The Old Indiana Jones Bookends Thread

Flannery10

New member
We had a lot of discussion lately about the fact, that the Old Indiana Jones bookends were removed for the VHS and DVD release. Some say the original version is better, some people don't care and are happy that the series was finally released on DVD and some prefer the chronological rearrangement of the new versions. But this is not, what this thread is about. It's about the content and meaning of the bookends, most of them done by George Hall, but one by Harrison Ford and another one by Flannery. Based on the uploads of Stoo on youtube, and all the others who posted them, I will put at least 2 or 3 analysis, a wekk in this thread so we can discuss about them. And once again, please don't make this a Young Indy, canon or not thread.

Curse of the Jackal Bookends (shot with George Hall, takes place in the American Museum of Natural History in New York)

Short summary of the content:
Old Indiana Jones catches two students, who are not interested in the artifacts and try to get away from their class. Indy, shocked by their lacking interest, tells them the story of the Jackal, which he first discovered in Egypt and finally recovered from Demetrius in Mexico. Finally, he shows the kids, that the Jackal is in the museum, and they finally realize that there might be an adventure behind every one of them.

What we find out about Indiana Jones:
Those bookends go very deep into the story, and those are definetely the ones, we find out most about Indy. He finally reveals his birthdate and place and how he spend his childhood. It's also quiet interesting to see, that Old Indy refers to his father, as a smart man, several times, obviously proud to be his son, so we can assume that they started to have a better relationship after "Last Crusade". We find out more about Indys mother, her looks and character. The world lecture tour, which plays a great part in the Corey Carrier episodes and Miss Seymour, also explain where Indy got his interest for different cultures from.

Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
This is actually one of very few episodes, Indy does not refer to historical events very much. Sure, he meets Carter, Pancho Villa and Ned Lawrence, but he never explains what happened to them after he left them, even though he would meet Lawrence and Carter again in later episodes. In the bookends we found out where the Jackal finally ended up, of course, which just disappears after Chapter 6 in the DVD versions, never to be heard of again.

Words of Wisdom and Moral:
The purpose of the bookends was certainly to encourage people to have a bigger interest in history and like school. When Old Indy introduces Miss Seymour, he says: You think your teacher's tough? Let me tell you, she's a pussicat compared with Miss Helen Seymour. So now we can all appreciate our teachers, since she's not as bad as Miss Seymour was, even though their relationship becomes a lot deeper, during the world tour. To see Old Indy sliding down the bainster in the end, was to show, that just a simple thing, can bring back your spirit and hunger for adventure.

Now, all my analyses will be divided into those four parts, of summary, things we find out about Indy, things lost in the DVD versions and words of wisdom. If you think we should add another category, let me know. I'm looking forward to read your posts and hope we'll have a great discussion about those great pieces of Indiana Jones.
 

Indy Smith

New member
Cool idea. I actually posted something here not realising it had been posted. I can't delete this thread so I'll just say cool idea!
 
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Stoo

Well-known member
Nicely done, Flannery10. You've summarized it all pretty well. The things that
I would add about "what we find out" is that he has lost an eye and, judging by
the scar on his face, appears to be due to a sabre wound. In addition to that,
we find out that he has a pet cat named (appropriately), Henry.

Since I've been uploading the videos, it always been a pleasure to read people's
thoughts about the bookends and Old Indy in general. When the show first aired,
I wasn't overjoyed with the portrayal of him, although I thought the bookend
idea was a great one. Old Indy eventually grew on me over the years.

Primarily, I like them because they are rare and provide clues to other chapters
in Indy's life. Areas that have not been explored...
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
I love the part at the end where the kids ask him what happened to the Jackal. It's done in a way that portrays Indy as a living legend. :)
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Yeah, Adam, that's a chilling part. I love the way he brushes the kid aside with his cane
pointing the way to the jackal (which was behind them the entire time). There lies the truth
so Indy walks away without a word...Priceless.

