Volume Three, The Years of Change

Adamwankenobi

New member
The Tingler said:
Question though: have you played Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis? It won't be used as a criticism or anything, I'm just curious.

No, but I've heard a lot about it, and it sounds cool. I'm gonna have to track it down soon. :)

The Tingler said:
I like Episode II-III despite acknowledging that they are nowhere near the standard of Eps IV-VI

Return of the Jedi is, in my opinion, overrated. I've always felt that a lot of fans give it a free pass just because it finishes off the original trilogy.

I rank the films like this:

1. The Phantom Menace
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Attack of the Clones
6. Return of the Jedi
 

The Tingler

New member
The only reason I asked about Fate is that I'm into the games almost as much as the films. It's hard to find, but definitely worth it, if a little old-looking now. Although Infernal Machine is more relevant to Indy IV, what with it being the only other time Russians were used as villains!

I rank the films like this:

1. The Phantom Menace
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Attack of the Clones
6. Return of the Jedi

Eep. I can just about believe you think Ep 1 is a good film, but the best of all of them? I think you (and I don't believe I'm about to say this) have a slightly rose-tinted nostalgic view of TPM because it was the first one you saw. It is not the best Star Wars film. Can people please back me up on that at least?
 

Indy Smith

New member
I was about to ask if anyone saw Forest Whitaker in Mystery of the Blues, but the Mystery is solved for me as it is not Forest, but his brother Damon. They're very alike though.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
The Tingler said:
I think you (and I don't believe I'm about to say this) have a slightly rose-tinted nostalgic view of TPM because it was the first one you saw.

Nope. I like it best for pretty much the same reasons people like the original film: it's got that pure, unadulterated childlike gee-wiz feel to it. I like its cautious, but carefree tone and goofy sense of humor. Jar Jar and Young Anakin brings a sense of optimism to things. And because of this, I find it the most fun of the six films to watch. :)

The Tingler said:
It is not the best Star Wars film.

I never said The Phantom Menace is the best of the films, I said it was my favorite. The Empire Strikes Back was clearly a better made film overall.
 

The Tingler

New member
I like it best for pretty much the same reasons people like the original film: it's got that pure, unadulterated childlike gee-wiz feel to it. I like its cautious, but carefree tone and goofy sense of humor. Jar Jar and Young Anakin brings a sense of optimism to things.

It's also crap.

But I'm not in the best of moods right now so I'll leave this argument until later.
 

Flannery10

New member
The Tingler said:
It's also crap.

But I'm not in the best of moods right now so I'll leave this argument until later.

Nah, Nah, let's all calm down a little. I never really had a problem with how Episode I was made. I guess it just fails to have the same style as the original trilogy, perhaps a little like Indiana Jones and Young Indy.

Jar-Jar Binks was pretty funny and if I had a problem seeing Darth Vader as a little boy, I couldn't say that I like the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, since they are both showing the childhood of a character, who we know, will survive the movies (or the series for Young Indy.)

Besides you said a couple of posts ago, that we should stop arguing about Star Wars, so let's do that.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
The Tingler said:
It's also crap.

But I'm not in the best of moods right now so I'll leave this argument until later.

Well, that's your opinion (as well as a lot of people's), but it's not mine. I love Episode I, no matter what other people might think of it. :cool:
 

ReggieSnake

New member
It was watching Darth Vader roll around on the ground in a flowery meadow that got to me.:sick:

I think Adam's view is not an abnormal one, a good friend of mine saw PM first, and it is his favorite as well. I think I'm just slightly younger than Adam, but I saw them in release order. SW blew me away like no movie will probably ever again; I got up early the very next morning to watch it a second time. ESB remains my favorite SW movie, as well as one of my all time favorite movies. I really enjoyed PM when I saw it, and I liked Jar-Jar fine. The whole environment of the Star Wars universe seemed to go bland with AotC, much more so that PM could possibly do anyway.

Now, an attempt tie this into the thread topic:rolleyes: ...

I think it would be very possible for someone to think YIJ bland if they did not have an interest in history. Actually, it would be kind of like trying to watch a movie that was filled with jokes referring to other movies you had not seen - certainly not very entertaining. Luckily, I love history.:gun:
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Matinee Idyll said:
You've created a monster!!!

