Dial of Ahaz

kongisking

Active member
Montana Smith said:
Because his ears would be constantly burning and his blood constantly boiling. He'd be a physical and emotional wreck!

(In reality I don't think he really cares what fans think. He just does what makes himself happy!)

This is a problem I intend to avoid, if I ever become a filmmaker or author. I would make sure to interact with any fans I have, instead of shunning them like Lucas does. If they have criticisms, I would listen and try to improve my work.
 

Indy's brother

New member
kongisking said:
I think Frank Darabont was going for a Hitchcock-style Indiana Jones thriller with the first act of his City of the Gods script. It actually works much better than you'd expect.

As for this MacGuffin, why oh why isn't Lucas on this site? This would be fantastic for an Indy movie, and fits in with Lucas's sci-fi fetish.


Are you hearing us George and Steve-o? A Hitchcock angle seems to be the trend for Indy 5 wishes around here lately...great new bone to pick clean for inspiration. ;)
 

Indy's brother

New member
Just got an idea out of nowhere a moment ago. As long as we're talking time-travel here, how cool would it be to see Indy come upon a dead version of himself, fedora and all? Fresh or otherwise. I can totally see the types of faces Ford could make to sell that scene!
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
The time travelling idea is certainly one with potential. Just think: if they could go back more than 40 minutes, we could even have an older Indy back in his element, in the 30s or even earlier! If Mutt was along for the ride, there could be some good fish out of water moments, where Indy could show up his son.

I'd have a couple of provisos, however. First off, I wouldn't want him hopping around to too many different times. That would simply get tiresome. One destination would be enough. Also, I really wouldn't want a Marty McFly-type thing where we have two different Indys interacting. I'd hope they'd stay away from that idea.

Maybe one glimpse of his younger self from afar - a particularly emotive moment that carries some significance - would work, however.

As to actually travelling back to the moments of pre-history that he himself studies as an archaeologist, who knows? The possibilities are endless...
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Toht's Arm said:
The time travelling idea is certainly one with potential. Just think: if they could go back more than 40 minutes...

The possibilities are endless...

Such a scenario seems a problem, though. They could dangle a fuller form of time travel than the short form as a possibility, a hope - both for the villains and for, possibly, a bereaved Indy - but to actually offer it up is to take things into a very different story-telling territory. I don't think it'd be right for the universe of the character, frankly.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Such a scenario seems a problem, though. They could dangle a fuller form of time travel than the short form as a possibility, a hope - both for the villains and for, possibly, a bereaved Indy - but to actually offer it up is to take things into a very different story-telling territory. I don't think it'd be right for the universe of the character, frankly.

I'm wary of the idea of time travel as well. It throws everything into doubt, regardless of how we might have wished things were different. Playing with time sets a precedent for nothing ever being final. It also sucks the emotion out of any death.
 

DoomsdayFAN

Member
Good point, Montana, but on the other hand, if done right, time travel could be a very interesting subject. Granted, it's difficult as hell to pull off convincingly, but if they did, it would be very cool. Especially if Indy traveled back thousands of years and got to interact with certain mythical people, setting things straight, righting wrongs, helping out famous historical figures, before returning to his present time. (y)
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
DoomsdayFAN said:
Good point, Montana, but on the other hand, if done right, time travel could be a very interesting subject. Granted, it's difficult as hell to pull off convincingly, but if they did, it would be very cool. Especially if Indy traveled back thousands of years and got to interact with certain mythical people, setting things straight, righting wrongs, helping out famous historical figures, before returning to his present time. (y)

Why is that attractive, though, outside of some Saturday morning cartoon context where the emphasis is on churning out vaguely appropriate stories to tell rather than working with historical and mythological elements within a given timeframe of the 20th century? Seems like you can't get much more removed from Indy's actual vocation as an archaeologist than having him righting ancient wrongs.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Why is that attractive, though, outside of some Saturday morning cartoon context where the emphasis is on churning out vaguely appropriate stories to tell rather than working with historical and mythological elements within a given timeframe of the 20th century? Seems like you can't get much more removed from Indy's actual vocation as an archaeologist than having him righting ancient wrongs.

Especially considering that Indy spends a lot of time wronging the rights of the ancients. Until the Young Indy series he wasn't much of a role model, and that was a major attraction to the character. (As was the character of Han Solo to my formative imagination).
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
This is one of those ill-formed ideas possibly more worth throwing out than throwing out into the arena, but perhaps there's something primordial about the dial and its shape. Maybe it hearkens back to a much, much earlier time.

giant_center_spiral_fossil-8x10.jpg
 

pienomos

New member
The Staircase "Dial"

Hello, i am new here, just entering in this interesting brainstorming, our Lab set it as Scavenger Hunt, based on the Dial of Ahaz hunting the Hidden dimension.

Well, Prophet and/or message from the master written during civilisation come to others to be decrypted. The Time Machine of Ahaz based message have two clear words: degrees and step.

