The Old Indiana Jones Bookends Thread

Stoo

Well-known member
Flannery10 said:
The part "What we find out about Indy" is based too much on the episode, I'll admit that, but I brought the linking segments in to show, how the impression of Indy's actions were changed. When we watch the re-edits with linking segments, we get a negative impression on what Indy did at the end of the episode, because of Remy criticizing him. The bookends though, show us that Indy thought positively about it, and therefore the impressions were completely changed. The impact of Indys Words "They never found out what I did and 10,000 Men lived a day longer" are completely lost in the re-edits.
Understood and you are right. The "10, 000 men" line is a valuable thing to lose, as is the one about
Petain having "a hard time living up to his own moral code." Without the bookends the audience thinks
that Petain is, historically, a swell guy whereas Old Indy foreshadows Petain's future, disgraceful actions.
It's his efforts in WW1 that stopped Petain from being shot by firing squad.
What we find out about Indiana Jones:
First of all, Indy mentions that he has been flying with the same airline for 50 years. That means, since around 1943, so not the one he was flying with, in RotLA and LC, but maybe...;)
The fact that he's still flying probably tells us, that he's still doing quite a bit of traveling and perhaps he's on his way to one of his lectures.
Now, that's more like it!(y) As for the which airline it could be, judging from the paint job & markings,
it looks fictional and the plane appears to be a model. Anyway, I agree. He's still traveling around.
Maybe it's another lecture...or a flight to Wyoming for ol' Grey Cloud's funeral?
 

Flannery10

New member
"German East Africa, December 1916" bookends. They were shot with George Hall in a hospital in New York City

Short summary of the content:

Old Indiana Jones is in the hospital, because of a bee sting. While Indy is waiting to be called up, a little girl, that has been shot is rushed in. The guy next to Indy, Mike, is complaining about those kids shooting each others head off and that the girl will never amount to anything, anyway. Indy becomes extremely mad, as usual, and tells him the story of, how he was on a mission through the African jungle and how he and the people under his command, found a little black boy, who might have been infected with disease. At the end, Old Indy reveals that kid to be Barthelemy Boganda, first prime minister of the Central African Republic. Then a young doctor comes in, asking if anyone has the bloodtype AB negative. Mike volunteers, since he has that blootype and leaves Indy pleased, that he influenced him in a positive way.

What we find out about Indiana Jones:
It seems that Indy looses a lot of his toughness with old age, since he goes to the hospital because of a bee sting. Also we find out his bloodtype, which is 0.

Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
In the re-edits we never find out, that the little boy is Barthelemy Boganda and would end up to be prime minister of Central Africa, and therefore some of the episode's message is lost due to that. Also, we lose the wonderul lines: "I'm sorry I ever met you!" and Old Indy's amused reply: "Yeah, I have that effect on people."

Words of Wisdom and Moral:
The message of the episode is certainly, that anyone could end up doing something great, no matter, what race, nationality or how rich they are.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Adamwankenobi said:
Ah, observant! :p A while after I made that post, I also thought about the sgnificance of Old Indy's "Garden of Eden" line. Though it was likely just a metaphor, perhaps at his old age he has converted to Judaism or Christianity?
Even though the line is probably just a metaphor, wouldn't he have reverted to Christianity rather than convert?
I highly doubt Old Indy is Jewish. (Milk with meat = bad.)

Reggie Snake said:
(Note: I still haven't seen any of the bookends, and I'm chronologically on "Trenches of Hell" (Germany, 1916).)
Awesome episodes! Reggie, having not seen any of the bookends, you are in an interesting position!
Will you save yourself from watching any until you finish watching Volume 3 and "Skull" is released?
We can use you as an experiment!;) :p

Reggie Snake said:
Thanks, I'd say that is a valid assumption. I just wondered if it was mentioned explicitly.

