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Old 08-03-2015, 04:58 PM   #1
Phlip
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Changes and Improvements you would make to the Films

So, it’s safe to say we’re all very much fans of the franchise, yeah? They say that one criticises the things they love because they want it to improve and that’s the only way it can get better, with whatever the it may be. So following this logic, I’m wondering, what aspects would you improve about any of the Indy films?

This is a thread just for fun to see what ideas you have that could elevate, say, your favourite or least favourite film. The hypothetical changes you would make to make the overall film better could be something like the music, a deleted scene being re-implemented, or a scene being taken out, more or less dialogue added, a new sub-plot?

As for myself, Temple of Doom is easily my favourite and always has been, so here would be my answer to me asking myself “How could the film be better?”

- The film should have been called “Raiders of Temple Kali,” keeping the “Raiders” as the franchise identifying title. A “starring Indiana Jones” subtitle could have worked.

- During the entire first half of the film, the (youthful?) greed and selfish desire for fortune and glory could be emphasized more. (I’ll come back to why later.)

- When the plane crashes into the mountains and they jump out with a raft, this could happen much closer to when the plane actually crashes to heighten the peril, and the crash of the plane could cause an avalanche of the snowy mountains. The intensity of the scene would be bettered for the fact that loads of snow would be chasing them as they’re “rafting” and speeding down the mountain and forest with the deadly snow catching up to them. Before they fall to the river, the avalanche effect could actually overtake and consume them, putting the audience in a moment of “What the hell just happened… he isn’t supposed to die here ” and doing away with the cliché of the hero making it just in time. Even though them being overcome by the rampaging snow would only last a few seconds, that suspense would make it feel much longer. … then they fall free, but into the river.

- During the Dinner of Doom, the pigs head dish should be re-implemented. Even if it goes over the top, I believe the campy humour the film sports would be great. The explanation of the history of the Thuggee cult could be articulated a bit better. Harrison tends to mumble and as some key points are mentioned, the camera is on Willie. A brief moment of better explanation would have made for a slightly better told story, without impacting on the humour of the dinner too much after.

- When it comes to the sacrificial ceremony that Indy, Willie and Short Round watch, the magic stones are brought out first. Then there could be topless Indian female dancers, some of which stroke Mola Ram’s face sexually as they dance for the demonic, zombie crowd. After the heart is ripped out and the hole in his chest closed, we get a close up of the stones glowing as to indicate it’s the magic keeping him alive. As the victim is being lowered, Mola Ram could take a bite out of the heart which squirts blood on his face and covers his mouth with dripping blood. The lowering of the victim would be intensified with more quick cutting of the topless dancers, the scariness of Mola Ram’s bloody face with that evil grin, the crowd chanting with some sweeping flying camera shots, the horrified expression on Indy and the victim burning with an agonising scream. Continued quick cutting featuring these things as the fast paced male choir, drum beats heighten and the heart in Mola Ram’s hand bursts into flames and the sustained shot of the victim’s skin melting off revealing his skeleton; with no wall of fire filtering out and sparing the horror imagery.

- In the case of the torture scene where Indy is whipped, the speech Mola Ram gives about the Christian army being cast down and forgotten, the Muslims being overrun forcing Allah to Bow to Kali and the British army being slaughtered could be more prominent. Amrish’s thick accent and the sounds of Indy struggling to drunk make this almost inaudible when it’s good dialogue. The rough order of events could be that after Indy spits the Blood of the Kali out, his shirt is ripped off completely with Indy turned around as the bullwhip lashings begin. The torturous pain could be dwelled upon more by extended whipping and drawings of blood on his back, keeping the “Leave him alone you bastards!” as Short Round gets a less intense lashing. Then the voodoo doll is brought out with its back held against the flames, which causes even further devastating pain for Indy. A close-up could show his back, as blood suddenly pours out of his wounds. The pain emphasized by Harrison’s strong grunts, and even tears as we see him so broken down he begs them to stop, eventually vomiting off-camera. The torture stops before he is turned around and his back shoved against the wall complete with a skin-crunching sound effect,

- As Willie is being handcuffed in the cage by Indy, I thought it would be cool, if messed up and possibly too extreme, for Indy to actually rip out Willie’s heart as directed to under the influence of Mola Ram. The hole in her chest would also repair and she’d stay alive just as the other victims do as she’s being lowered. The magic of the stones is what would keep her alive for the rest of her life as long as they are in existence. Later in this scene when Chattar Lal gets his ribs crushed by the wheel-mechanism, instead of this happening, Indy could grab his neck and force it to the floor at the other end as one of the handles lands and clamps his neck to the ground which stops the cage lowering, but much much shorter of the lava than in the film, and with a higher pitched screech sound of it stopping. Immediately after, his neck snaps and his severed head flies upwards with a fountain of blood which lands in Short Round’s hands, he gets a fright by what he is suddenly holding, but throws it up in the air to spin kick it into the lava gap pit that separates the crowd, then a shot shows him with a cheeky grin of laughter. (When the neck initially snaps, Indy quickly grabs the wheel handle so it doesn’t drop even further.) Also in this scene at some point, a small explosion at the bottom of the pit could spray a few a few spheres of lava, some of which burn Willie and leave scars for the rest of the film.

