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Old 05-12-2011, 12:51 PM   #76
Stoo
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Good for you, Michael! Better late than never.

The diagrams alone are worth the price of the book and fun to pore over. Whoever was hired to do those illustrations must have had a blast drawing them. Anyone know the artistís name?
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:13 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Good for you, Michael! Better late than never.

The diagrams alone are worth the price of the book and fun to pore over. Whoever was hired to do those illustrations must have had a blast drawing them. Anyone know the artist’s name?
I don't have it handy and will check it later if nobody responds.

The missing two Sankara stones that were placed in (oooh so close Thuggees), I wonder if that was something the artist was allowed to do, I'm guessing Lucas didn't give a sh!t where they were located.

But you're right though, he must've had a blast.
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:26 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by michael
I don't have it handy and will check it later if nobody responds.

The missing two Sankara stones that were placed in (oooh so close Thuggees), I wonder if that was something the artist was allowed to do, I'm guessing Lucas didn't give a sh!t where they were located.

But you're right though, he must've had a blast.

Yes, I loved looking at those! I sat there one day and looked at them for a few hours. And, the missing Sankara Stones being so close to where the Thuggee were digging was a great little touch.
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Old 05-12-2011, 04:25 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Stoo
The diagrams alone are worth the price of the book and fun to pore over. Whoever was hired to do those illustrations must have had a blast drawing them. Anyone know the artistís name?

The acknowledgement facing the title page reads: "Cutaway artworks by Richard Bonson and Richard Chasemore".

I'm also a big fan of that kind of art, and as with the Star Wars cutaway location and ship books, I can spend ages poring over them.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:28 AM   #80
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I have a couple of criticisms, because I'm a whiny loser who nitpicks way too much:

1. The book refers to Pat Roach's character in Last Crusade as a steward. His role is no mystery. He's called "Gestapo" in the credits. So how did James Luceno make this boo-boo?

2. This is a mistake everyone makes, but the guns used in the tank chase aren't Lugers, they're Walther P38's. The only character who wields a Luger in that sequence is Vogel. The weapon Indy shoots through three guys with, and tosses down to Henry, is a P38.

Beyond this, I liked the guide immensely although it could've used some more info on Dietrich. And despite using the comic book adaptations of the films, I'm also disappointed Luceno didn't use Vogel's first name Ernst given in the comic.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:06 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Kooshmeister
I have a couple of criticisms, because I'm a whiny loser who nitpicks way too much:

1. The book refers to Pat Roach's character in Last Crusade as a steward. His role is no mystery. He's called "Gestapo" in the credits. So how did James Luceno make this boo-boo?

2. This is a mistake everyone makes, but the guns used in the tank chase aren't Lugers, they're Walther P38's. The only character who wields a Luger in that sequence is Vogel. The weapon Indy shoots through three guys with, and tosses down to Henry, is a P38.

Beyond this, I liked the guide immensely although it could've used some more info on Dietrich. And despite using the comic book adaptations of the films, I'm also disappointed Luceno didn't use Vogel's first name Ernst given in the comic.
Welcome back to whiny loserville.

Add to your list Short Round wearing a NY Yankees cap...

It's reliance on the comic book content, while fun doesn't elevate the book in any credibility categoies. My favorite, and biggest comic peeve is the fate of the Golden Idol.

You can't blame the comic writers for taking the Marrakesh plot point and running with it, but the Complete Making of puts that little story out of it's misery, (you really do have to buy that book...what the hell are you waiting for?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The acknowledgement facing the title page reads: "Cutaway artworks by Richard Bonson and Richard Chasemore".

I'm also a big fan of that kind of art, and as with the Star Wars cutaway location and ship books, I can spend ages poring over them.
Richard Branson?!!

Sorry, reading that a bit too quick. The cut-aways are, indeed, the best part of the book. If only I could find Waldo!
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:52 PM   #82
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Welcome back to whiny loserville.

To quote someone else, we resemble that remark!

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Richard Branson?!!

Sorry, reading that a bit too quick.

The Invisible Hand could be going under a flimsy pseudonym...

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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
The cut-aways are, indeed, the best part of the book. If only I could find Waldo!

Turns out he was hiding in Pakistan under the noses of the local military. Sadly he's no longer with us as he wouldn't come quietly. Come to think of it, whatever happened to that Bin Laden chap?
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:41 PM   #83
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One thing I felt was that they dropped the ball on what part of Raiders to depict as one of those big paintings; I didn't care one bit about the layout of the Nazis' Tanis dig site. I was more interested in seeing the path the truck chase takes laid out, something they did in the James Bond DK guide.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:32 AM   #84
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Add the Light Trap to the list of flubs...

