Indiana Jones 5: July 19, 2019

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Drones33

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I think this film will be a great last ride for Ford's Indy and for Ford himself, and for Spielberg, it will be what Crusade was: A heartfelt, moving apology for the previous film, same as Crusade was for Temple.

Was Crusade an apology for Temple? Temple is very different to Raiders, but it didn`t need an apology, surely.

And to be honest, after your consistent defense of Crystal Skull I`m surprised at your implication that it too needs to be apologised for.
 

Z dweller

Well-known member
Finn said:
if the plan is to have some younger heroes take the spotlight in the action scenes and relegate Indy to a supporting character, that's another obvious no-no.
Actually, I'd rather watch old Indy use his smarts and experience to help a younger sidekick who's bearing the brunt of a very physical action scene, than tackle the suspension of disbelief required by a 75+ Ford bearing the brunt himself.

Unless of course they set the movie in a retirement home, in which case old Indy can safely hold his own with his peers. :p

Finn said:
if the latter comes to pass, I won't be doing anything to curb it. Rather might even take a little part in it myself.
You da man! ;)
 
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Johnny Nys

Member
I can only speak for myself. I didn't become a true Indy fan until in my middle teens, when I played the "Fate of Atlantis" computer game. Then suddenly I remembered the movies, seeing Temple on TV almost every year around Christmas time for some reason. The warehouse ending of Raiders stood firmly in my mind's eye, but I didn't recall ever seeing the entire movie. The first Indy movie I consciously watched from start to finish was Crusade, and I loved it as a kid, it was my favorite of the three. Then as I grew up and saw all the movies over and over, Raiders became my favorite. It was more mature, more serious, more menacing, and it fitted better my personal mindset, having grown out of the giddy schoolboy.

When Skull arrived, I went to see it twice in theaters. I watched it without an eye on the "making of" of the movie, without analysing it, without comparing it. I was just around for the ride. I have this thing, call it an ability or call it a flaw, where I'm totally sucked into a work of fiction, be it movie, or book, or video game, and forget the distinction between it and the real world. For that limited amount of time, that story IS the real world for me, and I simpy go along with it.

When Indy V comes out, I'm sure the same will happen, and I will enjoy every minute of the experience. Then later on, perhaps during the second viewing, perhaps only with the third, I might start to pull the movie apart, became aware of what's good and what's bad. But first and foremost, I will tag along with one of my favorite movie characters ever as if I was really there beside him.
 

Finn

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Z dweller said:
Actually, I'd rather watch old Indy use his smarts and experience to help a younger sidekick who's bearing the brunt of a very physical action scene, than tackle the suspension of disbelief required by a 75+ Ford bearing the brunt himself.
The point of course was that it's another potential yet cheap way to get around Ford's age. It's an Indiana Jones movie, so we should see Indy himself in the center of action. If Ford can't handle it, then they should replace Ford as Indy, not come up with a new character who acts as Indy's action surrogate.
 

Pale Horse

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Finn said:
...then they should replace Ford as Indy, not come up with a new character who acts as Indy's action surrogate.

My first though of Indy, as surrogate:

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Z dweller

Well-known member
Finn said:
If Ford can't handle it, then they should replace Ford as Indy
Couldn't agree more, but sadly that ain't gonna happen in Indy 5.

Spielberg+Koepp+Ford = another KOTCS sans aliens, sorry interdimensional beings. (n)
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Drones33 said:
Was Crusade an apology for Temple? Temple is very different to Raiders, but it didn`t need an apology, surely.

And to be honest, after your consistent defense of Crystal Skull I`m surprised at your implication that it too needs to be apologised for.

Crusade was indeed an apology by Spielberg for the "poorer showing" and overall mixed reception that Temple got. That's why the film is so close structurally to Raiders, at least partly.

Well, I may defend the film because I like it for what it is, but I also know my opinion isn't in the majority. While I personally like the film, I don't think many here or on any movie forum would disagree that KOTCS, or aspects of it, do merit some apology. I may like it, but others don't and I'm well aware of that. And in the end I want as many fans to be happy as possible. A GREAT, classic Indy yarn is a win for all of us.
 

Finn

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Z dweller said:
Couldn't agree more, but sadly that ain't gonna happen in Indy 5.
Which is why we must be confident that they believe Ford's still got it. Because it gets a little late to go the sidekick route once they've got a script and the shooting's begun. If they only discover that Harry's past his due date by then, that's when those other tricks, like heavy CGI and liberal use of stuntmen, come into play. And all we can do is hope that the seams aren't too obvious.

