting a 1 billion dollar film is one thing.. but saying that it will close to $2 billion.. that's a big big call.

Not many films have ever done this. If you look at the ratio of Crystal Skull between budget and box office.. you could not extrapolate to $2 billion for this film.

Skull.. which many thought would be the last Indy (including film makers to some degree).. cost $185 million and box office was $790 million.

That means it made back 4.27 times its budget

Let's assume Indy 5 cost $300 million due to production delays and going through development hell. Multiplying it out by the same amount.. it would make $1.287 billion.

If it's a really good film and gets good word of mouth (say 85% or over on rotten tomato critical score) perhaps it could get up to $1.5 billion.

Imo, that is a big ask and I think that this type of film may not necessarily even get to a billion due to it being a legacy sequel and public view of having an 80 year old Ford play Indy.
I think it’s guaranteed to make a billion, but I can’t see it making over 1.5.

Indy 4’s 790 million would be over a billion today after inflation.
 

maybebutnottoday

Active member
on open day black adam brought in 26 million dollars. i think it was on the same date as indy 5 and some were saying who will beat who. i read them and laugh at them. indy 5 will be among the best adventures of the last 30 years and will bring receipts between star wars 8 and jurassic world 1 i.e. 1.3 to 1.5 billion dollars
 

Face_Melt

Well-known member
on open day black adam brought in 26 million dollars. i think it was on the same date as indy 5 and some were saying who will beat who. i read them and laugh at them. indy 5 will be among the best adventures of the last 30 years and will bring receipts between star wars 8 and jurassic world 1 i.e. 1.3 to 1.5 billion dollars
No idea why so many people doubt Indy’s box office take.

I will say though, this year was light in big blockbusters and next summer is packed. It would have made more releasing around this time I think.
 

Benny_Archer

Active member
$300m plus marketing most likely but I think it will easily whip past $1bn & get closer to $2bn as the last Ford Indy movie so they already pretty much got all their budget back plus a massive profit :whip:
Aright, I am BEGGING you guys to go read some social media replies and opinions about Indy 5 OUTSIDE of Indy-centered fans chats and groups. It is extremely negative. A big, big audience is completely disinterested in this movie. It’s not Marvel or Star Wars. This community is a pretty niche community of fans. How bout we see what the reactions to the trailer is first before we start saying it’s gonna be the 5th highest grossing movie ever
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Aright, I am BEGGING you guys to go read some social media replies and opinions about Indy 5 OUTSIDE of Indy-centered fans chats and groups. It is extremely negative. A big, big audience is completely disinterested in this movie. It’s not Marvel or Star Wars. This community is a pretty niche community of fans. How bout we see what the reactions to the trailer is first before we start saying it’s gonna be the 5th highest grossing movie ever
I have to agree with you. Even among people I know who mostly enjoyed the original trilogy, the reaction upon hearing about Indy 5 has largely been, “Oh, jeez, seriously? Why?”
I think KOTCS has left many people thinking the series is best left as a trilogy of 80s films.
Also, I clearly remember before KOTCS came out, the comments on this site were overly optimistic, with people saying things like, “KOTCS will DEFINITELY be the bigger hit than The Dark Knight and Iron Man!” And we know how that turned out.
So for now, I’m just hoping that I’LL thoroughly enjoy Indy 5, but I’m not going to blindly say that it’ll be a huge success among the general public. I really think this film’s success will need to rely on positive word of mouth than any of the previous Indy sequels needed to.
 

Face_Melt

Well-known member
Aright, I am BEGGING you guys to go read some social media replies and opinions about Indy 5 OUTSIDE of Indy-centered fans chats and groups. It is extremely negative. A big, big audience is completely disinterested in this movie. It’s not Marvel or Star Wars. This community is a pretty niche community of fans. How bout we see what the reactions to the trailer is first before we start saying it’s gonna be the 5th highest grossing movie ever
Just wait until the trailer drops. That will change things pretty fast.
 

Nerdpants

Well-known member
Other series such has Terminator have suffered franchise ending decline in box office numbers as a result of badly received films.

Indy 4 was not received great at the time and that contempt has only gotten stronger with time.

As such, it would be fair to conclude there is a possibility that thr box office performance of Indy 5 may suffered due to the reception of Indy 4.
 

maybebutnottoday

Active member
I don't agree that indy 4 wasn't well received.let's not forget that it was the second highest grossing movie of all time on memorial day,5 movie of all time in the first 5 days and 23 of all time in worldwide box office till 2008.in worldwide box office outside America it came out first, while in America it was the third film with a difference of 1 million with iron man and about 110 million with the dark knight which is a masterpiece. after they saw it in the cinema it had a theme and not many people went by word of mouth because it wasn't that much good movie. i'm sticking with 1.3 to 1.5 billion dollars
 

Yure

Well-known member
Let's not forget the Top Gun: Maverick effect.
If a movie is a good movie and has a huge heritage albeit not a large fanbase, it can do exceptionally well.

A solid story, a brilliant execution, good reviews and substantial word of mouth contribution can make the 1.5bn an easy target.
 

Nerdpants

Well-known member
The number of films that have grossed over $1.5 billion can be counted on two hands.. I.e. a total of 10 movies.

Granted this is a tentpole movie, but I can't see it getting this high. I don't think it had an extra wow factor that could do it.

It would probably take the casting of another ultra famous actor to co-star against Ford. Whilst it is a great cast, don't have anyone that's a mega star that would draw even the most sceptical to the movie theatre
 
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