Scenes Cut From VHS/DVD films

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
I can't believe they changed the Egypt 1908 ending! The new ending is so weak compared to the original, otherwise I enjoyed it. The joining segment between Egypt and Algiers, was funny coz I could tell Carrier was way older than nine and they put a heap of dark eye makeup on his eyes. I really enjoyed "Perils of Cupid". That Austria segment is so cute!
 

phantom train

New member
That's too bad about the cuts to the show when it was edited into the two-hour tele-films (on VHS and now on DVD). There is no reason that they couldn't have included all of these short sequences on the tele-films, since these sequences wouldn't have made the tele-films that much longer.

That being said, it sounds like if you hadn't seen the shows before back in the '90's (like me), you may not know what you're missing. However, that still doesn't excuse these cuts.

Probably the only way that we would be able to see these completely uncut were if the show was released exactly as it appeared on broadcast TV (in the U.S.) back in the early 90's, i.e. with the George Hall bookends. However, it doesn't look like that will happen.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
From what I understand, Lucas wanted to put the stories in order. So he had the bright idea of putting two episodes together for each film which were beside each other in chonology. To bridge what were often two completely unrelated episodes, he shot linking footage (which was, in my opinion, poorly done). And because Lucas is stubborn once he makes up his mind, the bookends wouldn't work in this format, especially since the pilot episode (Curse of the Jackal) had Indy at both age 9 and 16.
 

Thorpe

New member
It was certainly noticable that two pieces were put together when you see Corey older at the second part. Was he really 16 though on the second part?
 

Stoo

Well-known member
?German East Africa ? December 1916?

Not only do Barthelemy and Maj. Boucher have their voices re-done throughout the
entire episode but EVERY line of ALL the Belgians officers (except Remy) were given
the same treatment. Even though everyone is speaking English, the original has much
more authenticity and emotion. Thank God they didn?t re-dub Zachariah Sloat!
I can?t watch it. After the opening battle, it's time to pop in the original.

As much as I love the extended battle scene at the beginning of ?Oganga?, I was
disappointed about certain shots that have been deleted or shown from another angle.
There are so many differences that it?s hard to know even where to begin.

In the Canadian (and presumably non-U.S. versions) the entire assault lasts 3:07.
The US version from ABC is about 20 secs. shorter. (A section of close fighting and
point-blank shooting was cut.) The new version clocks in at a whopping 8 mins!
The re-arrangement is so glaringly different that the order of events has been altered
to make Indy look even more heroic. He is much deeper into the thick of the fighting
while Remy and the majority of his troop are pinned down. In the original they all
advance together.

The main, deleted or alternate bits that I?ve noticed so far?

When Indy gets knocked down by a bullet, there was a cool, slow-motion shot of him
falling backwards towards the ground. Likewise, there was a great slo-mo side shot
of him getting up and yelling ?ATTACK!?. Both have been changed and Indy now
shouts his orders out in Ubangi.

As the Belgians breach the barricade, there is a part where Indy ends up with his
back facing the Germans while he is looking for his gun. Advancing askaris almost
bowl him over as he is fumbling around for it on the ground. This part is in the
new version but has been cut in two, shown from a different angle, extremely
close up and it?s difficult to see what?s really going on. The original has a much
wider shot and is from the enemy?s point of view.

The MAJOR difference is a short scene with Remy that is now gone which must
have been cut to follow the continuity of the new footage (which is a shame).
Immediately after the machine gun becomes un-jammed, he takes cover behind
a stone wall and yells to Indy, ?ZE DAM MACHINE GUN WILL HAVE UZ TIED DOWN
ON OUR BELLIES!?. Plus another quick shot of Remy poking his head around the
corner to watch his buddy make the mad dash for the gun. A portion of Indy?s
initial sprint is missing, too.

Indy jumping into the machine gun pit is from a different angle. The original is from
the front of the pit instead of the side and is much more effective. He?s coming
towards the camera and is slightly in silhouette right between the 2 guys...
(Great Young Indy moment, though, regardless of the angle!)

The extended battle in ?Oganga? is bigger and better but could have been even
more so had they kept in these fine shots! Apart from them, the bookends and
the dubbed voices, everything else seems to be, fortunately, intact.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Curse of the Jackal - 1/My First Adventure - 1

Obviously, the major changes here are the replacement of G.Hall’s narration and the
large number of additional shots at the beginning/end but there are a few cuts, too.

