Indy's Fist
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Rocket Surgeon said:
But,but,but it was all a joke. Just like Indy & Marion's genes'. It was all just a joke. I love my girls, very much. This is all so wrong.
Why do (some) people dislike Mutt Williams
- Thread starter Indy_Forever
- Start date
But,but,but it was all a joke. Just like Indy & Marion's genes'. It was all just a joke. I love my girls, very much. This is all so wrong.
Violet
Moderator Emeritus
Junior Jones said:As my father-in-law used to say: "Boys are better than girls, but girls are better than nothing."
*Violet Indy creeps up on Junior Jones with a frying pan and shouts*
But not when the girl's got a frying pan!
WA-BANG! *we need a Marion emoticon with a frying pan*
Darth Vile
New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I?m not sure how that concept would improve upon what?s already there? especially as those who don?t like Mutt seem not to like the focus he received. The issue with the Indy/Mutt dynamic (if indeed there is a issue), is that we don?t really get to see the affect/consequences of Marion?s revelation (give or take a few glib and throwaway lines), and ultimately we don?t get to see the Indy/Mutt relationship undergo any form of metamorphosis.
I think that change of relationship between father and son was largely achieved in ?Last Crusade? (albeit in a relatively shallow manner), and although KOTCS aspired to get some of that emotional resonance, it fell short in some respects. Even a brief heart to heart moment, during the final reel, between the two could have improved that dynamic significantly. Oh well...
MaxPhactor23
New member
It's not so much that I dislike the character. He's really not that bad. It's the corny action beats and silly twists they did with the character that I disliked. It just went above and beyond anything in prior Indiana Jones film. It went to this new extreme of heightened. Some of those scenes were just so absurdly ridiculous...
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Agent Crab
New member
Same reason why people dislike Scrappy Doo?
Mutt's not a bad character. The scene with the monkeys was kinda.. cheesy. I like him, but I wouldn't go to the bare bones and teeth to defend him.
Mutt's not a bad character. The scene with the monkeys was kinda.. cheesy. I like him, but I wouldn't go to the bare bones and teeth to defend him.
Indy_Forever
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How is a Greaser not cool?Forbidden Eye said:
Lol,
Robyn
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MaxPhactor23 said:It's not so much that I dislike the character. He's really not that bad. It's the corny action beats and silly twists they did with the character that I disliked. It just went above and beyond anything in prior Indiana Jones film. It went to this new extreme of heightened. Some of those scenes were just so absurdly ridiculous...
I know a lot of people hated the vine swing but I hated the sword fight! The sword fight was the pits.. It was so unbelievable that he could possibly keep his balance with a foot on two cars and at the speed they were going at and being hit in the nuts at the same time
but like I said, the father/son thing has been done over and over, first Shorty/Indy and then Indy/Dad and then Indy/Mutt.. it would have been so much more interesting to see him with a daughter this time
Indy_Forever said:How is a Greaser not cool?
Mutt was too full of himself to be cool
The Drifter
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ronicle said:
I did not mind that Indy had a son, but why did the son have to be so tough? I'd rather had seen Mutt as the nerdy, academic type.
Robyn
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Lonsome_Drifter said:
Actually I think I would have liked that much better! That's the part I hated the most about Mutt, he's trying way to hard to be tough/cool and it's annoying with him thinking he's so great and fixing his hair all the time and stuff.. it would have been a lot more fun if Mutt was a humble shy/nerd and Indy teaches him to be cool!
BadDates
New member
ronicle said:
I just wanted to say that I totally agree with that. I think that the aspect of KotCS that most undermined it was that it made Indy seem incompetent and bumbling in several important scenes, e.g. the "quicksand" scene. In the OT Indy often made mistakes, got hurt and scraped through with a fair bit of luck, which in my view is precisely why he's so appealing as an "everyman hero" and more believable than a superhero. However,taking this too far and making him a buffoon just so that Mutt can seem cooler and save the day was a big miscalculation in my opinion. A nerdy* Mutt, who looked up to Indy and took advice from him, becoming more confident by the end of the film, would have preserved Indy's dignity and given me much more positive feelings towards the Mutt character. Just my two cents.
---
*Speaking as an unashamed nerd myself!
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
ronicle said:
I think the trying so hard to be cool was meant to be his insecurity coming through. Unfortunately it wasn't executed very well...if at all.
DocWhiskey
Well-known member
Yeah, I think Rocket's got it.
If anything, the movie proves how out of place the behavior of a greaser is in an Indy adventure. Mutt might be cool on his bike in his own environment, even though Indy pretty much explains his foolish behavior in the diner with one line ("You don't have to prove how tough you are by getting so sore all the time"). Makes Mutt look pretty shallow. Let's not forget in the cemetery when Mutt falls down the ladder when there's stairs right next to it. Or when he's frightened and starts combing his hair and Indy replies "cut that out". It shows how insecure Mutt is when he's out of his element. But he wasn't made into a bumbling moron, and he had his shining moments. But Indy still shined brighter IMO.
If anything, the movie proves how out of place the behavior of a greaser is in an Indy adventure. Mutt might be cool on his bike in his own environment, even though Indy pretty much explains his foolish behavior in the diner with one line ("You don't have to prove how tough you are by getting so sore all the time"). Makes Mutt look pretty shallow. Let's not forget in the cemetery when Mutt falls down the ladder when there's stairs right next to it. Or when he's frightened and starts combing his hair and Indy replies "cut that out". It shows how insecure Mutt is when he's out of his element. But he wasn't made into a bumbling moron, and he had his shining moments. But Indy still shined brighter IMO.