But if they already know they're going to give Indy an action sidekick here, then it's one movie that should not be made at all. If the name of the film bears name "Indiana Jones", then the right choice is to recast, not retool.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
I too find the "for the fans" bit to be somewhat ominous, but he's also "super excited," so perhaps it evens out.

And of course he won't kill Indy at the end. The character must survive to be George Hall in the Young Indy bookends.
 

Finn

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Udvarnoky said:
The character must survive to be George Hall in the Young Indy bookends.
Given how those have been cut from the later YIJC editions, their canonicity has actually been in question for a while. (KotCS, however, pretty much canonized all the SPF/Carrier segments.) Never officially refuted though, just in... limbo.

I'd say a far more likely guarantee for not killing off Indy is that the hero dying has never been a major theme in the old adventure serials the series emulates. On the contrary - ending with a high note is one of their staples.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
I don't know how I feel about the Young Indy canon being "sort of" acknowledged by the movies. They made the Pancho Villa reference, so it's clumsy not to commit all the way. Put a ring on it or **** off, I say.

Which is why I'm also hoping Indy casually mentions his bastard daughter at some point.
 

Finn

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Udvarnoky said:
I don't know how I feel about the Young Indy canon being "sort of" acknowledged by the movies. They made the Pancho Villa reference, so it's clumsy not to commit all the way. Put a ring on it or **** off, I say.
There's nothing "sort of" about the issue, IMO, since the Old Indy segments have simply been cut from the later YIJC editions. So them embracing simply the SPF/Carrier bits as canon is not so compromising. It'd be more weird if the George Hall bookends were still present.

I can understand them cold shouldering the Old Indy bits though, given how they contain two major elements that would sort of feel cheap if they just shrugged them off with the movies as something that just happened between "here" and "there". The daughter is one, and the eyepatch is the other. In fact, it almost feels as if giving Indy a son and his marriage to Marion were deliberate attempts to take some distance to Indy's "future" as shown by the YIJC. (Of course, neither is an explicit contradiction to said segments, but still.)

If they wish to acknowledge Old Indy as canon, it won't be difficult to add a nod in this upcoming film. But right now the writing on the wall heavily suggests that they're trying to, if not actively disown, but at least willfully ignore that they've ever been shot.
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Might be my own brain re-editing information but I seem to recall some article from the time saying that Lucas intended to drop the bookends for home release anyway.

Could explain why he was fine with George Hall doing things his way with the portrayal.
 

Johnny Nys

Member
Didn't they use that "for the fans" line for KotCS as well? Wasn't that why they brought back Marion? I remember that video where they introduced her again, and it felt like total fan service.
 

Attila the Professor

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Johnny Nys said:
Didn't they use that "for the fans" line for KotCS as well? Wasn't that why they brought back Marion? I remember that video where they introduced her again, and it felt like total fan service.

I have a very strong recollection of such, but I can't find the exact quote. Seems like it was said at Comic-Con 2007, based on The Raven's archives.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
I think we all saw this coming. What remains to be seen is how substantive or nominal his EP role shall be. I'd be particularly interested to know if the McGuffin they selected is the same idea he was supposedly working on in the years after Crystal Skull.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Thing is George no longer owns the IP so he can't stamp his feet and hold Indy hostage if Spielberg doesn't agree with an idea of his.
 

Attila the Professor

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Raiders112390 said:
Thing is George no longer owns the IP so he can't stamp his feet and hold Indy hostage if Spielberg doesn't agree with an idea of his.

And that's arguably good. While I think the ancient aliens/Roswell/crystal skull business of Indy IV was a solid MacGuffin with well-realized thematic shadings, I'm also willing to believe that Lucas's sticking to that idea had a role in delaying the film's production.

Overall, though, I think it's great news that he's actually involved. He's the idea man. You want him in the room at this stage, if he's willing to be there.
 

Crack that whip

New member
Oh, very much so. Also, I have to say that as a longtime fan of his (and not just for his two huge franchises) who's been heartbroken to see how much his star has fallen in the eyes of so many of his fansover the last couple decades, what I really want from a fifth Indy movie - probably the final production in either this series or Star Wars with which he'll be directly, personally involved - is for him to deliver a really great movie, one that's as near-unanimously well-received as possible.

That, and a movie that still leaves open the possibility of the YIJC bookends remaining canon. :p

Anyway, I'm very glad to finally get one last round with the whole team. It's kind of amazing.
 
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