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Old 06-30-2010, 08:09 PM   #26
StoneTriple
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Originally Posted by emtiem
If you don't enjoy them I don't see how you can enjoy the rest of it.

Sorry kid, but I do. I can't help you with that.

Franchise I've been on board with since day one - love.
Few minutes of scenes written for children - tolerate.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by emtiem
I never realised that Indy fans disliked Indy so much before I came here. I wouldn't change a thing about any of the originals.

Neither would I - which is exactly the point I've been trying to make.

For the record; I'm on vacation next week and will be staying home (have a carry-over week from last year that I need to use up). While I'm home, I'll be enjoying an Indiana Jones marathon - every minute of all four films, while wearing my Kingdom t-shirt. I'll probably read one of the McCoy novels as well.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by StoneTriple
While I'm home, I'll be enjoying an Indiana Jones marathon - every minute of all four films, while wearing my Kingdom t-shirt. I'll probably read one of the McCoy novels as well.

And God bless you for it!!







Oh and I have a Kingdom T-Shirt too! I got the last one at an entertainment store last week.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTriple
Sorry kid, but I do. I can't help you with that.

Franchise I've been on board with since day one - love.
Few minutes of scenes written for children - tolerate.
There are lighthearted moments for sure in Indiana Jones, but I always found the humor genuinely entertaining (and not juvenile or unclever).


I've also been meaning to have my own Indy marathon (haven't done it yet).......this might be the weekend - good way to celebrate the 4th of July.

And if you're talking about the black T-shirt with the teaser poster on it? Ya, I'm a dork, I'll be wearing that too.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:17 PM   #30
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My t-shirt is black with just the logo.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by StoneTriple
Sorry kid, but I do. I can't help you with that.

Franchise I've been on board with since day one - love.
Few minutes of scenes written for children - tolerate.

Well, fine. I think it's sad that someone can't embrace their inner child whilst watching such an exuberant and fun film series. I get swept along in the whole thing; there's nothing I have to merely 'tolerate'. And that doesn't make me a 'kid'; I don't find stuff unenjoyable just because its accessible to kids.

Indiana Jones is as good as this family adventure genre's ever going to get and Raiders is pretty much the perfect incarnation of that.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dr.Jonesy
I have a Kingdom T-Shirt too! I got the last one at an entertainment store last week.

Soooo - it was you!

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Old 07-02-2010, 02:13 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cole
There are lighthearted moments for sure in Indiana Jones, but I always found the humor genuinely entertaining (and not juvenile or unclever).

I agree that lighthearted moments are an essential ingredient of an Indy movie. After all, comedy gives movie-makers the opportunity to literally get away with murder.

Yet one moment in KOTCS that I wouldn't mind seeing cut is the snake thrown to Indy in the sandpit. To me it's just not funny, it's absurd, but not absurdly funny like the flying fridge.

The only thing it adds is that Mutt has inherited the luck of his father, in running off into the jungle and picking up a boa constrictor like they're dangling off every tree. Cutting down a hanging liana vine would have made much more sense and saved this scene.
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:31 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I agree that lighthearted moments are an essential ingredient of an Indy movie. After all, comedy gives movie-makers the opportunity to literally get away with murder.

Yet one moment in KOTCS that I wouldn't mind seeing cut is the snake thrown to Indy in the sandpit. To me it's just not funny, it's absurd, but not absurdly funny like the flying fridge.

The only thing it adds is that Mutt has inherited the luck of his father, in running off into the jungle and picking up a boa constrictor like they're dangling off every tree. Cutting down a hanging liana vine would have made much more sense and saved this scene.

Yes but just picking up a vine is boring... and if you look at it from a screenwriters stand point... you have to deal with indy's fear of snakes some where... where else?

I hated Kingdom of the Crystal Skull... but that scene was warranted. plus its an exposition scene about Indy being mutts dad. where the hell else are you gonna put that? That scene was warranted.

Unless some one can come up with some thing better that fits into the pot which we call Crystal Skull.
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:04 AM   #35
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Yes but just picking up a vine is boring... and if you look at it from a screenwriters stand point... you have to deal with indy's fear of snakes some where... where else?

I hated Kingdom of the Crystal Skull... but that scene was warranted. plus its an exposition scene about Indy being mutts dad. where the hell else are you gonna put that? That scene was warranted.

Unless some one can come up with some thing better that fits into the pot which we call Crystal Skull.

They could have had snakes anywhere in the jungle - one could have dropped off a tree during the chase, and added another dimension to Indy's involvement in the battle. It just seemed like a very cheap gag. I could even accept the vine swinging monkeys more easily than the snake.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:02 AM   #36
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I see how it could be seen as "forced" merely because Indy's fear of snakes is so iconic........but I don't know, I guess it's one of those things you can go with or not. You can't really get around that.

I love Harrison Ford's expressions as he's saying "I think I can feel the bottom." I've always loved all of Ford's little charismatic expressions as Indiana Jones.