In Princeton, as Indy walks down the street with his parents, you can hear Indiana the Dog’s
familiar bark for no reason (and quite prominently, I might add). It has now disappeared...

The Jones family leaving their house down the front porch steps has been eliminated!:eek:
Too bad, since Indy is walking with the dog on a leash and hands him over to one of his friends.
There's a closer look at the neighbours on the front lawn as they shake hands. (16 secs.)

Two views of the ship in the montage between the UK to Alexandria have been replaced.
The original has a smaller ship with one smoke stack, the new version features more
dramatic shots of a 3-stack (then 2 :eek:) ocean liner.

At the end, 2 parts have been flipped “mirror fashion”. (The close-up of Ned’s feet when
he grabs the bicycle and the one of Indy gazing at T.E. while he heroically pedals away.)

The biggest loss in this episode is the closing scene where Ned tells an impressionable Henry Jr.
“I’ll write to you. I promise.” followed by “Don’t forget me!” as he takes off. (25 secs.)

The last bit is a very, important part to lose.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Indy is walking with the dog on a leash and hands him over to one of his friends.
Sorry for the double-post but it was too late to edit. I meant to write, "hands her over to one of his friends."
 

fommes

Member
Stoo said:
The biggest loss in this episode is the closing scene where Ned tells an impressionable Henry Jr.
?I?ll write to you. I promise.? followed by ?Don?t forget me!? as he takes off. (25 secs.)

The last bit is a very, important part to lose.

I've just seen this original episode again, for the first time since I saw it when it premiered here. Such a great two-parter. I just can't believe they split it up for the sake of chronology.
I've never seen the new cut 'video' films - they're still not out on DVD here... - but I really don't see why they would cut that part you mentioned Stoo, it's such an integral part for the rest of the series.
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
I recently watched 'Travels with Father' on DVD, and was disappointed to find that the bookend with Sean Patrick Flanery where he meets up with Nancy has been replaced!!!! :(
 

TalonCard

Member
Don't worry too much over it--the Travels with Father bookends were edited together with new footage to create a brand new episode, which was then joined with another episode as Winds of Change for the DVDs. I still haven't seen that one, but supposedly the scenes with Indy, Nancy, and Henry Sr. are all more or less intact...

TC
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Travels With Father

Violet Indy said:
I recently watched 'Travels with Father' on DVD, and was disappointed to find that the bookend with Sean Patrick Flanery where he meets up with Nancy has been replaced!!!! :(
There are also a few other minor cuts/modifications.

There is a scene where a maid brings the Jones' a bowl of water for Ms. Seymour.
The shot of her walking down the hallway has been refilmed with a different set/actress/costume.
The original hallway was very bland and looked out of place for such a stately home.

The boat trip "red line montage" has been modified! Istanbul has been (more appropriately) changed to Constantinople,
and an extra stop in Greece has also been added. So, the difference in the map sequence goes like this:

T.V.: Odessa > Istanbul > Athens
DVD: Odessa > Constantinople > Thessalonike > Athens

As soon as Henry Sr. & Jr. head off to the monastery, we see a shot of their carriage riding down the road.
One would never notice but a Greek temple has been ERASED from the background mountain range!:confused:
My guess is that it was a modern reconcustruction that didn't exist back in 1909/10.

When father & son are treading water in the lake, a far shot of them has been replaced by a close-up when
Henry Sr. says "Ah, this is wonderful!" Plus, another shot of the lamb eating their clothes has been eliminated.
It was used to segue between the lake scene and the village (since you don't see them run out of the lake
butt naked and walk to the village).

The new map montage is definitely a change for the better!
 

Crack that whip

New member
Stoo said:
The new map montage is definitely a change for the better!

For me, one of the most vexing things about George Lucas' constant tweaking of his works is that they aren't always for the worse, just as they aren't always for the better. There are certainly any number of changes (Greedo shooting first, say) that virtually anyone who isn't George might agree are unnecessary or even detrimental, but at the same time there really are lots of changes that really are improvements. For me, seeing
the cobra's unwanted reflection in the glass in the Well of Souls set in Raiders of the Lost Ark
was terrible; while some might have regarded it as "charming" or whatever, it obviously detracted from any feeling the situation is "real," and removed tension from the scene. It undermined one's immersion in the narrative, and I was glad to see it gone. On the other hand, some of the many changes in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, beginning with the excision of the old Indy bookends and reconfiguration of the episodes into "movies" when a lot (most?) of them work better as episodes, are really unfortunate (at least in the opinions of many - most? - people here).

