SyFy joins Alice in Wonderland

RedeemedChild said:
Montana Smith, with all do respect I'd like to ask how can you call Tim Burton's beautiful vision of "Wonderland" creepy and not find the demoralized McFarlane's Dorothy Gale "not creepy"? McFarlane's concept of Dorothy is insulting to the very dignity of womankind. Even Warner Bros. has told him that it is "hideous" and would be "offensive to movie goers" and that they will adjust his concept "to be more like that of Harry Potter".

Woman are to be respected as they are one of the most beautiful pieces of handywork in God's creation. McFarlane is not better than a child molester or rapist in my opinion.


Judge not lest ye be judged.


Back to your bull**** moralizing I see? Boy was the board so much better without you.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
RedeemedChild said:
Montana Smith, with all do respect I'd like to ask how can you call Tim Burton's beautiful vision of "Wonderland" creepy and not find the demoralized McFarlane's Dorothy Gale "not creepy"? McFarlane's concept of Dorothy is insulting to the very dignity of womankind. Even Warner Bros. has told him that it is "hideous" and would be "offensive to movie goers" and that they will adjust his concept "to be more like that of Harry Potter".

Woman are to be respected as they are one of the most beautiful pieces of handywork in God's creation. McFarlane is not better than a child molester or rapist in my opinion. Nevertheless lets get back on topic.

These Alice images are disturbingly creepy - it looks like a circus freak show.

Todd McFarlane, in his role as a master artist and sculptor, has a history of presenting powerful and beautiful women. On occasion he turns the tables (as with Clive Barker's 'Infernal Parade', which I also find creepy). If you read the story that accompanies the 'Twisted Land of Oz' figures you'll discover that McFarlane's Dorothy was 18, and she walked into the scene depicted from her desire to explore the more mischievous side of her personality.

Redeemed, why post a picture of Dorothy and then tell us to look at it because it's 'diabolical', 'disturbing' and 'debauched'. I don't believe in God, but I do know that in the story the Devil did that sort of tempting in the Garden of Eden. If you find an image that you feel is offensive, the best thing to do is keep it to yourself, and don't broadcast it to an even wider audience.
 
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RedeemedChild

New member
Montana Smith said:
These Alice images are disturbingly creepy - it looks like a circus freak show.

Todd McFarlane, in his role as a master artist and sculptor, has a history of presenting powerful and beautiful women. On occasion he turns the tables (as with Clive Barker's 'Infernal Parade', which I also find creepy). If you read the story that accompanies the 'Twisted Land of Oz' figures you'll discover that McFarlane's Dorothy was 18, and she walked into the scene depicted from her desire to explore the more mischievous side of her personality.

Redeemed, why post a picture of Dorothy and then tell us to look at it because it's 'diabolical', 'disturbing' and 'debauched'. I don't believe in God, but I do know that in the story the Devil did that sort of tempting in the Garden of Eden. If you find an image that you feel is offensive, the best thing to do is keep it to yourself, and don't broadcast it to an even wider audience.

Thank you Montana Smith. I understand where you're coming from now. My sister also feels as if Tim Burton creations are strange and extremely disturbing.

I, however do not approve or rather do not applaud everything that Tim Burton has done but I do admire his skill and imagination.

Anyway I am glad that WB plans on creating a new Wizard of Oz movie sequel and I am also glad that it will get the Harry Potter-esque twist as the first three movies Sorcerer's Stone through Prisoner Of Azkaban has had an effect on all aspects of fantasy genre movies including Narnia, LOTR and even the new Sorcerer's Apprentice. Howbeit I'm not an actual Potter fan.

Hopefully the prequel play "Wicked" will be adapted by the makers of the Narnia or Twilight movies into a prequel Wizard of Oz movie as I really enjoy the Wizard of Oz and SyFy's Tin Man.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
RedeemedChild said:
Thank you Montana Smith. I understand where you're coming from now. My sister also feels as if Tim Burton creations are strange and extremely disturbing.

I, however do not approve or rather do not applaud everything that Tim Burton has done but I do admire his skill and imagination.

Look, works of art that are "strange and extremely disturbing" are often still mad with "skill and imagination." Some of them are good and some of them are bad. Indeed, art that isn't disturbing on some level, that doesn't call us to think or feel anything that we haven't felt before or that we might not want to feel, is worth very little. So I'm not sure whether you're trying to set up some dichotomy, or if you feel like Montana is criticizing the images from the film in calling them "disturbingly creepy" - I suspect that it's closer to praise - but if you are, it's not that simple.

