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Old 05-30-2010, 08:26 PM   #1
FedoraHead
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Did Mutt know his REAL NAME??

I did a search but wasn't 100% what words to search so sorry if talked about:

Marion say's Mutt's name is Henry Jones III, did Mutt know that? He doesn't seem to know he is a Jones, he believe he is a Williams. He does say he give himself the name Mutt. So what did he think his real name was? Henry Williams?
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:27 PM   #2
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She lied to him and said he was a Williams, she also lied and said his real father died in WW2.
But, Mutt is really a Jones. I wonder if it said Jones on his birth certificate, and if he ever seen it?
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:53 PM   #3
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He could have called himself Hank Williams
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:54 PM   #4
Matt deMille
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Maybe Mutt really was . . .

Maybe Mutt is really . . . Belloq's son. After all, in Raiders, it seems Bellow forced Marion into "doing something" aboard that submarine. Since Mutt was conceived at the time of this movie, is Marion just assuming Indy was the father? Was Belloq so bad in bed she just blocked that memory from her mind? Maybe Mutt could discover his real parentage and turn into Indy's new rival. THAT would be a twist Spielberg couldn't bring himself to shoot. Too bad, too. Belloq's son seeking to prove himself against "false father Indy" and avenge Belloq at the same time could make a damn good dramatic arc for a fifth Indy movie.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:41 PM   #5
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In another thread I was asking if anyone here knew how to write a movie script or at least the story. Matt deMille, I want you to do this. Your idea with Mutt is so far the only interesting and justifiable reason why Mutt should appear in Indy5. This is for a fan-made film, of course, since, as you already stated, Spielberg would touch this. And what a great pity. Oh well, it's up to us fans now...
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:13 PM   #6
Matt deMille
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Mutt Belloq

Thanks, Mickiana. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been suggested before. Well, I *did* write a script for an Indy 5 (since it won't be made, you are free to read it here: http://www.mattdemille.com/scripts.htm) that is Mutt-free. I did send this script (well, its treatment) to Lucasfilm and ran into the roadblock of "can't view unsolicited material". Common in Hollywood. Oh well.

I think Spielberg has an unrealized achilles heel, that of overdoing children. He loves children. And there's nothing wrong with that. But he tends to make his movies revolve around them, when oftentimes the movie is better off with adults acting like children, and letting us (children and adults alike) feel young through them. Having children literally in movies makes this escapism too self-conscious. I think when Spielberg and Lucas were younger (the days of Raiders, Jaws, the classic Star Wars, etc) they were still seeing things through the eyes of kids, but now, having had children themselves, they're viewing things through the wrong lens.

Well, I actually didn't mind Mutt. I think Shia is a good actor and has great respect for the work he does. Like Short Round, we might come to like Mutt over time. I think the real problem we have with Mutt is that the movie is titled "Indiana Jones". We want the movie to be about Indy, not someone else, and certainly not an entire platoon of adventurers. Each film gets more crowded, and it's less about Indy himself. Hence why my script is like Raiders was: Indy plus one sidekick at a time (they come and go, but it's never a gang).

I seem to be rambling here. Well, if I ever rewrite the script (or write a new one), I'll explore the "Mutt as Belloq's son" angle in depth. Personally, I think that's what Shia really needs -- A heel turn. You can almost see the angry, rebellious youth ready to go to the dark side or, as Belloq so nicely put it, to be nudged or pushed out of the light. Maybe Mutt could hear this very story told by Indy, fight the temptation of it, and finally give in. Telling that tale right, Lucas might also be able to redeem a bit more of the Star Wars prequels, about a youth's turn to the dark side done credibly.

And if Spielberg or Lucas read this, just so I don't torpedo my own film career, I did see Crystal Skulls in the theater 5 times, and total viewings of the Star Wars prequels hit 15.
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:37 PM   #7
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Oops. Just saw the moderator's post. If anyone wishes to continue this post, let's do it in the proper forum. Sorry 'bout the rules.
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:51 AM   #8
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I think the natural conclusion is that Mutt probably thought his "real" name was Henry Williams - then he gave himself the name Mutt. Mutt Williams.

Fair point about too many "sidekicks" in the film's ending - it's a common crticism and one I can't completely disagree with, as it probably bogs the ending down a bit.........the action in the first half of the film is probably more exciting and dramatic.

But, my defense is that it does reinforce the family theme of the film. You couldn't take characters out of the end without doing some MAJOR overhauls to the script - it would be a substantially different story.

I don't think there's any question that Spielberg is fond of the "family" story - I think that's either something you can relate to or not. But I don't think it has hampered his vision/technical skills or his ability to tell a great story.

Many of the younger audiences seem to be pretty cynical and don't really appreciate this aspect........'War of the Worlds' got hammered in those regards. And I just don't agree - I don't think it's warranted.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:25 AM   #9
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But how much did Spielberg have to do with the story writing?
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:45 AM   #10
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It doesn't make sense to me that Marion would name her son after Indy given that they had an acrimonious break-up and that Marion was concealing the existence of her baby from Indy and Indy's existence from it.