No-Darth_Vader.jpg


:p
 

TalonCard

Member
The Tingler said:
Let's not get into a Star Wars debate, this is not the place or the thread! I will just say that you are the first (presuming TalonCard likes it too) people, online OR offline, I've met that have actually liked that film.

Guilty as charged. ;) I really liked the first three films, in much the same way I really liked the Indiana Jones movies or the Back to the Future movies (don't worry; always thought Star Wars was better than the last), but it was Episode I that made me a committed (in whatever sense of the word you'd prefer ;)) Star Wars fan.

The Tingler said:
If anything perception of that film has gone downhill since release - it got quite good reviews at the time, now it gets on Worst Film Of All Time lists.

Meh. Many of those lists are made by the very Star Wars fans who were dissapointed in the movie because it didn't live up to whatever expectations they had. If nothing else, the amazing visuals, costumes, and music would keep it off a realistic "Worst Film of All Time" list. Although now that I've said that, I'm trying to justify whether or not to remove Cutthroat Island from the list on those grounds...help! ;)

The Tingler said:
Will this happen with Indy IV, that backlash? The expectations of a god-like return to form being inevitably crushed? Probably, but I'm just hoping for a good Indiana Jones film.

Who knows? If Lucas, Spielburg, Ford, and Williams have all signed off on it, it's hard to imagine the actual movie being bad. It all depends on whether or not people can appreciate a "good Indiana Jones film" anymore. I know a lot of people weren't/aren't happy with "Temple of Doom"--but it's not a bad Indiana Jones film, it just doesn't have some of the elements that Raiders and Crusade do, IMO.

So we'll see. My mom's an old school Indiana Jones fan: archeology student in the 80s, went to see all of the trilogy in the theaters, adores the character, the whole nine yards. I showed her the second trailer the other day, and she was ecstatic. "Is that the warehouse?!" and "Oh my gosh--it's her?!" She wanted to watch it three times more. I think we'll be safe if the movie pleases the older fans like that.

Adamwankenobi said:
Return of the Jedi is, in my opinion, overrated. I've always felt that a lot of fans give it a free pass just because it finishes off the original trilogy.

Very few of the serious fans gave it a free pass until the prequels came out and they decided that they didn't hate the Ewoks as much as anything in Phantom Menace. Personally, ROTJ is one of my favorites.

The Tingler said:
Eep. I can just about believe you think Ep 1 is a good film, but the best of all of them? I think you (and I don't believe I'm about to say this) have a slightly rose-tinted nostalgic view of TPM because it was the first one you saw. It is not the best Star Wars film. Can people please back me up on that at least?

I'll back you on that, and put forth my (albeit pleasent) surprise that anyone in this day and age would admit that TPM was their favorite Star Wars movie. Although honestly, aside from Empire, the other five movies rank equally as my favorites. (Though ANH gets special credit for being the first Star Wars movie--once you start getting additional films in a series, the whole dynamic changes.) I think it's because my lack of rose-tinted nostalgia for the original trilogy balances out with my strong sense of nostalgia for the prequels. By the time I finally got to see A New Hope, Lucas was already working on the prequels.

TC
 

Young Indy

New member
I just got Volume 3. I have been watching the Young Indy series from the beginning on DVD. I saw a little bit of it on its release but was to young to really watch it. Over all I love it. Many good episodes and few not as good but, very entertaining. I personally enjoy the re-edited episodes compared to what I have seen of the Chronicles on youtube(admittedly in a few of the episodes the bridging segments can get ackward in volume one). I have watched Tales of Innocence(twice) and Masks of Evil so far. The first has some very humorous moments and I love the romance. It also takes risks with the romance with the older woman Edith in North Africa. I loved the duel at the end as well. Masks of Evil was very creepy and I enjoyed the supernatural element in it that the films have. I thought vampires could get ackward but it was pretty cool actually. I do wish the fight with Vlad the Impaler could have been a little cooler though. These are the last of the episodes that deal with the first world war. I loved that part of the series because it is an interesting point in history that is in not that many films. Watching this series only makes me wish more that it would of continued at least a little while longer. It is kind of ackward to go from "Holloywood Follies" to Temple of Doom! I wish the series could of gotten to the early and mid 20's to bridge the gap more when he starts to become a archaeologists.

By the way I love The Phantom Menace! Great flick!
 

