The Old Indiana Jones Bookends Thread

Ltdefense

New member
Flannery10 said:
In my opinion Rob McGregor's novels make the perfect transition from the Young Indy series to the adult movies.



How well do the books line up with the tv shows, continuity wise? I'd dig picking them up if they seem like a good match, but I've heard some other people complain that young indy and the McGregor books don't quite make sense with each other.
 

Junior Jones

New member
Ltdefense said:
How well do the books line up with the tv shows, continuity wise?

There are a few problems. In the TV show, Indy returns from the war in 1919 and starts college that fall. At the beginning of Peril at Delphi it's April 1920 and Indy is preparing for his graduation ceremony.
 

Flannery10

New member
Junior Jones said:
There are a few problems. In the TV show, Indy returns from the war in 1919 and starts college that fall. At the beginning of Peril at Delphi it's April 1920 and Indy is preparing for his graduation ceremony.

True, the dates are a little mixed up. I was referring to the style, and I really imagined Flanery playing Indy in Peril at Delphi the whole time I read the book.
 

Ltdefense

New member
Well, I ordered Peril of Delphi to see how it is...really love the young indy era. I'm willing to flub the dates in my mind as long as the characterization still holds up...I just want it to feel like the same character continuing his adventures.
 

Junior Jones

New member
Ltdefense said:
Well, I ordered Peril of Delphi to see how it is...really love the young indy era. I'm willing to flub the dates in my mind as long as the characterization still holds up...I just want it to feel like the same character continuing his adventures.

No worries then. It's the same character. (And I gloss over the dates in my mind, too.)
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
I thought I might take a shot at this (hope you don't mind, Flannery10 ;) ):


"British East Africa, September 1909" bookends. They were shot with George Hall, and take place at the "City Hotel & Conference Center", where the "Metropolitan Foundation for Educational Quality" is holding its "Annual Celebrity Tennis Shoe Auction & Dinner" (what a mouthful!).

Short summary of the content:
Old Indy is at a formal dinner. Two passive-aggressive women set down at his table and start taking shots at each other; one is a vegetarian and a huge supporter of animal rights, while the other loves meat and brags about her fur coat. Indy intervenes, telling a story about "a time when to shoot an animal was an act of conservation". After he finishes his story, he leaves, and no one at the table gets the point of his story.

What we find out about Indiana Jones:
From a young age, he has a respect for animals, and comes to believe that there should be a balance, rather than the extremes of the two women. Another thing we discover is that Old Indy attends social events relevant to the educational system.

Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
At the beginning of Old Indy's story, there is a scene where young Indy and his family arrive at Medlicot's coffee plantation. Old Indy reveals in the narration that Medlicot was an old school mate of his father's (and we see this as Henry Sr. and Medlicot perform the college "handshake" from Last Crusade) who has invited them to go on safari with him and Theodore Roosevelt. The scene then cuts to Medlicot, Henry, and Indy on a train (which is where the DVD version picks up).

Words of Wisdom and Moral:
Old Indy basically tries to impart on the women (and of course, the audience) that every creature has its place in nature, and that humans are no different.
 
Last edited:

Flannery10

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
I thought I might take a shot at this (hope you don't mind, Flannery10 ;) ):

Quite the opposite. A great post Adam, and maybe we should take turns on this.

As for the bookends and episode, British East Africa is my favorite Corey Carrier episode, because of its strong moral and the well combined elements of action and humor. The cinematography is absolutely perfect and the bookends are also pretty well done, not the best, but certainly funny.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Adamwankenobi said:
What we find out about Indiana Jones:
From a young age, he has a respect for animals, and comes to believe that there should be a balance, rather than the extremes of the two women. Another thing we discover is that Old Indy attends social events relevant to the educational system.
We can also see that Indy still likes his booze. When leaving the table, he grabs his wine glass!
Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
At the beginning of Old Indy's story, there is a scene where young Indy and his family arrive at Medlicot's coffee plantation. Old Indy reveals in the narration that Medlicot was an old school mate of his father's (and we see this as Henry Sr. and Medlicot perform the college "handshake" from Last Crusade) who has invited them to go on safari with him and Theodore Roosevelt. The scene then cuts to Medlicot, Henry, and Indy on a train (which is where the DVD version picks up)
The closing shot of Meto raising the binoculars a second time is also lost.
(In "Passion for Life", you can see he starts to turn away after saying his goodbye.)
 

ReggieSnake

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
Words of Wisdom and Moral:
Old Indy basically tries to impart on the women (and of course, the audience) that every creature has its place in nature, and that humans are no different.
Alas! The impact of the lesson is a bit lost without the bookends, however good or bad cinematicly they might be. The point is made, but it doesn't feel like it has a resolution, some episodes it seems you left wondering what the point was exactly.
 

Crack that whip

New member
I've always thought / felt that even if one dislikes the bookends in and of themselves, the main narrative sandwiched between them tends to work better with the framing they provide. One could actually dislike the Old Indy material and still appreciate the Young Indy material all the more for the Old Indy material's inclusion. Of course, if one happens to appreciate the Old Indy stuff on its own terms as well, as I do, so much the better...
 

Lao_Che

Active member
ReggieSnake said:
Alas! The impact of the lesson is a bit lost without the bookends, however good or bad cinematicly they might be. The point is made, but it doesn't feel like it has a resolution, some episodes it seems you left wondering what the point was exactly.

I'm not sure either ending works myself. On the one hand you have the message/Jones undermimed by the two women completely missing the point (which I think happens a little too often in the bookends) but on the other the new version is just a midway point leading on to a story about contrasting painters.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Flannery10 said:
Quite the opposite. A great post Adam, and maybe we should take turns on this.

