Are/were the Batman fans responsible for a lot of the hate?

Raiders90

Well-known member
I remember a lot of the Dark Knight fans like truly hating Indiana Jones before KOTCS even came out, and many were skewering it before it came out, and a lot of the DK fanboys and hipster types happened to be the writers on many of the popular opinion influencing sites like CHUD and the others, along with the "Nuke the fridge" stuff on IMDB by a lot of the Dark Knight fanboys.

Do you think they had anything to do with how it's hip to consider KOTCS the "worst film of all time"? They seemed to want to destroy IJ even before KOTCS came out.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
I think CS was its own worst enemy. There's not one group out there responsible for the way the movie was received. The movie is responsible for the way it was received.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Raiders112390 said:
They seemed to want to destroy IJ even before KOTCS came out.
What? It's 2011. Why are you speculating about the past? I could call myself a DK fanboy, but I wanted KOTCS to be awesome. It's not my fault that it wasn't.

If the film had just come out, I might understand why this is still being discussed. Move on, folks.
 

The Drifter

New member
WillKill4Food said:
If the film had just come out, I might understand why this is still being discussed. Move on, folks.

Maybe it's being discussed because this is a message board devoted to Indiana Jones? :rolleyes:
 

WillKill4Food

New member
The Drifter said:
Maybe it's being discussed because this is a message board devoted to Indiana Jones? :rolleyes:
So? There are like fifteen different threads on essentially the same topic. And this thread is especially bizarre. I don't see any relation between DK 'fanboys' and KOTCS haters. Maybe there's some overlap, because people who like the Dark Knight have a better taste in film? I don't know. If I was like, "Do you think some people criticize Temple of Doom because Romancing the Stone came out that same year?" you'd be like, "What?" because it makes no sense.

There's no conspiracy afoot to make people hate KOTCS. To misquote Mickiana, "People think KOTCS sucks because it does."
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
Yes, in a way I suppose I was saying that people thought CS sucks because it does. But I don't mind the many various ways we here at the raven come up with to say how it does suck. It implies how much we wish it didn't suck.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Raiders112390 said:
I remember a lot of the Dark Knight fans like truly hating Indiana Jones before KOTCS even came out, and many were skewering it before it came out, and a lot of the DK fanboys and hipster types happened to be the writers on many of the popular opinion influencing sites like CHUD and the others, along with the "Nuke the fridge" stuff on IMDB by a lot of the Dark Knight fanboys.

Do you think they had anything to do with how it's hip to consider KOTCS the "worst film of all time"? They seemed to want to destroy IJ even before KOTCS came out.

Regardless of KOTCS strengths/weaknesses (and it has them in abundance), like it or not, it was a generally well received movie. I don't really see anything else out there to suggest otherwise.

As far as 'fanboys' (or general fandom communities) are concerned, I'm not sure I'd put that much credence in anyone who was so vitriolic with their dislike of an Indiana Jones movie. All I can say is show me a person who thinks KOTCS, TOD (or a Star Wars prequel) is one of the worst movies ever made, and I'll show you a person who doesn't actually know that much about movies, or the cultural significance. I certainly think you could hold up KOTCS (or any other Indy movie) as an example of American capitalist cinema, an output of the industrialisation (dare I say bastardisation) of the art form... but as an example of empirically bad movie making? Nah, not a chance...
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Mickiana said:
I think CS was its own worst enemy. There's not one group out there responsible for the way the movie was received. The movie is responsible for the way it was received.
Very true, Mickiana, and I agree but can (sort of) understand what Raiders11239029846297 is talking about. His ultimate question concerns the hatred being "hip". Outside of hardcore super-hero/sci-fi geek circles, where is "Skull" hatred hip?:confused: Average audiences may have been disappointed but they don't carry on whining & perpetuating the hatred 3 years later. (Unlike HeckleVision in The Haters Thread.)
WillKill4Food said:
I don't see any relation between DK 'fanboys' and KOTCS haters.
In a larger view, the relation isn't necessarily confined to "Da Dark Klown" Lovers but 'fanboys' in general (whatever that term is supposed to mean). After "Skull" was released, MANY people on this board were comparing it to the clown movie. Why? What does one have to do with the other?:confused: Large numbers of people joined The Raven only to shoot down "Skull" & glorify Batmuffin...never to be heard from again.:rolleyes:

