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Old 05-30-2003, 03:37 PM   #1
Pale Horse
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The Tree of Life

I know there have been countless discussions about the next artifact, heck I have even started some, but I think I may truly be onto something here and wonder if it merits another thread.

Considering current world events (specifically the middle east and dna cloning) Is it possible the artifact could be the Tree of life mentioned in Gen. 3:22-23? Not only would it fullfill and challenge Biblical prophesy, but it would serve as a symbolic cinematic mark of the beliefs of George and Speilburg. (They are so fond of 'preaching' in their more current endeavors.)

For those who need specifics:

Man had become like God by eating of the tree of knowledge. (Which means can be omnicient)

If we eat of the Tree of life, we will live forever.

Unfortunately there is so much I can spin off this, I have to stop and see if anyone can entertain these concepts in the same way.
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Old 05-30-2003, 10:33 PM   #2
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Indiana Jones and the Tree of Life? Needs a little work...

Indiana Jones and the Garden of Life, Indiana Jones and the Fruit of Knowledge, Indiana Jones and the Garden of Knowledge, needs more B-movie flair but has some potential. Just needs more action in the title. Indiana Jones and the Garden of the Serpent, Indiana Jones and the Final Temptation, well, you might have something, but I'll be damned if I can find a title....
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Old 05-31-2003, 04:03 AM   #3
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I really think that Indy going after a big tree would not have the same impact as the Ark or the Grail; after all it is still an oversized shrub. I just have this horrible nightmare vision of Indy going through an enormous CGI Eden
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Old 05-31-2003, 07:19 AM   #4
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Why is everybody around here so revolted by CGI? I didn't mind it in the Oscar winning Gladiator. It didn't bother me in Forrest Gump (The Savannah House was all Digital - to my own surprise) so what's the problem? Chances are you won't even notice anyway...
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Old 05-31-2003, 01:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by thegreatimposter
Why is everybody around here so revolted by CGI? I didn't mind it in the Oscar winning Gladiator. It didn't bother me in Forrest Gump (The Savannah House was all Digital - to my own surprise) so what's the problem? Chances are you won't even notice anyway...

Let us look at the last Indy esque example of CGI - The Mummr Returns; whole environments were CGI it just looked really out of place. Even more so in an Indy film because the Indy films generally depend on interaction with his environment Indy is an earthy hero and does not belong in CGI Environments
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Old 06-01-2003, 07:57 PM   #6
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Three Words-- Director Director Director

Mummy returns, sure, but Indy's directed by Spielberg, the man who brought Dino's to life and made 'em look spectacular. I crapped my pants when the T-Rex ravaged the car with the kids in it.

I think he can pull off a background or two...
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Old 06-01-2003, 08:19 PM   #7
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I think there can be a compromise: Most of the film can be CGI free until the end. This is where the bad guy(s) die, and we can see them die in a particularily awe-inspiring way. For instance, I think if we updated the opening of the Ark with today's technology it would look a little more polished.
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Old 06-01-2003, 08:35 PM   #8
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guys, im gonna have to agree with thegreatimposter on the director thing. spielberg is a genius, and unless he's out of his mind, he won't screw indy four with CGI...if he even uses
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Old 06-02-2003, 05:19 AM   #9
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Hmm..

Tree of Life = Fountain of Youth = Garden of Eden


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Old 06-02-2003, 07:26 AM   #10
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I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss the possibility of a tree. Look at what we've seen so far:

1. The Ark (okay, that was cool.)
2. A few rocks... whoopee!
3. A shoddy looking cup

So why not a tree? With a good enough story surrounding it, I think it could work.

Oh, and if we have The Tree of Life and The Garden of Eden, wouldn't that be a great chance to have a bit of fun with Indy's fear of snakes?


[Edited by Randy_Flagg on 06-02-2003 at 08:46 am]
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:55 PM   #11
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I've mentioned this before, but I don't know that anybody has ever responded...