Very poorly thought out, IMO.

And, no, Mutt's legal name would never have been "Henry Jones", given that Marion was never married to Indy and was obviously concealing the truth about Mutt's parentage. Since she hooked up with Williams while pregnant, no reason to tell anyone anywhere the truth.
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:12 PM   #11
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
It doesn't make sense to me that Marion would name her son after Indy given that they had an acrimonious break-up and that Marion was concealing the existence of her baby from Indy and Indy's existence from it.

Very poorly thought out, IMO.

And, no, Mutt's legal name would never have been "Henry Jones", given that Marion was never married to Indy and was obviously concealing the truth about Mutt's parentage. Since she hooked up with Williams while pregnant, no reason to tell anyone anywhere the truth.

Yeah. Mutt wouldn't have known. The only reason Marion would have named him Henry was that she really couldn't wash her hands of Indy. That old love/hate thing they had going on.

Being born out of wedlock was a major sin back then, and still in is some quarters. So Marion would have little choice but to make him believe he's a Williams. Now he's found his real father, though, is he still a bastard?
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Being born out of wedlock was a major sin back then...So Marion would have little choice but to make him believe he's a Williams.
That was my first thought when I saw it in the theaters. In the 1950s, an unmarried woman having a child was a very different thing than it is now.
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:30 AM   #13
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTriple
That was my first thought when I saw it in the theaters. In the 1950s, an unmarried woman having a child was a very different thing than it is now.

...and even worse in the 1930s.
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
...and even worse in the 1930s.

Thank you.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by StoneTriple
Thank you.



I had similar problems a while ago, when I forgot to factor in the normal 9 months of pregnancy when considering how old Mutt was!

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Old 06-28-2010, 05:05 AM   #16
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In Australia, we'd say his real name is d**ckhead.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Maybe Mutt is really . . . Belloq's son. After all, in Raiders, it seems Bellow forced Marion into "doing something" aboard that submarine. Since Mutt was conceived at the time of this movie, is Marion just assuming Indy was the father? Was Belloq so bad in bed she just blocked that memory from her mind? Maybe Mutt could discover his real parentage and turn into Indy's new rival. THAT would be a twist Spielberg couldn't bring himself to shoot. Too bad, too. Belloq's son seeking to prove himself against "false father Indy" and avenge Belloq at the same time could make a damn good dramatic arc for a fifth Indy movie.
Ha! You're right that would make a pretty damn good movie. On the other hand I know Belloq had the power to force her into sleeping with him but do honestly think that Marion would agree to that?
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
But how much did Spielberg have to do with the story writing?
Particularly at this stage in his career........I think he has a lot to do with picking scripts and story ideas.

We already know he had a large influence for Indy 4.

In addition to 'Last Crusade' - 'Hook,' 'Jurassic Park' to a certain extent, 'The Lost World,' 'War of the Worlds,' 'Crystal Skull'........all have some sort of family type of theme.

He's also said he would've handled 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' differently today.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #19
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Mutt as Belloq's son is an interesting idea but it wouldn't really fit after KOTCS since Indy's character journey was about him being alone (losing Henry Sr. and Marcus and his job and reputation) but gaining a son and a wife at the end. Also making Indy deal with a son so unlike him is great after Henry Sr. having to deal with Indy.

It might make a neat fan-fiction story though. . .
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:29 AM   #20
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I agree Mister64, it did work as it was, but I'm just tired of Spielberg's every movie being the same family story. It's like when an "actor" (read: movie star) plays himself in every role. Basically, we get the same movie over-and-over again. One of the things that made the Indiana Jones franchise so dynamic, so magical, was we didn't know what was going to happen. But when the "family story" came in, we knew EXACTLY what was going to happen. Kinda takes the fun out of it.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #21
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister64
Mutt as Belloq's son is an interesting idea but it wouldn't really fit after KOTCS since Indy's character journey was about him being alone (losing Henry Sr. and Marcus and his job and reputation) but gaining a son and a wife at the end. Also making Indy deal with a son so unlike him is great after Henry Sr. having to deal with Indy.

It might make a neat fan-fiction story though. . .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
I agree Mister64, it did work as it was, but I'm just tired of Spielberg's every movie being the same family story. It's like when an "actor" (read: movie star) plays himself in every role. Basically, we get the same movie over-and-over again. One of the things that made the Indiana Jones franchise so dynamic, so magical, was we didn't know what was going to happen. But when the "family story" came in, we knew EXACTLY what was going to happen. Kinda takes the fun out of it.

Having said that, Indy V could make amends by throwing in an unexpected twist right at the start. Indy might want to be alone again after spending too long with Marion and Mutt...

The family cramps his adventuring ability, not to mention his philandering...
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