Stoo
Well-known member
I've said it before but if Mutt's a "Greaser", he sure is using something drier than pommade. Looks like mousse, to me. Mutt is NOT a greezer, he's a moozer!Indy_Forever said:How is a Greaser not cool?
Anyway, his insecurities are a great part of his character. For those who would have preferred a daughter, you are either too Marion-centric...or sex-starved.
Robyn
New member
Stoo said:For those who would have preferred a daughter, you are either too Marion-centric...or sex-starved.
sex-starved? That doesn't even make any sense.
I wanted to see a father/daughter thing for a change since we've already gotten the father/son thing a lot already, what do we have to repeat the father/son theme forever? I still hope they do get a daughter if Indy 5 happens, even if they adopted one
Stoo
Well-known member
I beg to differ. Take a look at some of the posts sprinkled throughout this forum. They would suggest otherwise...ronicle said:sex-starved? That doesn't even make any sense.
Don't mean to be so harsh but your problem is that you want Indiana Jones to be "The Thin Man". Anyway, you may be happy/sad to know that Indy did enventually have a daughter and she had red hair...(as in: not Marion's kid but probably Sophia Hapgood's.ronicle said:
)Over the past year, it seems as if many people hated Mutt simply because he was played by Shia. In all honesty, I had no exposure to him before "Skull" and his character didn't bother me at all. Yes, there was too much focus on him during the jungle chase but what can we do about it? Nothing...
Robyn
New member
Stoo said:I beg to differ. Take a look at some of the posts sprinkled throughout this forum. They would suggest otherwise...
And there couldn't possibly be any other reason that some people wanted Indy to have a daughter instead of a son other than being sex-starved?
Don't mean to be so harsh but your problem is that you want Indiana Jones to be "The Thin Man". Anyway, you may be happy/sad to know that Indy did enventually have a daughter and she had red hair...(as in: not Marion's kid but probably Sophia Hapgood's.
I don't know how you think I want Indy to be the thin man because I want him to have a daughter.. but whatever... and my sister has red hair, but my parents have brown hair, I don't think hair color means anything
Forbidden Eye
Well-known member
Indy_Forever said:How is a Greaser not cool?
Greasers are cool...when they're played by Marlon Brando, James Dean, hell, even Henry Wrinkler. Shia didn't particularly add anything add anything those three actors for example didn't already portray(although perhaps Koepp is more to blame for this than Shia).
I think what also toned down any coolness is that greasers are suppose to be independent rebels who went opposite of the crowd and followed their own rules. In KOTCS, it seemed Mutt was simply following a trend(as evident in the diner).
I would never think of Indiana Jones as trend-follower. I've always viewed him as an independent thinker following his own path. That's what makes him so engaging and what Mutt didn't have going for him
indyrocks1936
New member
I thought Mutt was a great character to add to the Indiana Jones franchise. However, I sometimes wonder how Indy would react with a daughter. I do have this idea however. Willie could come back to tell him that he and her had an unexpected daughter. And of course, who wouldn't want to see Marion's reaction when Indy would tell her of another child? Lol! I think she would punch him right in the face like in Raiders, wouldn't you? 
Violet
Moderator Emeritus
Stoo said:I beg to differ. Take a look at some of the posts sprinkled throughout this forum. They would suggest otherwise...
Don't mean to be so harsh but your problem is that you want Indiana Jones to be "The Thin Man". Anyway, you may be happy/sad to know that Indy did enventually have a daughter and she had red hair...(as in: not Marion's kid but probably Sophia Hapgood's.
Over the past year, it seems as if many people hated Mutt simply because he was played by Shia. In all honesty, I had no exposure to him before "Skull" and his character didn't bother me at all. Yes, there was too much focus on him during the jungle chase but what can we do about it? Nothing...
Hey she might have dyed it!!!
Come on there's no evidence that Sophia and Indy went to bed.... then again there is that Youtube collection of soundbits from FoA... funniest thing ever! (I will hit you with the frying pan should you say I'm starved 
). You know, I dye my hair red, both parents have dark and brown hair (real colour is brown) and you know, because the dye colour suits me a lot of people never realised that my hair's been dyed. Also it has been mentioned before by someone who attempted a timeline (it was posted a little while back and the person did get it pretty damn close to what it is now) that Susan "Daphne" could have been an orphan that Indy and Marion adopt in 1959-60. And Caroline is Mutt's daughter right? Personally, I like to think Spike is Mutt's boy.
Anyway, I don't actually hate Mutt. I didn't hate him the first time and I still don't. Sure, admittedly a daughter would have been interesting, but I think to some extent, the family arguments would have tired the audience to exhaustion more because of being a girl and Indy having to face up to hurting Marion what twice in a lifetime and having to deal with a girl when he's used to dealing with guys, boys and bad guys. It would have been good, if there had been a male love interest (perhaps Mutt in that place) and Indy having to deal with that as well as a new daughter relationship.
If there was an Indy V perhaps there can be a girl in the story that Mutt falls for, who has lost her family to the MacGuffin (kind of a Marion/Abner thing) and Indy and her form kind of daughter/father sort of relationship. I don't know, I have to develop the idea further.
I prefer Mutt being insecure and thinking himself as cool rather than he being a nerd. Again, I think that would have made the film stop and start again continuously, and it would feel at least in the 1st half like a Jar Jar Binks character. My problems with KOTCS was not with Mutt, more with the things he did as in the Tarzan swing and yeah, the bushes were pretty ridiculous, though the sword fight was pretty cool, ultimately though, the jungle chase takes up a lot of the film and kind of wish it was broken up into two smaller chases, one involving the Jungle Cutter and the duck/cars later not altogether. Nothing we can do about it now though I'm surprised people haven't gone out and filmed a new KOTCS themselves inserting alternate scenes and lines.