Indy is still pretty young throughout the experiences mentioned, which makes me wonder about labeling him as Agnostic right off, though in the films it is apparent that he isn't devout anything which can be soft form of agnosticism I guess.
As Adam mentioned (re: Ned and Krisnamurti), he was obviously starting to question religion by the time he was 9.
Having been exposed to those cultural differences at such an early age makes it difficult to imagine Indy being fixed
on any particular religion. (That's the way I see it, anyway.) Glad you're taking part in these coversations, Reggie!
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Stoo said:
Even though the line is probably just a metaphor, wouldn't he have reverted to Christianity rather than convert?
I highly doubt Old Indy is Jewish. (Milk with meat = bad.)

True, true. Another reason I say that though is that a lot of non-eligious people become religious at an old age.
 

ReggieSnake

New member
Stoo said:
Awesome episodes! Reggie, having not seen any of the bookends, you are in an interesting position!
Will you save yourself from watching any until you finish watching Volume 3 and "Skull" is released?
We can use you as an experiment!;) :p
Sure! What sort of experiment do you have in mind?;)
Stoo said:
As Adam mentioned (re: Ned and Krisnamurti), he was obviously starting to question religion by the time he was 9.
Having been exposed to those cultural differences at such an early age makes it difficult to imagine Indy being fixed
on any particular religion. (That's the way I see it, anyway.) Glad you're taking part in these coversations, Reggie!
I think he's really only favorably exposed to this, and I'll call it, "New Age Religion" idea of everyone having truth but no one is right. That is primarily what the Theosophists believe, and George Lucas by all accounts. I get your point though and I agree.

Thanks! I've been reading along on the threads, hopefully I can add more as I become more familiar with the series.(y)

Adamwankenobi said:
True, true. Another reason I say that though is that a lot of non-eligious people become religious at an old age.
So the old adage about wisdom coming with age has something to it then.

Kind of off topic, but I think it was Aristotle who said one should not study Philosophy until one is at least 35.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Flannery10 said:
"German East Africa, December 1916" bookends. They were shot with George Hall in a hospital in New York City

Old Indiana Jones is in the hospital, because of a bee sting.
What we find out about Indiana Jones:
It seems that Indy looses a lot of his toughness with old age, since he goes to the hospital because of a bee sting.
Actually, the bee sting isn't revealed until "next week's episode". You can briefly see that
he has one slipper on but, other than that, you don't know exactly why Indy is there.

It's the 1st time we see Old Indy without a bow tie. He just wearing a white T-shirt
underneath his cardigan, so you can almost picture scrambling to get to the hospital
quickly and not bothering with his shirt & tie!
Flannery10 said:
Elements, that got lost in the DVD versions:
In the re-edits we never find out, that the little boy is Barthelemy Boganda and would end up to be prime minister of Central Africa, and therefore some of the episode's message is lost due to that.
BIG, big loss...The comic book has a great article on Boganda.
Anway, good post, Flannery! There's not much more to add!:)
ReggieSnake said:
Sure! What sort of experiment do you have in mind?
Don't watch ANY Old Indy bookends until you have finished watching all the Young Indy DVDs
(including Volume 3) and "Crystall Skull". Seeing the last chapters of Indy's life in a more, linear fashion
could be an interesting way to experience them as the ULTIMATE BOOKEND to all the filmed material.

Of course, you do as you please, sir!;)
 

ReggieSnake

New member
Stoo said:
Don't watch ANY Old Indy bookends until you have finished watching all the Young Indy DVDs
(including Volume 3) and "Crystall Skull". Seeing the last chapters of Indy's life in a more, linear fashion
could be an interesting way to experience them as the ULTIMATE BOOKEND to all the filmed material.

Of course, you do as you please, sir!;)
Hmm.. I think I could do that. It's only a month, supposing I get through all the episodes before KotCS is released. Besides, I still have most of the documentaries to watch! Good idea.:hat:

You're on, Stoo!;)
 

Flannery10

New member
Stoo said:
Actually, the bee sting isn't revealed until "next week's episode". You can briefly see that
he has one slipper on but, other than that, you don't know exactly why Indy is there.