- When hanging on the bridge with the cult firing arrows at him, for some slapstick comedy one of the arrows could be shot into his arse cheek with a cartoony wobbly sound bite.

- The death of Mola Ram could be more brutal and actually visible.

- When it comes to my earlier point about Indy being more obviously in it for the money, at the end of the film I like that he has a turn around which really builds his character (as it is a prequel), so I wonder if there could be any way that it could fit for him to have a moment of realisation of what just happened and have his emotions overcome him.

"In moments of extreme danger, coolness replaces fear, and all of one's energy is devoted unconsciously to survival. Later, when the danger is past and one has time to dwell on thoughts of the closeness of death, one surrenders to the terror of an awful crisis already mastered." -- Helene Deschamps-Adams

That is what I would like to be explored purely through facial expression and music somewhere when he reaches the village, which is the turning point of his character.


Well, there are my detailed suggestions on how Temple of Doom could have been better, to which I hope I made sense. I’m probably the only person in the world who would actively prefer added shock-value and sustained peril and fear, I realise, but I’d be interested in hearing opinions on those suggestions, and some of your own.
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Old 09-12-2015, 04:30 PM   #2
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Wow, you just created a very R-rated "Temple of Doom"!

I like it as is, but would love to see some of the rumored deleted scenes such as the death of Chattar Lal and a possessed Indy lying to Captain Blumburtt about what he found in the temple. The article "Raiders of the Lost Drafts" on theraider.net also describes a cool scene where a possessed Indy terrorizes Willie before she is taken prisoner by the Thuggees. This could have been cool as well. So my thoughts are that I don't want it changed, but rather I want to see more. Although had David Niven not died, he was supposed to play Captain Blumburtt. That would have been a welcome change. He was a great actor.
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Old 09-12-2015, 05:35 PM   #3
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Erase that shot in Kingdom of the Crystal skull where the hat falls on the floor and Mutt picks it back up.
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Old 09-12-2015, 07:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFedora
Erase that shot in Kingdom of the Crystal skull where the hat falls on the floor and Mutt picks it back up.
Even better: erase Mutt altogether.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
Even better: erase Mutt altogether.


Mutt is revealed to be a hallucination caused by the exposure to the first alien skeleton!
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFedora
Mutt is revealed to be a hallucination caused by the exposure to the first alien skeleton!

Wasn't there a theory at one time that the whole second half of the movie was Indy's own personal Hell or purgatory after being killed in a nuclear blast?
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaner
Wasn't there a theory at one time that the whole second half of the movie was Indy's own personal Hell or purgatory after being killed in a nuclear blast?

Cant remember, but it does make sense. Finding out the annoying kid was his son from Marion would qualify as purgatory in any case.
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:43 AM   #8
neverAcquiesce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaner
Wasn't there a theory at one time that the whole second half of the movie was Indy's own personal Hell or purgatory after being killed in a nuclear blast?

Well, he did end up married with a kid...

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Old 09-14-2015, 11:52 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by neverAcquiesce
Well, he did end up married with a kid...


Post of the month
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlip
- When hanging on the bridge with the cult firing arrows at him, for some slapstick comedy one of the arrows could be shot into his arse cheek with a cartoony wobbly sound bite.