Above, you mentioned that folks should "move on"...Agreed, especially since the general viewing public of Indy 4 isn't aware of the term, "Nuking the Fridge"...
WillKill4Food said:
Maybe there's some overlap, because people who like the Dark Knight have a better taste in film?
I'm not a "Skull" defender but I DESPISE the clown/bat movie. Does this mean my taste in film is inferior?:confused:
The Drifter said:
Maybe it's being discussed because this is a message board devoted to Indiana Jones?:rolleyes:
During 2008, The Raven could have easily been considered a message board devoted to Duh Dark Klown which is why I'm dreading the release of the upcoming "Batmuffin Rises" flick.:eek::sick::eek::sick:
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
It's true that the only haters out there would have derived from that section of the community called hardcore fans, such as we Raveners. I won't call them groups as the individuals are too disparate. But the Haters must be a small contingent. To exercise such an extreme emotional reaction to a movie shows an imbalance in their minds. It would be better if they were just normal hardcore fans and learn to logically express their disappointment.;)
 

kongisking

Active member
This is something I definitely have thought about. I remember saying on this site at one point something along the lines of "have deep, psychological films like The Dark Knight ruined our ability to simply have fun at the movies?" Now, don't get me wrong; I love complex, dark, intricately plotted storytelling, and that is why Mr. Nolan is one of my heroes. But that being said, I definitely have my days when I'd like nothing more than to watch a silly, entertaining popcorn flick, the kind that Berg is so damn good at. And KOTCS was just that for me.

I think now would be an appropriate time to say, "Why So Serious?" in regard to our attitudes towards movies. :p
 

The Drifter

New member
Stoo said:
During 2008, The Raven could have easily been considered a message board devoted to Duh Dark Klown which is why I'm dreading the release of the upcoming "Batmuffin Rises" flick.:eek::sick::eek::sick:

Yes, I remember that.
I'm not a fan of the Batman films. I haven't even watched The Dark Knight. :eek:
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
After "Skull" was released, MANY people on this board were comparing it to the clown movie. Why? What does one have to do with the other?:confused: Large numbers of people joined The Raven only to shoot down "Skull" & glorify Batmuffin...never to be heard from again.:rolleyes:

That is a confusing stance, since the two movies are really poles apart. And The Dark Knight wasn't really anything like Raiders either, even if the latter was often more serious in tone than KOTCS.

Stoo said:
I'm not a "Skull" defender but I DESPISE the clown/bat movie. Does this mean my taste in film is inferior?:confused:

Yes! :p

Er, no, of course not. Taste is taste, and if it weren't we'd all be wearing identical boiler suits. Until one day one of us spoke up and started a revolt. Oh, wrong movie.

-Raiders112390 said:
Do you think they had anything to do with how it's hip to consider KOTCS the "worst film of all time"? They seemed to want to destroy IJ even before KOTCS came out.

It's very often the media who gang up to skewer something. Having a target for controversy (especially when a film has been long-awaited) makes for energetic press. Then it becomes trendy to perpetuate the view, without perhaps even passing a considered personal judgement of the work in question. The media attempts to direct its readers or listeners, to form a judgement on their behalf. Negative campaigns are often louder than positive ones, since controversy and bad news attract more interest than good news stories. (There are, of course exceptions to the rule).
 
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kongisking

Active member
Stoo said:
Very true, Mickiana, and I agree but can (sort of) understand what Raiders11239029846297 is talking about. His ultimate question concerns the hatred being "hip". Outside of hardcore super-hero/sci-fi geek circles, where is "Skull" hatred hip?:confused: Average audiences may have been disappointed but they don't carry on whining & perpetuating the hatred 3 years later. (Unlike HeckleVision in The Haters Thread.)
In a larger view, the relation isn't necessarily confined to "Da Dark Klown" Lovers but 'fanboys' in general (whatever that term is supposed to mean). After "Skull" was released, MANY people on this board were comparing it to the clown movie. Why? What does one have to do with the other?:confused: Large numbers of people joined The Raven only to shoot down "Skull" & glorify Batmuffin...never to be heard from again.:rolleyes:

Above, you mentioned that folks should "move on"...Agreed, especially since the general viewing public of Indy 4 isn't aware of the term, "Nuking the Fridge"...
I'm not a "Skull" defender but I DESPISE the clown/bat movie. Does this mean my taste in film is inferior?:confused:
During 2008, The Raven could have easily been considered a message board devoted to Duh Dark Klown which is why I'm dreading the release of the upcoming "Batmuffin Rises" flick.:eek::sick::eek::sick:

I really shouldn't comment on this, because I might start a pro-Nolan rant that may never stop...
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Stoo said:
I'm not a "Skull" defender but I DESPISE the clown/bat movie. Does this mean my taste in film is inferior?:confused:
It's a distinct possibility. I'd have to know your reasons first.