:cool:

Stoo said:
We can also see that Indy still likes his booze. When leaving the table, he grabs his wine glass!

Ah, observant! :p A while after I made that post, I also thought about the sgnificance of Old Indy's "Garden of Eden" line. Though it was likely just a metaphor, perhaps at his old age he has converted to Judaism or Christianity?
 

ReggieSnake

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
Though it was likely just a metaphor, perhaps at his old age he has converted to Judaism or Christianity?
What was he before?

(Note: I still haven't seen any of the bookends, and I'm chronologically on "Trenches of Hell" (Germany, 1916).)
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
ReggieSnake said:
What was he before?

Well, per LC and YIJC, he had a strict Christian upbringing. Also per YIJC, his encounters with T.E. Lawrence and Jiddu Krishnamurti give him a different more worldwide view of religion. And by the time of the films, it's pretty clear that he's become an agnostic. ;)
 

Flannery10

New member
"Verdun, September 1916" bookends. They were shot with George Hall in a plane, probably somewhere over the USA

Short summary of the content:
Old Indiana Jones is sitting in a plane, next to a wall street broker, who is know as the "Pirate of Wall Street". He tells Indy about his plans, to break up the company and to sell it, plane by plane. Indy gets very upset, because the man obviosuly doesn't care what's gonna happen to the employes. Therefore Indiana tells him, how he was in the Battle of Verdun and met General Nivelle, who like the broker, didn't care about the consequences of his actions on the little guy. The Pirate doesn't show the slightest interest in Indy's story, falling asleep during it.

What we find out about Indiana Jones:
Theodore Roosevelt introduced Indy to guns in the British East Africa Episode, and in the Verdun episode, Indy increases his knowledge about them, by finding out about the "Big Bertha" howitzers. It's the first episode Indy speaks German in, and since this is the first real war episode in the series (by airing), we first see, that Indy obviously regrets ever joining up for the war.

Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
In the linking segment of the re-edited version, Remy is obviously criticizing Indy for the actions he took at the end of the episode, besides the fact that Indy probably saved his life. Blowing up his motorbike was a great thing to do and in the bookends we see that Old Indy is proud, that he did, what he could, to save hundreds of lifes. Very sad irony, in my opinion, that Indy's actions couldn't save those soldiers and they only got "to live a day longer".

Words of Wisdom and Moral:
While Remy failed to see, what a great thing Indy did, Old Indy is still proud of what he did, because even though he really didn't have any power, he tried to make a difference, something Nivelle failed to do.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Flannery10 said:
Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
In the linking segment of the re-edited version, Remy is obviously criticizing Indy for the actions he took at the end of the episode, besides the fact that Indy probably saved his life. Blowing up his motorbike was a great thing to do and in the bookends we see that Old Indy is proud, that he did, what he could, to save hundreds of lifes. Very sad irony, in my opinion, that Indy's actions couldn't save those soldiers and they only got "to live a day longer".

Also, we lose Old Indy revealing the fates of Petan and Nivelle, with Indy comparing Nivelle's hatred for politicians with Nivelle's own problems later on as a politician.
 

Flannery10

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
Also, we lose Old Indy revealing the fates of Petan and Nivelle, with Indy comparing Nivelle's hatred for politicians with Nivelle's own problems later on as a politician.

It's Petain's hatred for politicians, actually, but yeah, that happened quite often. We don't find out, what happens to the historical persons in many episodes.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Whatever admirable qualities Petain had in The Great War became historically stained
because of his collaboration with the Germans in WW2.

Nice review, Flannery, but I think it strays too much from the purpose of your thread.
(which was to discuss the bookends content and not the episodes themselves nor the
linking segments). Maybe do a rewrite? I'm just trying to be consistent!:D:hat:
 

Flannery10

New member
Stoo said:
Nice review, Flannery, but I think it strays too much from the purpose of your thread.
(which was to discuss the bookends content and not the episodes themselves nor the
linking segments). Maybe do a rewrite? I'm just trying to be consistent!:D:hat:

The part "What we find out about Indy" is based too much on the episode, I'll admit that, but I brought the linking segments in to show, how the impression of Indy's actions were changed. When we watch the re-edits with linking segments, we get a negative impression on what Indy did at the end of the episode, because of Remy criticizing him. The bookends though, show us that Indy thought positively about it, and therefore the impressions were completely changed. The impact of Indys Words "They never found out what I did and 10,000 Men lived a day longer" are completely lost in the re-edits.
Here's my rewrite of "What we find out about Indy", because I screwd that one up pretty badly.

What we find out about Indiana Jones:
First of all, Indy mentions that he has been flying with the same airline for 50 years. That means, since around 1943, so not the one he was flying with, in RotLA and LC, but maybe...;)
The fact that he's still flying probably tells us, that he's still doing quite a bit of traveling and perhaps he's on his way to one of his lectures.
 
Last edited:

ReggieSnake

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
Well, per LC and YIJC, he had a strict Christian upbringing. Also per YIJC, his encounters with T.E. Lawrence and Jiddu Krishnamurti give him a different more worldwide view of religion. And by the time of the films, it's pretty clear that he's become an agnostic. ;)
Thanks, I'd say that is a valid assumption. I just wondered if it was mentioned explicitly.

Indy is still pretty young throughout the experiences mentioned, which makes me wonder about labeling him as Agnostic right off, though in the films it is apparent that he isn't devout anything which can be soft form of agnosticism I guess.;)
 
Top