It's also our first look at Indy's new choice in wardrobe. Plaid shirts, polka-dot bow ties,
cardigans and elbow patches.

Plus, we see that he walks with a cane. Could this be due to an injury from some
past adventure or merely the state of the man's feeble frame after years of being
punched, kicked, dragged, tortured, shot (at least 3 times), etc.?
 

Flannery10

New member
I have to agree, a great ending for a great episode. By the way, I'm just working on my London analysis, which I will probably post tomorrow, latest Wednesday.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Forgot to mention we find out that Indy has gone a bit senile and is perhaps
suffering from Alzheimer's...

Kid: So, what about the jackal?

Indy: Jackal? What jackal?
 

Flannery10

New member
Thanks for the feedback, guys. We certainly find out a lot of stuff about Old Indy in the Jackal bookends, since they almost run 10 minutes, including George Hall's in the story narration. The following is an analysis for the London bookends, probably one of the most emotional ones of the whole series and they are, I think I can say this without having seen all the bookends, the biggest loss, the re-edits have experienced.

London, May 1916 Bookends (shot with George Hall, takes place at a small restaurant in New York City)

Short summary of the content:
Old Indiana Jones is having lunch with his tax accountant to go over the big expenses he recently had. He doesn't really pay attention to the accountant, because he's trying to listen to a lady's voice in the background. Since the accountant realizes his client is distracted, he asks him about the voice, and Old Indy tells him the story, of how he met Vicky Prentiss in London and that he never saw her again, after his experiences in London. He shows the accountant the ticket for the bus and when the lady passes by his table, he finds out the lady is indeed Vicky, and they hug, in a happy reunion.

What we find out about Indiana Jones:
First of all, we find out that he's still carrying the busticket with him, so he really seems to keep artifacts of all of his adventures, the biggest one certainly being the diary, in which he wrote down everything. Except that, we don't really find out to much about his personality and other traits.

Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
This is certainly gonna be the biggest section, since there are several things that got lost. Chapter 7 of the DVD version ends with Indy looking out of the train, and we never find out what happened to Vicky and if Indy ever saw her again. The bookends made it clear, that he had never seen her again, until their reunion in the bookends, a very emotional moment, and a terrible loss for the re-edits. That he kept the ticket for the bus, is also quiet important, because that shows us that he obviously thought about her now and then, when he opened his wallet and found that ticket. They had a relationship, deeper than we see in the actual episode. He officially admits to his accountant, that it was a bad idea to join up and blames it on his youth and non-existing experience back then.

Words of Wisdom and Moral: First of all, the accountant obviously enjoyed the story Indy told him, since he smiles at the end. He was one of the fewer people who did that, since people often reacted annoyed to Indy's story and missed the actual point. The Moral would be, not to forget the people you love, because they may come back to you one day. Old Indy obviously thought a lot about Vicky over the 75 years, he hasn't seen her.

The London bookends also introduce us to one of the greatest Young Indy themes ever, when the actual story is fading in and Old Indy tells the accountant about Remy. I just love that theme, and it was used not only in the London episode, but also in Attack of the Hawkmen, when Indy and Remt part. Just a small detail, I thought should be added.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
I was reading through the message boards over at StarWars.com, and found a post made a few days ago by Leland Chee (keeper of Lucasfilm's "Indycron" continuity database). According to Chee, the Old Indy bookends are still canon to some degree, as he has never been told to treat them as non-canon. Interesting. :)
 

ReggieSnake

New member
This is a really neat thread! Unfortunately I don't have much to add; I never saw the original series, though I just bought the Dvds on ebay and I'm very happy about that.(y)

Hopefully I can add to the discussion from the point of view of someone who hasn't seen the bookends, other than those that have been posted...which I still can't get to, due to site blocking problems I need to fix.:p Either way, I'm going to enjoy reading the analysis on the episodes.
 