And then I thought it was a good way of breaking the news about Mutt......."Why the hell didn't you make him finish school?"

I don't know, I guess it's just a difference of preference - but I liked this kind of stuff.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:54 PM   #37
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I think a much better place to have snakes would have been entering the temple (behind the waterfall). Indy says the crystal skull commanded him to go in, then he sees a hall full of snakes, and has to muster the courage to do so. It could also have been a good bonding moment with Mutt, to show him how to overcome things, or have Mutt even encourage Indy. In any event, the temple was pretty empty. They just walked through it. If the floor and walls had been covered with snakes, it would've been a hundred times more interesting.
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:36 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
I think a much better place to have snakes would have been entering the temple (behind the waterfall). Indy says the crystal skull commanded him to go in, then he sees a hall full of snakes, and has to muster the courage to do so.

Well, he wouldn't, actually...they've got the skull with them. Which would make for a nice gag - Indy, for once, confidently striding into a room with a couple big snakes - but then they'd need to come up with another way of escaping the Ugha. (Or, honestly, maybe doing away with them all together.)
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Well, he wouldn't, actually...they've got the skull with them. Which would make for a nice gag - Indy, for once, confidently striding into a room with a couple big snakes...)

That could have been done very well and would have really put the snake-fear gag on it's ear. Well done, sir.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:30 PM   #40
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Why don't you start a petition, then? Let's see how far you get with it.

You mean GL and SS don't frequent The Raven?

Sure, it's an idea, one for someone with connections. And time. That's not me.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:05 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
They could have had snakes anywhere in the jungle - one could have dropped off a tree during the chase, and added another dimension to Indy's involvement in the battle. It just seemed like a very cheap gag. I could even accept the vine swinging monkeys more easily than the snake.

I agree they could do away with the quicksand scene. Just have them escape unsuccessfully, have Dovchenko punch Mutt & Indy for trying to escape and burning up the tent with alien mummy corpse and they all wake up tied in the Russian truck would be OK to me.

The scene may seem necessary (to have Marion proclaim Mutt is Indy's son) but I think it was badly thought out. Having Marion tell Indy could work even better later at the part where they were surrounded by the Mayan / native tribe, before Oaxley takes out the skull. Now that would be an awkward moment for all of them.

To show Indy's fear of snakes could appear anywhere - right after Mutt encounters his scorpions, for example. It is well known that Indy has a fear of snakes, but the first 3 trilogy has shown that he took them well enough to be a fairly minor nuisance - I can't believe Indy sat with Reggie in Jock's plane, and later went into a temple full of snakes in Raiders, and yet he can't touch a snake to save himself in Skull. By that logic he would've killed himself in 1936 by jumping out of Jock's plane from Reggie already.

And the "riiiip" sound as Indy tries to free himself and Mutt's expression right after that in the truck SHOULD be removed entirely. And the bike.
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:01 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Well, he wouldn't, actually...they've got the skull with them. Which would make for a nice gag - Indy, for once, confidently striding into a room with a couple big snakes - but then they'd need to come up with another way of escaping the Ugha. (Or, honestly, maybe doing away with them all together.)

Actually, that opens up another idea. It's in the Raiders script but so subtle in the film you don't notice -- The snakes in the Well of Souls stay away from the Ark because of some unknown energy. The crystal skull does the same thing, only this time we see it (it chases away the ants). Indy could go behind the waterfall, see the snakes, have a moment of fear, but then as the snakes flee the skull's energy, Indy's bond with the strange relic strengthens. He then resolves to go further, be that doing the skull's bidding or having finally turned the corner to being the fearless adventurer again -- or both.
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Old 07-12-2010, 12:22 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Indy could go behind the waterfall, see the snakes, have a moment of fear, but then as the snakes flee the skull's energy, Indy's bond with the strange relic strengthens. He then resolves to go further, be that doing the skull's bidding or having finally turned the corner to being the fearless adventurer again -- or both.

That's a very interesting idea. maybe even tweak it to a sort of a Frodo and the ring type of deal. Indy starts to become comfortable with the power it gives him, to the point of being somewhat possessive of it - but not because it told him to - but because he's protected by it. Instead of magical skull powers, we start to see Indy "falling from the pure faith" again - a sort of continuation the "fortune and glory, kid" part of his personality.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:54 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Walton
You mean GL and SS don't frequent The Raven?

Sure, it's an idea, one for someone with connections. And time. That's not me.
Hey, Wally, you're the one who started this thread and suggested a petition. "Sure, it's an idea", yes, a fruitless one. Anyway, a person doesn't need connections to start a petition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walton
They release Director's Cut Blu-Rays and DVDs all the time. So why not a Director's Cut/Re-Cut? Why not a petition? Steven, Harrison, George...this movie is not beyond help. We like it...we want to enjoy it as much as the trilogy. You "fixed" classic Star Wars, so...actually fix KOTCS.
Didn't know Spielberg was involved in the "Star Wars" Special Editions! What do those re-releases or Harrison have to do with a re-cut of "Skull"? At the end of the day, it's Steven's movie. Like others have said, films aren't re-cut on demand just to satisfy the whims of disgruntled film-goers.