The Garden of Eden idea seems to be the popular theory these days, but didn't it also say that the Garden was protected by a Sword of Fire that would strike down anybody who found it?

Not much room to wiggle, there...




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Old 06-04-2003, 09:42 PM   #12
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hmmmm... Gonna need a source on that one...
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:49 PM   #13
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So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis 3:24
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by lornconner
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis 3:24

That could make the Eden thing more interesting than if it were just an apple tree in a garden. I'm not sure how Indy would get past it... maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he'd be trying to stop a friend who was obsessed with finding the garden. In any case, it opens some possibilities for cool looking scenes.

It also opens up more title possibilities:

"Indiana Jones and The Flames of Eden" sounds pretty cool.





[Edited by Randy_Flagg on 06-05-2003 at 08:37 am]
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Old 06-05-2003, 08:04 AM   #15
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Stop a Friend

I think this is one of the most insightful thoughts to grace these pages in a while. Indy is old, tired and done with "hunting" for the most part. A prodigy (or friend) comes along, hears of some fun (yet dangerous) artifact and decides to find it. Indy, having almost died several times before, has to keep him from getting it.

I think it's brillant.

I really don't think Indy is the type of archeologist who would go looking for Eden, but maybe someone under him is.
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Old 06-05-2003, 08:53 AM   #16
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Re: Stop a Friend

Quote:
Originally posted by apalehorse
I think this is one of the most insightful thoughts to grace these pages in a while. Indy is old, tired and done with "hunting" for the most part. A prodigy (or friend) comes along, hears of some fun (yet dangerous) artifact and decides to find it. Indy, having almost died several times before, has to keep him from getting it.

I think it's brillant.

I really don't think Indy is the type of archeologist who would go looking for Eden, but maybe someone under him is.

Thanks. I was even thinking that this could tie in to what some people suggested before-- Perhaps it's a former student who goes looking for Eden. He/she ask for Indy's help, but since Indy already knows how close he's come to death in the past, he tries to dissuade the student from getting involved. The student goes anyway, and Indy somehow gets involved reluctantly, and of course, a much bigger threat (whatever that might be) soon presents itself.

Taking it a step further-- the student could be the substitute for a kid. Many of us assume Indy will have a kid, even though Harrison said he won't. But Indy could still be a father figure, and thus feel the need to protect someone.
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Old 06-05-2003, 10:58 AM   #17
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Doing some research on this passage last night, I found that some interpret the Sword of Fire as representing the Word of God.

The Tree of Life granted eternal life, while the tree of Knowledge gave man the ability to discern good from evil. Once man had a conscience, he was cast out from the garden.

The way is actually guarded by the Cherubim (angels? spirits?), but the way THROUGH to the garden is by the Sword of Fire (or Word of God.) The sword keeps the way, and only those who come by the sword can pass the cherubim guardians.

If this interpretation were the one that was gone by, I would guess this sequence would be similar to the "Leap of Faith" in the Last Crusade. Cross it with the cherubim (spirits?) and you could have a nice blending of the spirits of those killed by the Ark, and the leap of Faith from Last Crusade.

It would also be a tidy way to explain that the Garden of Eden COULD be found without dying.

Also, I found a reference to an interesting plaque in Babylon that mentioned the Tree of Life and its probably location. I'll have to see if I can dig it up again and post the link.

If this IS the plot that they go with, I'd vote for "Indiana Jones and the Sword of Fire."


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Old 06-05-2003, 01:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by lornconner
Doing some research on this passage last night, I found that some interpret the Sword of Fire as representing the Word of God.

The Tree of Life granted eternal life, while the tree of Knowledge gave man the ability to discern good from evil. Once man had a conscience, he was cast out from the garden.

The way is actually guarded by the Cherubim (angels? spirits?), but the way THROUGH to the garden is by the Sword of Fire (or Word of God.) The sword keeps the way, and only those who come by the sword can pass the cherubim guardians.