About degrees, as the shadow cannot go back 10 degrees, lets simulate it with geo-browser and use longitude and latitude, back from Hezekiah's Pool, located in the Christian Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. The pool is supposed to be the one referred to in 2 Kings 18:17, and there is a belief that this is the upper pool where King Hezekiah, King of Judah, met messengers from the king of Assyria and the the prophet Isaiah: Coordinate: Longitude: 35.228997, Latitude: 31.776960, Altitude (Step): 0;

About step, lets use that words as altitude and/or third dimension to see things. ( The Staircase "Dial" , as astronomer Edward Walter Maunder)

Based on that hypothesis we think that Jerusalem & Hezekiah's Pool is Ground Zero.

Geographic-data-coordinate : starting point of G-Spot Narrative.
Coordinate Hezekiah's Pool: Longitude: 35.228997, Latitude: 31.776960, Altitude: 0
By the Hypothesis: Ten degrees back on Latitude and Longitude. For each coordinate I increase both or the single data as below:
Hezekiah's Pool. The Ambassadors: 35.228997,31.776960,0
Ten Step Back. North: 25.228997,21.776960,0
Ten Step South: 45.228997,41.776960,0
Ten Step East: 25.228997,41.776960,0
Ten Step West: 45.228997,21.776960,0
Winter Solstice Sunset: 45.228997,31.776960,0
Winter Solstice Sunrise: 25.228997,31.776960,0
Summer Solstice Sunrise 35.228997,21.776960,0
Summer Solstice Sunset 35.228997,41.776960,0

Well, I invite you to explore with google earth plugin on G-Spot website the geometrical evolution of that theory, that shaw earth can be a time machine reality show. ( http://gspot.bugs3.com/sundial/node/54 )

You are welcome if you wish to be registered and any feedback/comment/help is very welcome.

Pienomos

star-of-david-why.jpg


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pienomos

New member
137.5 Degrees

The spiral expand it self by 137.5 degrees.

Ten-Step-Back.jpg


Attila the Professor said:
This is one of those ill-formed ideas possibly more worth throwing out than throwing out into the arena, but perhaps there's something primordial about the dial and its shape. Maybe it hearkens back to a much, much earlier time.

giant_center_spiral_fossil-8x10.jpg
 

emtiem

Well-known member
Great thread; it's fun that the word 'dial' has reappeared, but I guess when dealing with ancient measurements of time, a sundial is almost inevitable. It seems like the dial of destiny is more Greek than Christian, but who knows.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
I was pleased to also find on my own bookshelf The Choking Doberman by Jan Harold Brunvand, whose books are the basis for the comic collection excerpted above. He appears to still be alive in Salt Lake City, Utah and turns 90 in March. I couldn't find an excerpt so I took a photo of "The Missing Day in Time." Bonus Indy 4 fodder pictured here too.

126629_900.jpg
 

PaleFoxoftheBalkanBazaars

Well-known member
Going with the sci-fi angle, and how some fans would like another biblical artifact, how about time travel, by way of this little fella:

sundial.jpg



2 Kings 20:8-11

Of course it's a bit of an embellishment to say that the power came from the sundial itself, rather than the God of the bible,......but that same argument could be made against the 3 macguffins of the OT. :p

edit (ok, the Sankara stones were not from the christian bible, but you catch my drift)

So what can this thing do? Well it's a sundial that grants the user the ability to travel back in time 10 degrees, which is 40 minutes according to this source. For creative license this amount of time could be lengthened/shortened. Indiana Jones and the Sands of Time? Hmmm. Not quite, the story also includes some kind of healing power of time-travel.

I'm sure it will be brought up because it's rather obvious, so I'll head you off at the pass: On the negative side, I'll freely admit that the time-travel angle has been used in Prince of Persia, and that the healing properties of the holy grail have also been used before. Also, the darned thing actually looks a bit like the grail:
sundialfrommadainsaleh.jpg


There is a way around these problems if you prefer:


source

The Stairway of Ahaz......hmmmmm. Where on earth could I find something visually fitting for 50's sci-fi, and Indiana Jones. O wait, I know, my thread about Indy 5 locations!

2851420726_b336f8d331.jpg

Thanks for finding that one, Yure!

The Stairway angle is also problematic:


source

Not that it's impossible to write around this. The staircase is now underneath Jerusalem in a buried building (think "Cities of the Underworld"), or that it was incorporated into a different building (think library in LC).

Either way, Stairs or Dial, let me know what you think, and lastly, for your consideration, this other interesting looking dial:

Herodian%20Sundial%20B1.JPG

Herodian%20Sundial%20F1.JPG


Bear in mind that Ahaz was the King of Judah, so if it was an actual sundial, it may have been a little more opulent than the unassuming pics above.
I love this idea! I think the expectation wasn't so much that every film have a Biblical artifact, but alternating ones do because of Raiders and Last Crusade. It looks like this one is pretty Greek heavy, so my guess is that it is breaking the cycle.

There is a book called "Many Dimensions" (1931) by Charles Williams (one of the Inklings with Lewis and Tolkien) that deals with the finding of a legendary stone that Solomon had in his crown, allowing him to see into other times/dimensions, thus increasing his wisdom. It's an excellent book in my view, and deals with time travel and Jewish artifacts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_Dimensions
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Hezekiah died in 687 BC in Judah (now in Israel), after the dial event (702 BC) added 15 years to his life. Archimedes died in 212 BC in Syracuse (now in Sicily) and (I'm wildly speculating here) tinkered with the dial before then, adapting stone punk technology for the sandal punk era. I'm sure the researchers have this all sorted out.
 
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