Of course, things that are disturbing and creepy can just as easily be absolute dreck. But then, lots of things are.

As for my reaction to the photos: well, as usual, one has to hope that Burton doesn't simply take refuge in weirdness and call that enough. He's become a brand all his own, really, and I don't think that's helped his art any.

Oh, and do you actually know <I>Wicked</I>? Because, speaking of dreck, it's a piece of smug political claptrap full of overcooked power ballads. Any human moments in it are few and far between.
 
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RedeemedChild

New member
Attila the Professor said:
Look, works of art that are "strange and extremely disturbing" are often still mad with "skill and imagination." Some of them are good and some of them are bad. Indeed, art that isn't disturbing on some level, that doesn't call us to think or feel anything that we haven't felt before or that we might not want to feel, is worth very little. So I'm not sure whether you're trying to set up some dichotomy, or if you feel like Montana is criticizing the images from the film in calling them "disturbingly creepy" - I suspect that it's closer to praise - but if you are, it's not that simple.

Of course, things that are disturbing and creepy can just as easily be absolute dreck. But then, lots of things are.

Thanks Attila. You're so very gifted. Your insight is like that of sage. I like your opinions and advice. Art should always drive, inspire and sometimes shake us a bit. Art should also be pleasing, beautiful and at the same time thought provoking and Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland is simply that in my opinion as was his Charlie and Chocolate Factory. As for his new movie 9, I know not what to say for it.

Attila the Professor said:
As for my reaction to the photos: well, as usual, one has to hope that Burton doesn't simply take refuge in weirdness and call that enough. He's become a brand all his own, really, and I don't think that's helped his art any.

Again I agree with you. I also hope he won't take refuge in wierdness. Burton's The Corpse Bride and 9 and totally out there in left field.

Attila the Professor said:
Oh, and do you actually know <I>Wicked</I>? Because, speaking of dreck, it's a piece of smug political claptrap full of overcooked power ballads. Any human moments in it are few and far between.

I know. Yet, I think Wicked still has potential if picked up by a good movie maker like Jerry Bruckheimer or J.J. Abrams.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila, you are right to say that art should make us feel something. The Alice images make me feel uneasy. There's something in the circus freakshow that I've always found disturbing, and that goes along with my childhood fear of clowns, which has left an impression.

There again, the Alice story is an unsettling one, made more so when you learn of the events in Lewis Carroll's life that lay behind it.

Whilst there is undoubtedly beauty and skill in the Alice images, the whole picture relays the weirdness that I don't find appealing in many of Tim Burton's films. His use of covered sets creates an unreal, theatrical, claustrophobic atmosphere. Whilst his first Batman film was the best rendition of the character (before Nolan), Batman Returns was much creepier and claustrophobic, especially with the character of the Penguin. I have similar feelings towards the 1960s Batman TV series - Caesar Romero as the Joker used to give me nightmares. With the Alice images it's the semi-real, deformed, freakish element. ('City of Lost Children' was a compelling film that I also found disturbing in the same way).

When it comes to fantasy art (or fantastic art) I am much more drawn to the work of Boris Vallejo or Frank Frazetta, which is the style into which the sculptures/toys from Todd McFarlane's company generally fall. If there is something disturbing about the Dorothy figure, then it's not Dorothy herself, but the deformed Munchkins, which look more like the deformed characters in Burton's pictures.
 
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RedeemedChild

New member
I'm so sorry Montana Smith.

I should have known better. Afterall when I first came in contact with Tim Burton's realm of imagination through The Nightmare Before Christmas I was appaled and frightened and the same thing happened to me again with his nearly diabolical 9 movie.

Tim Burton has great skill and talent but times he seems to tread in the shadows of the "dark arts."

However I think he is trying to adjust to appeal to a casual and broader audience in a move away from macabre and this I think is proven by his latest films like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the upcoming Alice in Wonderland.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
It's okay, Redeemed, it's hard to explain. I don't mind the macabre or horror (though I'm not a fan of gore for gore's sake - I like creepy as in supernatural and suspense). But there is something peculiarly unsettling about a clown, and I see it in Burton's Red Queen, Tweedledum and Tweedledee, even the Cheshire Cat. They also remind me of the Grimm and Andersen type of fairy tales, which were pretty gruesome, yet written for children.

I think Burton taps into those fairy tales, as did Carroll. It's odd, but I much prefer to watch Heath Ledger as a more realistic, sociopathic Joker, than the clowning Caesar Romero in the 1960s Batman serial. Maybe I can blame Romero for my lifelong dislike of clowns!
 