I could have done without the hammer bouncing off that Thuggee's head.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:26 AM   #11
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I would change a few things in the series. First, Indy as a teen in LC was fine except all of the character traits he gains in that one scene. They could have kept the sequence, kept it full of action and maybe he gets one of his traits during the action. The way it was done was overkill. Also, I can't stand the named after the dog bit. Takes away some of the characters mystery at the expense of a joke. And why did Marcus and Sallah have to become bumbling fools. Now let's move to CS. I like elements of CS but it was poorly executed. Why does area 52 have such a small amount of guards? Why do we need the mystery of the Ark location revealed? Why is the magnetic properties of the alien selective? The opening scene is overall fine by me but just a few points I've noticed. I also would have picked another actor for Indy's son. Shia is not believable in the role. Overall the movie is decent until Marion is included. Not because of Marion but because the movie goes downhill at that point. The sandpit scene is campy and terrible, the truck scene is extremely cgi and fake looking. It takes me out of the film. All the action in the truck scene is so far fetched it becomes ridiculous. The sword fight, the anti soviet monkeys, the blade of the tree cutter going through their vehicle and it still runs and they survive, Spalkos vehicle running over the top of the hero's and no one is hurt. The rubber tree is also bad film making and so is the waterfall scene. I don't mind the rest of the film but those are some areas that need some definite improvement.
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:30 AM   #12
Mickiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry W Jones
I would change a few things in the series. First, Indy as a teen in LC was fine except all of the character traits he gains in that one scene. They could have kept the sequence, kept it full of action and maybe he gets one of his traits during the action. The way it was done was overkill. Also, I can't stand the named after the dog bit. Takes away some of the characters mystery at the expense of a joke. And why did Marcus and Sallah have to become bumbling fools. Now let's move to CS. I like elements of CS but it was poorly executed. Why does area 52 have such a small amount of guards? Why do we need the mystery of the Ark location revealed? Why is the magnetic properties of the alien selective? The opening scene is overall fine by me but just a few points I've noticed. I also would have picked another actor for Indy's son. Shia is not believable in the role. Overall the movie is decent until Marion is included. Not because of Marion but because the movie goes downhill at that point. The sandpit scene is campy and terrible, the truck scene is extremely cgi and fake looking. It takes me out of the film. All the action in the truck scene is so far fetched it becomes ridiculous. The sword fight, the anti soviet monkeys, the blade of the tree cutter going through their vehicle and it still runs and they survive, Spalkos vehicle running over the top of the hero's and no one is hurt. The rubber tree is also bad film making and so is the waterfall scene. I don't mind the rest of the film but those are some areas that need some definite improvement.

I concur with all those points.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:16 PM   #13
ATMachine
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I'faith, your fancies here could muralize
The shining silver walls of palaces.


(Been watching too much Twilight Zone lately, I think... )
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:07 AM   #14
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Raiders of the Lost Ark - Make all of the snakes in the Well of Souls Egyptian Cobras i.e. Asps; very dangerous instead of the non-indigenous species and legless lizards seen.

Temple of Doom - Those aren't birds comment they are giant vampire bats. Vampire bats are tiny, just erase the vampire part and have him say giant bats (they are flying foxes that eat fruit). Get rid of the American Alligators and replace them with Mugger Crocodiles actually found in India.
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Old 01-19-2016, 07:40 AM   #15
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Tone down the comedy turn from Marcus in TLC. Other than that theres very little I would change about any of them.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:44 PM   #16
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If you could change the plot?

If you could change the plot of any of the trilogy, what would you change?

For a start, I'd dump Willie singing Anything Goes. Irritating as heck.
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Old 09-24-2017, 04:19 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by JollyGreenSlugg

For a start, I'd dump Willie singing Anything Goes. Irritating as heck.

Great start to the movie. Love it.

What would I change about the first three movies? Nothing.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao_Che
I could have done without the hammer bouncing off that Thuggee's head.

That's the one scene that has always kind of bugged me. There's no reason for it to be there.

For the most part there isn't too much about the first three that I'd alter, although the editing in LC has always bothered me and some of the events in the film don't make sense because of it. There are a few edits that seem too quick or are trying to hide a lack of footage, though thankfully they're done sparingly. However, Indy's satchel is the real source of my issues...

For instance, the strap to Indy's satchel is cut by the knight at the end and falls to the floor, yet the edit is so quick that it's easy to miss. Heck, I was confused about it for years until someone on this forum mentioned it! The scene on the tank where Indy's hanging by his satchel is also confusing. How did he get stuck on that turret in the first place? He'd have to wrap his bag around the end of the turret and slide in, then after the fight he just pulls himself up and the bag comes too. It's a fun little scene but it's just too convenient and seems tacked on. I don't expect logic in an Indiana Jones film but I do take issue with solid objects passing through other solids. He also manages to put on his bag and all his gear in the castle in an instant, or so the editing makes it seem.

I guess you might say that my biggest gripes with LC stem from Indy's bag doing bizarre and impossible things. Sometimes you need some nerdy nit-picking to keep things interesting.

Last edited by IndyBuff : 09-25-2017 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:48 PM   #19
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What having Marcus kick some tail?

Do more than just "I'd rather spit in your face".
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Old 10-16-2017, 05:23 PM   #20
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A Longer Opening the ark scene.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:03 AM   #21
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I think LC got a bit confused about the Grail's powers. Catholic tradition has the Grail being 1. the cup at the Last Supper, 2. the cup with which Joseph of Aramathea caught the blood of Christ from his wounds on the cross, or 3. both. Christ's blood indeed heals all illnesses and injuries, as in the Roman centurion Longinus who stabbed him with the Spear - the blood ran down it - and cured his bad eyesight. However, this tradition doesn't mention anything about the Grail extending your lifespan.

(I assume they were thinking of 'He who drinks of this cup shall taste eternal life', but he meant eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven, not on Earth).
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:51 AM   #22
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A Longer Opening the ark scene.
I think I'm right in saying it was a longer scene and they cut it down in editing.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by AndyLGR
I think I'm right in saying it was a longer scene and they cut it down in editing.

Yes, You're right.
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