It's the 1st time we see Old Indy without a bow tie. He just wearing a white T-shirt
underneath his cardigan, so you can almost picture scrambling to get to the hospital
quickly and not bothering with his shirt & tie!

True, the bee sting should have been put in the Congo Summary. I actually liked the style without the tie and the white T-Shirt. Made him look a little more like the adventurer he used to be.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
ReggieSnake said:
You're on, Stoo!;)
Be warned! This path could be extraordinarily unclimactic!;)
Flannery10 said:
I actually liked the style without the tie and the white T-Shirt. Made him look a little more like the adventurer he used to be.
I'm glad that's about as far as it got and that we were spared the opportunity of George Hall baring his chest.:eek:
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Indy Never Stopped Doin' His Thing

Stoo said:
Be warned! This path could be extraordinarily unclimactic!;)
Sorry for the "double post" but I should have written "anitclimactic".

Anyway, going back to the "London" bookends (digging deeper into the content)
has revealed a fascinating nugget of information! Been meaning to post this...

While Indy is trying to listen to "that voice", the accountant is lecturing him about
his "fairy stories". Here's what I could decipher from the whispered portions:

"When the IRS starts making threats, you have to take them seriously!
Now, what they find hard to believe is that you can still manage, at your age,
to rack up the same standard of expenses...(something)...now...(something)
...when you were in your prime!"

Fairy stories + large expenses = Old Indy is still at it!:whip:
 

tupogirl

New member
Stoo, I just wanted to thank you so much for posting the bookends! That is actually how I ended up finding this site. I miss George Hall:(. And Old Indy.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
tupogirl said:
:( That is so sad!

I think it sort of gives the Old Indy bookends the tone portrayed at the end of The Green Mile; by the time he is an old man, Indy has lost many of the people close to him: his mother, his father, Marcus and Marion.
 

phantom train

New member
Just some constructive criticism of the bookends - though I understand the issues a lot of people have with the exclusion of these on the re-editing of the IJ films on the VHS tapes in the late '90's (and now the DVD's), I remember one specific bookend that I thought was very hackneyed:

It was one of the WW I episodes (maybe Verdun). In the intial part of the bookend, Old Indy was waiting at some kind of food court, and one of the young guys working there was rude to either Indy or another customer. The young guy defended himself by saying that he was overworked, etc.
Old Indy proceeded to pin the guy down with his cane, and told him that even though he thought he had it tough, Old Indy (when he was the guy's age), was fighting in the Trenches, etc.

How many times have you heard an older person say, "When I was your age...." It's tiresome to hear this type of thing. This is one of the many reasons I don't miss the Hall bookends (and this is coming from someone who saw them all on their initial release). Just my .02....
 
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tupogirl

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
I think it sort of gives the Old Indy bookends the tone portrayed at the end of The Green Mile; by the time he is an old man, Indy has lost many of the people close to him: his mother, his father, Marcus and Marion.

Very true. There is definitely an air of melancholy to the man *anyway*, it just increases through his life.
 

TalonCard

Member
phantom train said:
How many times have you heard an older person say, "When I was your age...." It's tiresome to hear this type of thing. This is one of the many reasons I don't miss the Hall bookends (and this is coming from someone who saw them all on their initial release). Just my .02....

Eh, the kid deserved it--he was an obnoxious creep. And the episode played against expectations by having Indy arrested for assault at the end. ;)

TC
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
TalonCard said:
Eh, the kid deserved it--he was an obnoxious creep. And the episode played against expectations by having Indy arrested for assault at the end. ;)

TC

And the kid was mean to that old woman. Somebody needed to say something to the punk.
 

tupogirl

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
And the kid was mean to that old woman. Somebody needed to say something to the punk.


I *loved* how he told the guys he was gonna get out in an hour! And he did! And they were glad to be rid of him!!!

I miss George Hall:(.
 
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