The Tingler

New member
There you go, it takes Young Indy himself to drag this thread back on topic! My only annoyance with Masks of Evil is that it wasn't one of the movie-length stories, so the actual Dracula portion of the story feels very short.

Just quickly, we'll stop the Star Wars debate, except:
Personally, ROTJ is one of my favorites.
Me too. Jabba The Hutt and the Emperor were just brilliant, and while the Ewoks are in it too much I actually found them quite amusing mostly, and when one was killed and his friend mourns I was quite moved. There's nothing like that in the Battle of Naboo. And before you ask, I'm not quite old enough to have seen it at the cinema. Like I said a while ago, I only think I saw Last Crusade at the cinema, and that was 6 years later.

Anyway, there was something Young Indy-related I wanted to respond to several pages ago before we got sidetracked -

Crack that whip said:
Well, see, Lawrence and Roosevelt were pretty adventurous guys in their own right, and in real life to boot, and I think Indy hanging with them is cool as all get-out, certainly not boring.

Lawrence I like, but YIJC portrays Roosevelt as a man who did his very best to make the world's endangered species that little bit more endangered. I got a very negative opinion of him after watching that episode.
 

phantom train

New member
I just finished "The Winds of Change", which was composed of "Paris 1919" and "Princeton 1919" - Absolutely superb. Here are some comments:

* "Paris 1919" is definitely one of the best episodes of the entire series. I remember seeing this on T.V. back in 1993, and being equally impressed by it then. Though there is no action or battles here, what happens is very important. There were so many things going on in this episode, from the attempt by Lawrence of Arabia to give the Mideast independence, to Ho chi M. trying to get better conditions for his country under French rule, to the extreme sanctions made on Germany, etc. Obviously, what happened here led to the second world war, affected Vietnam and U.S. involvement there in the '60's and '70's, and is probably still affecting the world today.
I also thought it was good of Indy to be kind to the Germans (he was the only one that was), despite the fact that he had fought against them in the war.

* As a footnote, it was interesting that at the end of "Treasure of the Peacock's Eye", it seemed like Indy intended to try to go directy to the U.S. However, since "Paris 1919" takes place chronologically after "Treasure", I guess he decided to use his extensive language skills to take part in the Paris Peace Talks beforehand - this was probably because he needed to make some funds in order to get home, and also because he may have been thinking of getting a job with the S. Department.

* This is the first time I have seen the "Princeton 1919" segment, since it was never broadcast on US T.V. Good episode, but kind of underwhelming after the brilliant
"Paris 1919".
However, it was interesting to see Indy go home and try to live a "normal" life again, if only for a brief time. His extremely strained relationship with his father didn't seem to have changed much since he had left, and it was strange that his father still treated him like a 10-year old (demanding he go to his room when he was late for dinner, etc.), despite the fact that Indy was an adult and had just come back from fighting in a horrible war. In this episode more than any other, you can really see why Indy ran away from home in 1916 - living with his father must have been miserable.
It was unfortunate that, when they seemed to have reached a positive turning point, his father got upset with him again when Indy decided to go to the University of Chicago instead of Princeton.

* Paul Robeson's speech at the end (during the college graduation) was very moving, and because of this I have become interested in learning more about him as a historical figure.

Lastly, here is some constructive criticism of "Princeton 1919":

* During the train and ship ride from Europe to the U.S., a significant amount of older, stock color footage with poor picture quality was used (even worse than the same type of footage in the WW I episodes). Not a huge deal, and I understand that this footage was used to save money. However, this did mar the viewing experience for me somewhat.

* I found it somewhat unrealistic that Indy paid off the pursor on the ship so that he could sit with that attractive woman and her mother (on the ship ride to the U.S.). It looked like he gave the pursor a $100 bill, though even if it was only a $20, that was still a lot for 1919. How did Indy have enough money to be throwing it away like this? You would think he would be really watching his funds, since he had a very uncertain future ahead of him.
But, I guess his doing this fit into his character as a ladies man (which had already been established).
 