Mickiana said:
To exercise such an extreme emotional reaction to a movie shows an imbalance in their minds.
It seems to me that the same could be said for people who ardently defend a film when not provoked into doing so.

I loved The Dark Knight (the batmuffin? really? :rolleyes: ), but it has its flaws just as any other film does. And if someone hates it, that's their prerogative. I don't know why KotCS would be any different.

Discussing films might not be as productive as discussing politics or religion (or depending on who you're talking to, discussing politics and religion may be less productive), but its still worthwhile to have the conversation, instead of spinning bizarre scenarios to explain the fan reaction. Embittered, Raiders112390 seems to be "clinging to his guns and the bullwhip" rather dogmatically.

Accusing Nolan fans of churning the KotCS hatred seems ridiculous. They're two completely different movies, and I don't know why that your opinion of one would necessarily be connected to your opinion of the other, except that TDK is, to a good majority of people, the better film. Roger Ebert enjoyed both, because, like Kong says, one is meant to be a drama/thriller and the other is a relaxing popcorn flik.

Stoo said:
During 2008, The Raven could have easily been considered a message board devoted to Duh Dark Klown...?
So what?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
kongisking said:
I really shouldn't comment on this, because I might start a pro-Nolan rant that may never stop...

We could make it stop.

I think all it would take is for one of us to post a picture of a scantily clad Amy Adams...

:p
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Mickiana said:
To exercise such an extreme emotional reaction to a movie shows an imbalance in their minds.
Agreed and anyone who attends those HeckleVision screenings of "Skull" needs a reality check. It's just a movie.
The Drifter said:
I'm not a fan of the Batman films. I haven't even watched The Dark Knight. :eek:
Good for you, Drifter!(y)
Montana Smith said:
That is a confusing stance, since the two movies are really poles apart. And The Dark Knight wasn't really anything like Raiders either, even if the latter was often more serious in tone than KOTCS.
Confusing indeed but it was all too common. They came in droves and then left...
WillKill4Food said:
It's a distinct possibility. I'd have to know your reasons first.
Right. It's 'a distinct possibility' that "Duh Dark Knight" fans' taste in film is better than mine because they like it and I don't.:rolleyes: Like Montana said, 'Taste is taste'.
WillKill4Food said:
(the batmuffin? really? :rolleyes: ),
Yes, really.
WillKill4Food said:
Would you join a Batman forum to shoot down Batman and gush about Indy?
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Stoo said:
Right. It's 'a distinct possibility' that "Duh Dark Knight" fans' taste in film is better than mine because they like it and I don't.:rolleyes: Like Montana said, 'Taste is taste'.
Right, right. If I prefer Stephanie Meyer to William Faulkner, well, taste is taste, in a vacuum separate from the intellectual value of the subject, eh?

Stoo said:
Would you join a Batman forum to shoot down Batman and gush about Indy?
If I were a member of a Batman forum circa 1997, I imagine that I would criticize the camp of Batman and Robin, yes. I would have every reason to. And if there was an off-topic session, I may talk about Indiana Jones.

However, I would make a point of not childishly whining about Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal MacMuffin because other members chose to talk about the films that interest them in the appropriate forum for doing so.
 
I think with KOTCS everyone wanted Indy back on top. The Raiders films led the way in action adventure films. In Indy's absence a lot of new action films came and showed some spectacular action. When the fourth film came along I think everyone expected Spielberg to show them how an action film should be made.
I remember a review in which the reviewer enjoyed the film, but said that it was remarkably- unremarkable.
Thats the way i felt. I wanted Indy back in a big way. But a lot of films including The Dark Knight were more um.. remarkable

Still loved having Indy back though
 
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WillKill4Food

New member
Listen to this dude criticizing KotCS!

Raiders112390 said:
The whole idea of playing on Indy's age is kind of stupid when you consider the fridge scene. He's either an older man who isn't as strong as he once was and whom time is leaving behind, or he's an invincible superhero who can survive nuclear explosions without nary a scratch. You can't have it both ways.

Must be a Dark Knight fanboy...


Also,
Stoo said:
Above, you mentioned that folks should "move on"...Agreed, especially since the general viewing public of Indy 4 isn't aware of the term, "Nuking the Fridge"...
Do you think Cosby show fans are responsible for the term "jumping the shark"?

[Bill Cosby... The Dark Howard Cunningham.]
 
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