RedeemedChild

New member
Well I'm not completely near the end but so far Disney's/Buton's Alice in Wonderland is far more impressive and fantastical than I could have ever imagined.

It's just as enjoyable as Disney's Narnia and yet it is still as charming as the first Disney animated Alice in Wonderland to which there are many hints and references in this movie. I must also say it is far SEPERIOR to the SyFy Alice in Wonderland reimaging!

BTW guys check out this article at MTV.com, http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1633406/story.jhtml.

It states that Alice in Wonderland has made over 116 million dollars which is far more than Charlie and the Chocolate Factory ever made.

I've got to say that I JUST adore that Cheshire Cat along with Doormouse.
 
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Junior Jones

New member
RedeemedChild said:
Well I'm not completely near the end but so far Disney's/Buton's Alice in Wonderland is far more impressive and fantastical than I could have ever imagined.

How is it that you've only seen part of it? Are you posting from the theater? Are you watching it ILLEGALLY online? Are you from the future when its already out on DVD?
 

RedeemedChild

New member
Junior Jones said:
How is it that you've only seen part of it? Are you posting from the theater? Are you watching it ILLEGALLY online? Are you from the future when its already out on DVD?

LOL. You can access the internet from a Blackberry.
 
RedeemedChild said:
Thanks Attila.

So anyway what did you guys think of Alice in Wonderland?


So anyway, while I not-so-skillfully dodge (ignore) the rest of the conversation, how about you finally take a hint and pick up on the fact that everyone thinks you're a tool?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
RedeemedChild said:
LOL. You can access the internet from a Blackberry.

The film was so good that you felt the need to access the internet during it?

Whilst waiting for my car to be serviced at the garage last Friday I was reading one of the newspapers in the waiting area. There was a less than complimentary review of Alice in Wonderland. The summary of the review was that the movie was a directionless mess. Johnny Depp was trying too hard to be odd, and the CGI was a failure in that Alice always looked like she was interacting with nothing.
 

metalinvader

Well-known member
RedeemedChild said:
Woman are to be respected as they are one of the most beautiful pieces of handywork in God's creation.


And how would you know anything about women? I figured you spend all day watching fruity anime and Twilight sh!t,with your hands down your pants.Or your sisters pants...Either way,You two both have the same parts.
 
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Agent Crab

New member
metalinvader said:
And how would you know anything about women? I figured you spend all day watching fruity anime and Twilight sh!t,with your hands down your pants.Or your sisters pants...Either way,You two both have the same parts.


*snickers* Nice one, Metal.

I wonder if he has ever seen a woman, besides his sister and his mom.

This movie really don't intrest me. I am not one for Tim Burton. I didn't mind him directing one of the Batman films, but the dude is a bit loopy for my tastes.
 

RedeemedChild

New member
Agent Crab said:
*snickers* Nice one, Metal.

I wonder if he has ever seen a woman, besides his sister and his mom.

This movie really don't intrest me. I am not one for Tim Burton. I didn't mind him directing one of the Batman films, but the dude is a bit loopy for my tastes.

WOW MetalInvader. You have no respect for anyone. BTW I have two girlfriends and I know women but I don't have to prove that a to hearltess loser like you. BTW I am sick of people like you not repecting the likes and tastes of others. I never make fun of you or stuff that you. Just because you don't Bleach or Naruto or The Count of Monte Cristo: Gankutsuou or Twilight Saga does not give you the authority to make demonic, unkind remarks about me or anyone else.

People must learn to live in their worlds and stop sticking their long noses in other people's business. What I choose to watch is of no concern of yours. If you don't like Twilight then fine and if I like it then fine. Watch what you want to watch and I'll watch what I dern well please to watch.

Anyway Agent Crab I know understand how you feel about Tim Burton but I must admit that I like shadowry, strange and abnoral stuff (macabre anyone?) like Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland and The Twilight Zone.
 

Agent Crab

New member
RedeemedChild said:
WOW MetalInvader. You have no respect for anyone. BTW I have two girlfriends and I know women but I don't have to prove that to hearltess loser like you.

Anyway Agent Crab I know understand how you feel about Tim Burton but I must admit that I like shadowry, strange and abnoral stuff like Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, The Twilight Zone and that pupptry Caroline movie.


You need some sense of humour, kiddo.

I don't like Dark, Gothy "kid" stuff where all the goth kiddies flock to the nearest Hot Topic in their Jack Sekelton, Naruto, Invader Zim and Mad Hatter shirts.
 
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