Flannery10

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
I was reading through the message boards over at StarWars.com, and found a post made a few days ago by Leland Chee (keeper of Lucasfilm's "Indycron" continuity database). According to Chee, the Old Indy bookends are still canon to some degree, as he has never been told to treat them as non-canon. Interesting. :)

I always thought that Lucas took the bookends out to make sure, we are still afraid Indy might die in Indiana Jones 4. But he re-edited them in 1999, when that film was still a rumor.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Flannery10 said:
I always thought that Lucas took the bookends out to make sure, we are still afraid Indy might die in Indiana Jones 4. But he re-edited them in 1999, when that film was still a rumor.

I've heard people say that before, but it just sounds rediculous to me; Lucas knows as well as you and I that the series was never a major hit, and that it has a relatively small fanbase. Most people who will be going to KOTCS may have seen YIJC once or twice or may have simply heard of it, but really don't care enough about the show to take the bookends into consideration. In other words, the only people the changes would effect are YIJC fans like you and I. So I think he must have another reason for his re-edits.
 

ReggieSnake

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
I've heard people say that before, but it just sounds rediculous to me; Lucas knows as well as you and I that the series was never a major hit, and that it has a relatively small fanbase. Most people who will be going to KOTCS may have seen YIJC once or twice or may have simply heard of it, but really don't care enough about the show to take the bookends into consideration. In other words, the only people the changes would effect are YIJC fans like you and I. So I think he must have another reason for his re-edits.
He may have figured it would be more marketable as a history series, though why I couldn't say.‘Young Indiana Jones’ offers history lessons
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
How are the original episodes not a history series, though? :confused: They may have not have been marketed by ABC as a history series, but ABC made some bad choices with that show. If anything, the bookends make the episodes feel more like a history show, because it's being told in the past tense via flashbacks. And Old Indy always sums up things in the end, relating to us the moral of the story and relating history to whatever he's doing at the moment.
 
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Flannery10

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
And Old Indy always sums up things in the end, relating to us the moral of the story and relating history to whatever he's doing at the moment.

That's exactly how I feel about the bookends. The results of some of the actions the historical people took, are not explained in the re-edits, at all.
 

ReggieSnake

New member
Flannery10 said:
That's exactly how I feel about the bookends. The results of some of the actions the historical people took, are not explained in the re-edits, at all.
That's the sad thing about re-edits in general, they distort the creator's original intentions (that goes for pan-and-scan versions of widescreen films as well). Now it is a little different when the person who made them is making the changes, however, they (George Lucas) really should make the original versions available. ("Don't paint over it Rembrandt, just paint a new painting");)

I agree. I don't think taking the 'past tense' feel away from the series makes it anymore of a history show, it might make it less, as you've pointed out, if anything.

Are there any positive reasons they would have been taken out? This trend of revising things seems all too common with 'ole George.
 
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robweiner8

New member
I was considering starting a petition to Lucasfilm for the return of the bookends. What do you guys think? Would it ever result in a response?
 

Flannery10

New member
robweiner8 said:
I was considering starting a petition to Lucasfilm for the return of the bookends. What do you guys think? Would it ever result in a response?

Well, it's kinda hard to tell. It took very many complaints and petitions to make Lucas release the Star Wars originals, the greatest films the guy has ever made. So, how will he respond to the complaints about an (sorry guys, but let's face it) unsuccesful series, many people don't like and don't know about. It will take a very long time, to get Lucas convinced, but you never know.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Flannery10 said:
So, how will he respond to the complaints about an (sorry guys, but let's face it) unsuccesful series, many people don't like and don't know about.

But he's its biggest supporter! (Well, not the of bookends, but the series in general.) He put out the current sets, and was willing to put millions of dollars into them, knowing they would only sell modestly at best. We need to get the message out that we're happy that we've got it in some form on DVD, but that we would love to have the original versions as well. Something to that effect.
 
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