Of course the purist approach is simply to say "leave everything the way it was, flaws and all," but I don't think this is ideal. For historical purposes, yes, it's important to have access to the original versions, and I really wish George weren't so keen on keeping his older versions of stuff out of the marketplace - but the movies and shows also have to work as movies and shows, not just documents about their own creation, and it's inarguable that sometimes the filmmakers just didn't have the resources (money, tech, time, you name it) they should have when they first made their works, or that they made easily-fixable mistakes that if left unchanged interfere with a viewer's appreciation of the work. For this reason I've always cut Lucas a little slack (compared with other fans) when discussing his constant changes; I try to not just dogmatically oppose every one of his little tinkerings, but evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. I still get angry and frustrated about some of his revisions... but I have to admit I actually like some of the others. If only he would at least make all the major versions of everything available in the format of the moment (à la Steven Spielberg, Ridley Scott, etc.), rather than forever consigning them to formats no longer in use...

And I do agree Greedo never got off a shot. :p ;)
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Crack that whip said:
I try to not just dogmatically oppose every one of his little tinkerings, but evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. I still get angry and frustrated about some of his revisions... but I have to admit I actually like some of the others. If only he would at least make all the major versions of everything available in the format of the moment (à la Steven Spielberg, Ridley Scott, etc.), rather than forever consigning them to formats no longer in use...
I feel exactly the same way and, as is the case with the Mata Hari episode, the masterful, digital tinkering
covering the nude models was done for TV censorship. On DVD, the scene plays out much more successfully.

P.S. In A&E's "Biography" on Harrsion Ford, there's a version of the Greedo scene where
Greedo fires 1st but Han doesn't flinch! It doens't look as bad as the final "Special Edition"
(even though it's still a dumb idea).
 

TalonCard

Member
Stoo said:
P.S. In A&E's "Biography" on Harrsion Ford, there's a version of the Greedo scene where
Greedo fires 1st but Han doesn't flinch! It doens't look as bad as the final "Special Edition"
(even though it's still a dumb idea).

That's probably from the 2004 DVD version--Han and Greedo effectively shoot at the same time. As a Star Wars fan, I just find the whole "Han shot first" drama hilarious. First the reaction of fans to the new version. "Huh?" Then the hard core fans reaction. "$(&*@! Lucas ruined my childhood!!!" Then the DVD with both nearly shooting at once...but Han still shoots first. Then Lucas Liscensing makes a bundle off of protest t-shirts saying "Han shot first" and the DVDs of the original versions of the movies. Most recently, a picture taken during the production of Indy IV surfaced with Lucas actually wearing a "Han shot first" t-shirt. Tell me that's not funny. :D

Another change for the better was the inclusion of the new Emperor in the DVD version of Empire. Why Lucas didn't change that long ago is beyond me...

TC
 

Crack that whip

New member
TalonCard said:
Then Lucas Liscensing makes a bundle off of protest t-shirts saying "Han shot first" and the DVDs of the original versions of the movies. Most recently, a picture taken during the production of Indy IV surfaced with Lucas actually wearing a "Han shot first" t-shirt. Tell me that's not funny. :D

Hah! That's hysterical! (y) It'll probably make some fans angry, though... :p

I don't think all the "Han shot first" t-shirts are necessarily licensed by Lucasfilm, incidentally - if they just say that and don't actually use actual Star Wars imagery, they can get away with it, even though everyone understands it's a Star Wars reference. There may be some "official" "Han shot first" shirts, though...

TalonCard said:
Another change for the better was the inclusion of the new Emperor in the DVD version of Empire. Why Lucas didn't change that long ago is beyond me...

TC

I concur. I was really surprised to see that wasn't addressed in the 1997 'Special Edition'.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Crack that whip said:
For me, one of the most vexing things about George Lucas' constant tweaking of his works is that they aren't always for the worse, just as they aren't always for the better. There are certainly any number of changes (Greedo shooting first, say) that virtually anyone who isn't George might agree are unnecessary or even detrimental, but at the same time there really are lots of changes that really are improvements. For me, seeing
the cobra's unwanted reflection in the glass in the Well of Souls set in Raiders of the Lost Ark
was terrible; while some might have regarded it as "charming" or whatever, it obviously detracted from any feeling the situation is "real," and removed tension from the scene. It undermined one's immersion in the narrative, and I was glad to see it gone. On the other hand, some of the many changes in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, beginning with the excision of the old Indy bookends and reconfiguration of the episodes into "movies" when a lot (most?) of them work better as episodes, are really unfortunate (at least in the opinions of many - most? - people here).