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ReggieSnake

New member
phantom train said:
I just finished "The Winds of Change", which was composed of "Paris 1919" and "Princeton 1919" - Absolutely superb. Here are some comments:

* "Paris 1919" is definitely one of the best episodes of the entire series. I remember seeing this on T.V. back in 1993, and being equally impressed by it then. Though there is no action or battles here, what happens is very important. There were so many things going on in this episode, from the attempt by Lawrence of Arabia to give the Mideast independence, to Ho chi M. trying to get better conditions for his country under French rule, to the extreme sanctions made on Germany, etc. Obviously, what happened here led to the second world war, affected Vietnam and U.S. involvement there in the '60's and '70's, and is probably still affecting the world today.
I also thought it was good of Indy to be kind to the Germans (he was the only one that was), despite the fact that he had fought against them in the war.
Winds of Change was the second episode that I saw (after Masks of Evil) and Paris 1919 is definitely one of my favorites so far.

The scene in which the Germans are forced to sign the document was handled brilliantly. After being dragged through the worst parts of war torn France and having their luggage stolen by the French mob waiting for them in Paris, they are forced to sign an agreement, the content of which they were told they would have a say in. As they rigidly march in, the music reflects what is to come, Nazism. The German ambassador moves to sign, and the inkwell is dry.

The episode drives home the point that, despite Wilson's good intentions, much of what happened in the rest of the 20th century could have been avoided if the end of WWI had been handled differently. If people could have let go of their greed and revenge.

Great episode.
 

TalonCard

Member
The Tingler said:
There you go, it takes Young Indy himself to drag this thread back on topic! My only annoyance with Masks of Evil is that it wasn't one of the movie-length stories, so the actual Dracula portion of the story feels very short.

I really liked "The Third Man" inspired story that opens Masks of Evil, but it's hard to sit through when you know there are vampires on the way. ;)

The Tingler said:
Lawrence I like, but YIJC portrays Roosevelt as a man who did his very best to make the world's endangered species that little bit more endangered. I got a very negative opinion of him after watching that episode.

The thing is (and the I think the George Hall bookends clarified this) that extinction still wasn't a mainstream concept at the turn of the century. I know from my own reading that in the first half of the eighteenth century at least, many people held the opinion that God or nature wouldn't allow species to become extinct. I don't know how the historical Roosevelt specifically dealt with this issue, but that's the kind of mentality the YIJC was showing a transition from. Roosevelt actually thought he was doing the world a favor by collecting as many specimiens as possible for museums, etc.

phantom train said:
I just finished "The Winds of Change", which was composed of "Paris 1919" and "Princeton 1919" - Absolutely superb.

Argh! That's one of the ones I want to see the most! :D

phantom train said:
* As a footnote, it was interesting that at the end of "Treasure of the Peacock's Eye", it seemed like Indy intended to try to go directy to the U.S. However, since "Paris 1919" takes place chronologically after "Treasure", I guess he decided to use his extensive language skills to take part in the Paris Peace Talks beforehand - this was probably because he needed to make some funds in order to get home, and also because he may have been thinking of getting a job with the S. Department.

The transition from "Peacock" to "Winds" is one of the biggest leaps we have to make in the series--Indy's journey back to the states would have been several episodes longer if the third season had been picked up, and presumably would have explained exactly why it took him so long. I'm surprised, what with all the extra stuff Lucas shot to bridge the gap between episodes, that "Winds" doesn't have some dialogue at the beginning of the episode explaining this.

phantom train said:
* This is the first time I have seen the "Princeton 1919" segment, since it was never broadcast on US T.V.

It was made specifically for the VHS/DVDs in order to utalize the cut bookends from "Travels with Father", wasn't it?

TC
 

Stoo

Well-known member
phantom train said:
* Paul Robeson's speech at the end (during the college graduation) was very moving, and because of this I have become interested in learning more about him as a historical figure.
Big man with even bigger talent. The guy was blacklisted for his political views but if
you want to see him in action, check out the 1937 version of "King Solomon's Mines"
and "Sanders of the River" (1935). The latter is a bit hard to find but KSM is on DVD.
He sings in both.

Nice review, phantom train! I envy all you Volume 3 owners!

Talon Card said:
Argh! That's one of the ones I want to see the most!
Re: "Winds of Change".
Me ,too! Specifically for the full Princeton episode. It's finally here!(y)
 

tupogirl

New member
One of my favorite things upon learning more about some of these figures, is how many of them were rebellious and made change by doing their own thing. Like TE Lawrence. He cracks me up!

I'm begging for this set for Mother's Day:p, still need/want Volume 1 too.


I think our society is at a perfect point for Indiana Jones to come back. A 'nice', escapist movie. What summer movies are *really* all about.
 
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