I'm all for seeing deleted scenes & alternate takes but this conversation has moved into fantasy/wish territory with imaginary sequences. Unless new scenes are shot, a film can't be re-cut with footage that doesn't exist. Keep it real, eh?
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Stoo
I'm all for seeing deleted scenes & alternate takes but this conversation...

All our potential paths not taken aside, deleted scenes are about all I ever watch on DVDs and even then not all the time. I've listened to director\actor commentary tracks a couple of times and I almost never watch behind the scenes documentaries of films I really like.

I don't care to have the magic taken away. An occasional article is interesting enough, I suppose, but I have no desire to have the film deconstructed. That's why I'm not up to speed on all the models, paintings and CGI of the Indiana Jones series. I didn't seek out that information. Not in 1981, not now. I guess that's why I never think a film needs to be "corrected & improved".
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:19 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by StoneTriple
That's a very interesting idea. maybe even tweak it to a sort of a Frodo and the ring type of deal. Indy starts to become comfortable with the power it gives him, to the point of being somewhat possessive of it - but not because it told him to - but because he's protected by it. Instead of magical skull powers, we start to see Indy "falling from the pure faith" again - a sort of continuation the "fortune and glory, kid" part of his personality.

I like that. We've already seen how the skull can become possessive of someone (Oxley), so we'd see the fate Indy might be walking into, even if he doesn't. We'd fear for him. I guess that's one problem I *do* have with KOTCS, that the characters move from one action sequence to the next in a sort of connect-the-dots fashion. Sure, there's logical reasons they move, but there's seldom a really deep fear for the characters' fates going on. If the crystal skull were starting to overcome Indy's better sense, it would up the ante for the next sequence. Alas.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by StoneTriple
That's a very interesting idea. maybe even tweak it to a sort of a Frodo and the ring type of deal. Indy starts to become comfortable with the power it gives him, to the point of being somewhat possessive of it - but not because it told him to - but because he's protected by it. Instead of magical skull powers, we start to see Indy "falling from the pure faith" again - a sort of continuation the "fortune and glory, kid" part of his personality.

That would have been quite nice; a bit blood-of-Kali maybe but a nice idea.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:38 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
I think a much better place to have snakes would have been entering the temple (behind the waterfall). Indy says the crystal skull commanded him to go in, then he sees a hall full of snakes, and has to muster the courage to do so. It could also have been a good bonding moment with Mutt, to show him how to overcome things, or have Mutt even encourage Indy. In any event, the temple was pretty empty. They just walked through it. If the floor and walls had been covered with snakes, it would've been a hundred times more interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Which would make for a nice gag - Indy, for once, confidently striding into a room with a couple big snakes - but then they'd need to come up with another way of escaping the Ugha.
How could your fantasy segment be part of a director's cut/re-cut? Was anything like this actually filmed? No? Didn't think so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTriple
Not in 1981, not now. I guess that's why I never think a film needs to be "corrected & improved".
StoneTriple, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you but, in this very thread, you're talking about tweaking the film & suggesting alternate takes on certain scenes.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:05 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Stoo
How could your fantasy segment be part of a director's cut/re-cut? Was anything like this actually filmed? No? Didn't think so...

***

StoneTriple, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you but, in this very thread, you're talking about tweaking the film & suggesting alternate takes on certain scenes.

I think you're conflating two different issues. Talking about the road not taken is different than actually wishing for such things to somehow be added into the film. The first is a method of critique; the second is an attempt at denying reality. And the gag idea that I tossed off was actually originally intended as a rebuttal to suggestions on how to "fix" the snake sequence as it exists. It's just happened to grow some legs.

(Stepping into moderator mode for a second: apart from Stoo's broader point, which is still up to question, he's got an implicit point here that some of the wishful thinking going on here doesn't belong in this thread. Maybe try to refocus discussion on actual questions of a recut.)
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:02 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I think you're conflating two different issues. Talking about the road not taken is different than actually wishing for such things to somehow be added into the film. The first is a method of critique; the second is an attempt at denying reality. And the gag idea that I tossed off was actually originally intended as a rebuttal to suggestions on how to "fix" the snake sequence as it exists. It's just happened to grow some legs.

(Stepping into moderator mode for a second: apart from Stoo's broader point, which is still up to question, he's got an implicit point here that some of the wishful thinking going on here doesn't belong in this thread. Maybe try to refocus discussion on actual questions of a recut.)

Since a 're-cut' is a new edit of a film, they can only use or delete film that they've already made. So, a discussion of what might have been could really only encompass ideas that 'might' already be on film, and just not used in the theatrical cut.

Re-cutting KOTCS to make it a 'better' movie for some would end up with it being a very short feature, as there would be little else to insert to make up for the missing sections. Keeping KOTCS at a reasonable length would be like that snake that grew legs and wandered off as a lizard: it would be an entirely different film, and not just a re-cut.
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