Of course the purist approach is simply to say "leave everything the way it was, flaws and all," but I don't think this is ideal. For historical purposes, yes, it's important to have access to the original versions, and I really wish George weren't so keen on keeping his older versions of stuff out of the marketplace - but the movies and shows also have to work as movies and shows, not just documents about their own creation, and it's inarguable that sometimes the filmmakers just didn't have the resources (money, tech, time, you name it) they should have when they first made their works, or that they made easily-fixable mistakes that if left unchanged interfere with a viewer's appreciation of the work. For this reason I've always cut Lucas a little slack (compared with other fans) when discussing his constant changes; I try to not just dogmatically oppose every one of his little tinkerings, but evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. I still get angry and frustrated about some of his revisions... but I have to admit I actually like some of the others. If only he would at least make all the major versions of everything available in the format of the moment (à la Steven Spielberg, Ridley Scott, etc.), rather than forever consigning them to formats no longer in use...

And I do agree Greedo never got off a shot. :p ;)

I think a lot of Lucas' tinkering is sort of a psychological reaction to how he was treated by Hollywood "suits" during production of THX 1138, American Graffiti, and Star Wars. I recently watched the documentary "Fog City Mavericks", which details a lot of famous filmmakers from the San Francisco bay area. It has perhaps the most telling Lucas quote on all of this. The narrator starts talking about how Universal Pictures cut several scenes for the theatrical release of American Graffit, and how upset this made Lucas. Then Lucas comments along the lines of "They cut those scenes out back then. But now we have DVD, and that studio version is now gone forever." :eek:
 

TalonCard

Member
Crack that whip said:
I don't think all the "Han shot first" t-shirts are necessarily licensed by Lucasfilm, incidentally - if they just say that and don't actually use actual Star Wars imagery, they can get away with it, even though everyone understands it's a Star Wars reference. There may be some "official" "Han shot first" shirts, though...

You're probably right. The one Lucas is wearing in the picture has a "Galactic Heroes" style Han Solo, similar to the kind of shirts I'd seen in the Star Tours gift shop, so I just assumed it was official...

TC
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
Stoo said:
There are also a few other minor cuts/modifications.

There is a scene where a maid brings the Jones' a bowl of water for Ms. Seymour.
The shot of her walking down the hallway has been refilmed with a different set/actress/costume.
The original hallway was very bland and looked out of place for such a stately home.

The boat trip "red line montage" has been modified! Istanbul has been (more appropriately) changed to Constantinople,
and an extra stop in Greece has also been added. So, the difference in the map sequence goes like this:

T.V.: Odessa > Istanbul > Athens
DVD: Odessa > Constantinople > Thessalonike > Athens

As soon as Henry Sr. & Jr. head off to the monastery, we see a shot of their carriage riding down the road.
One would never notice but a Greek temple has been ERASED from the background mountain range!:confused:
My guess is that it was a modern reconcustruction that didn't exist back in 1909/10.

When father & son are treading water in the lake, a far shot of them has been replaced by a close-up when
Henry Sr. says "Ah, this is wonderful!" Plus, another shot of the lamb eating their clothes has been eliminated.
It was used to segue between the lake scene and the village (since you don't see them run out of the lake
butt naked and walk to the village).

The new map montage is definitely a change for the better!

They took the long shot with their butts out of the film? That was the funniest thing though! And besides, if they made a longer sex scene with Mata Hari, why the heck cut out the naked backside long shot? Everything else is fine, but still... funniest bit in the whole film and they took it out.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Violet Indy said:
They took the long shot with their butts out of the film? That was the funniest thing though! And besides, if they made a longer sex scene with Mata Hari, why the heck cut out the naked backside long shot? Everything else is fine, but still... funniest bit in the whole film and they took it out.
I guess didn't word this bit too well. The butt shot is not in the TV version (nor is the part where they are walking to the village).
Instead, there is 2nd shot of the lamb eating their clothes which is now gone on the DVD. Hope that makes things a little clearer!;)
 

Michael24

New member
I seem to remember an episode where Henry Sr. and another man greet each other with the same "genius of the restoration" bit that Henry and Brody do in The Last Crusade. I never saw this while watching Volume 1, but I distinctly recall such a moment from years ago when Young Indy was originally airing, so I guess this was a bit lost during the later reedits? :(
 
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