If this interpretation were the one that was gone by, I would guess this sequence would be similar to the "Leap of Faith" in the Last Crusade. Cross it with the cherubim (spirits?) and you could have a nice blending of the spirits of those killed by the Ark, and the leap of Faith from Last Crusade.

It would also be a tidy way to explain that the Garden of Eden COULD be found without dying.

Also, I found a reference to an interesting plaque in Babylon that mentioned the Tree of Life and its probably location. I'll have to see if I can dig it up again and post the link.

If this IS the plot that they go with, I'd vote for "Indiana Jones and the Sword of Fire."


Lorn

Good job with the research! I'm starting to think this could all really work well as a movie, as long as it doesn't seem TOO similar to Last Crusade (we're treading on dangerous ground in that regard... what with eternal life and Leaps of Faith, etc.)

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Old 06-05-2003, 01:55 PM   #19
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The actual passage that I read on the site read as follows:


In Scripture, we first hear of Cherubim in Genesis 3:24, but we are not told what they are. After Adam's sin, we read that the Lord,

drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, (kerubim) and a flaming sword (chereb, destroying weapon) which turned every way, to keep the way of (to, as in the NASB) the tree of life.
Where is "east of the garden?" From Genesis 2:14, we find that the Garden of Eden was in the vicinity of the Euphrates River. Halley's Bible Handbook quotes an interesting ancient Babylonian inscription that shows that the garden was near Eridu, twelve miles south of Ur, where Abraham came from. The inscription said,

Near Eridu was a garden, in which was a mysterious Sacred Tree, a Tree of Life, planted by the gods, whose roots were deep, while its branches reached to heaven, protected by guardian spirits, and no man enters.
In Revelation 22:2, we find that the tree of life truly did reach Heaven. It is now in Heaven. It may come as a surprise, but east of the Garden of Eden can be anywhere between Earth and Heaven, which rises in our eastern sky."

Makes for some interesting speculation. If you're interested in the site where I found this, the link is http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/cherub.html



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Old 06-05-2003, 09:32 PM   #20
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Perhaps Indy is accompanied by Tim The Shrubber. They put a bush next to the Tree, only slightly higher to create a two level effect with a little path running down the middle. The villains will, of course, be the the Knights of Nee!!
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Old 06-06-2003, 04:07 AM   #21
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do you think they'll kill Indy? or maybe leave it as a cliffhanger, like maybe literally, maybe this student/kid could be the return of Short Round?

however i was always under the impression that the snake was actually the devil in disguise.

if it was the garden of Eden, it is well known for the temptation story so perhaps a title like.

"Indiana Jones and the Fires of Temptation" if the sword were also involved?
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Old 06-06-2003, 08:02 AM   #22
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I dont' think they'd kill Indy...it would break the nature of a serial adventure film. Even if this is going to be the last one, you never kill your main character.

The interesting thing about the Indiana Jones character is that he's grown in some way in each movie, so while I don't think you'll see anything as drastic as Indy dying, his perception of life and the things that are around him will change, further shaping his worldview.



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Old 06-06-2003, 08:43 AM   #23
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cliffhanger

I think if they are going to follow the true adventurer serial they should leave us wondering if in fact he is alive or dead. (A little like Shane) Don't know how this would translate into the film noir from the 50's, but sure would create a good marketing spin to drum up sales.

It would also be a nice thematic element if he finally gets the artifact from Eden, but somehow doesn't get to enjoy it; ie tree of life
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Old 06-06-2003, 10:24 AM   #24
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Garden of Eden

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Old 06-06-2003, 10:36 AM   #25
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A cliffhanger would make sense if they had more movies planned in the series, but it doesn't follow the established formula of the movies.

The established formula shows the wrapping up of the cliffhanger from Indys previous adventure in the opening of the movie. We always start the movie with the ending of an adventure that we don't get to see, but if this is to be the final Indy film, ending on a cliffhanger would anger the audience.

Expect a fulfilling ending, where Indy survives but learns an important truth.



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