...though I'd rather not have to choose between drawings! An entire book of cross sections would be great.

Throw Indy in there, like a Waldo search and it's even better!
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:25 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshmeister
The only character who wields a Luger in that sequence is Vogel.
Which is unfortunate because you wouldn't think he would have a less-advanced weapon than his men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshmeister
Beyond this, I liked the guide immensely although it could've used some more info on Dietrich. And despite using the comic book adaptations of the films, I'm also disappointed Luceno didn't use Vogel's first name Ernst given in the comic.
His name isn't mentioned in the film at all.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:03 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Von Stalhein
Which is unfortunate because you wouldn't think he would have a less-advanced weapon than his men.

The Indiana Jones Wiki lists Vogel as a WWI veteran (although I'm uncertain what the source of this information is). Likely, his Luger is his old service sidearm.

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His name isn't mentioned in the film at all.

Neither is Toht's. What's your point?
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:28 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Kooshmeister
The Indiana Jones Wiki lists Vogel as a WWI veteran (although I'm uncertain what the source of this information is).
Do you deduce that from the iron cross he wears?

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Likely, his Luger is his old service sidearm.
A sensible hypothesis

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Neither is Toht's. What's your point?
I pointed it out because you said you were disappointed his first name wasn't mentioned. Am I missing something?
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:23 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Von Stalhein
Do you deduce that from the iron cross he wears?

I got it from the Indy Wiki, as mentioned. I'm unsure where it comes from (I'd originally thought this very book, but no such thing is mentioned), and I wasn't the one to add it to his bio. However it makes sense given his age and the time period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Stalhein
I pointed it out because you said you were disappointed his first name wasn't mentioned. Am I missing something?

Yeah, their first names aren't given in the films, but that's beside the point. They were still given them in licensed sources.

By using Toht's first name, Luceno is saying that the novelization is a valid canonical source. Fine. But since he uses so much material from the comics, including the adaptation of Last Crusade, it's clear Luceno sees the comics as canon, too, so the exclusion of Vogel's first name from what is a canon source that he otherwise references repeatedly is strange.

Last edited by Kooshmeister : 06-24-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:38 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Kooshmeister
I got it from the Indy Wiki, as mentioned. I'm unsure where it comes from (I'd originally thought this very book, but no such thing is mentioned), and I wasn't the one to add it to his bio.

I'm unsure too. Couldn't see it skimming through the novelisations and official bios elsewhere anyway.

Apparently The Raven's very own Erik Pflueger did it: "Vogel's medals and decorations, and basic facts about the SS, make these facts about Vogel's backstory clear."

I'm not going into things the Ultimate Guide got wrong.
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Old 06-25-2011, 01:12 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Lao_Che
I'm unsure too. Couldn't see it skimming through the novelisations and official bios elsewhere anyway.

Apparently The Raven's very own Erik Pflueger did it: "Vogel's medals and decorations, and basic facts about the SS, make these facts about Vogel's backstory clear."

I'm not going into things the Ultimate Guide got wrong.

In this image you can clearly see the ribbon for an Iron Cross (2nd class) pinned to Vogel's tunic button.



1st class crosses were issued without ribbons, while the 2nd class was concealed within the tunic. The ribbon for a First World War cross had black and white stripes:



On the non-combatant award the stripes are reversed:



Since the First World War was the last conflict the Iron Cross was awarded in, before being reinstituted by Hitler on 1st September 1939, it is clear that Vogel was a World War I combat veteran.
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:30 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Lao_Che
I'm not going into things the Ultimate Guide got wrong.
Busy for the next decade or so?

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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
In this image you can clearly see the ribbon for an Iron Cross (2nd class) pinned to Vogel's tunic button.

If ever there was a thread that screamed for you to make it.

"Military Insignia"

Stop being such a miser with the data!
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:19 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
If ever there was a thread that screamed for you to make it.

"Military Insignia"

Stop being such a miser with the data!

It would be an interesting project to go through all the movies taking screen captures of any insignia that appear.

Stoo already made thouse great exploded composites of Dietrich and Gobler. Be good to have everything together in one thread.

I'll start a thread and kick it off with Vogel's Iron Cross.
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