New Indy Adventure Game?

Grizzlor

Well-known member
What happened with that current-gen Indiana Jones game that never launched, and how can you make sure that these kinds of things don't happen? What processes are you putting in place to make sure that everything works out with projects like that in the future?

DR: We still believe in the Indiana Jones franchise. We did Lego Indiana Jones 1, we just released Lego Indiana Jones 2, and we'll continue to invest in the Indiana Jones franchise.

To your question about processes, we are focused on a phased gate type of a process, where we understand a greater level of granularity as we go through the development phase, tying really closely in with publishing as well as finance, and looking at the financials as well as the game and the landscape of competition out there to make sure we're making correct decisions.
Man, talk about avoiding a question.
 

lao che & sons

New member
I don't see another game happening for the next 7 years or until Indy 5. but they better go all out. I'm sick and tired of slacking off to give of "the best product" expecting it to do well, it doesn't, we're taunted with what could've been, they decide not to make anymore games because the first one didn't do well:( well I wonder why;)
 

lao che & sons

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I don't see why they won't just farm Indy out to a company that WANTS to make a game...

b/c george Lucas obviously is associated with Lucasart etc. (I'm sure you knew that) ;) and sense Indiana Jones is his he doesn't just want to give it off. That's my guess. I think he should though. I think they need to give Indy 2 more movies then move the series onto a reboot for someone else to make an indy film, some new director:)
 

The Tingler

New member
lao che & sons said:
b/c george Lucas obviously is associated with Lucasart etc. (I'm sure you knew that) ;) and sense Indiana Jones is his he doesn't just want to give it off. That's my guess. I think he should though. I think they need to give Indy 2 more movies then move the series onto a reboot for someone else to make an indy film, some new director:)

Not the reason at all, hence Star Wars going to every developer under the sun. Oh, and Lucas didn't direct any of the Indy films.

I don't see why they won't just farm Indy out to a company that WANTS to make a game...

It's down to money and perception. Indy games, barring the Lego ones, have never made that much money. And after the joke that was the Staff of Kings release and the general opinion on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, compared with Uncharted 2, no one's going to take Indy seriously enough to through money at a company for a game they think won't sell or people won't care about.*

* Please note, this is my Devil's Advocate here, not my personal view on any of those subjects. For the record, I mostly enjoyed SOK and KOTCS although thought both could and should have been much, much better, and Uncharted 2 by all accounts seems to be an interactive movie - a genre without freedom of play, something I detest. Would buy it though if I had a PS3! :hat:

And Double Helix/The Collective wanted to make Indy games...
 

lao che & sons

New member
The Tingler said:
Not the reason at all, hence Star Wars going to every developer under the sun. Oh, and Lucas didn't direct any of the Indy films.

where in that quote did I say that George Lucas directed the Indy films. I know that Steven Spielberg directed them:rolleyes: . If I didn't then I shouldn't be a steven spielberg fan:D ! I said that they should try finding a new director for the series just to give it a go and see what happens;)
 

The Tingler

New member
You know, the more I think about this the more I think it's going to happen. Monkey Island's been very successful for LucasArts, and the main thing people and critics raved about in Staff of Kings was the inclusion of Fate of Atlantis - many reviewers even said it was worth buying for that game alone.

This is the same as SEGA doing a downloadable Sonic The Hedgehog 4 - give the fans exactly what they want, and with digital sales you only have to appeal to gamers. A digital, episodic Indy game in the style of Tales of Monkey Island (one story but with cliffhangers at the end of every episode) would be very, very successful, and I wouldn't be surprised if Telltale were doing it right now.

I hope something will be announced at E3 either way. This lack of a new Indy game to look forward to is terrifying.
 

Prime Blue

New member
The Tingler said:
and the main thing people and critics raved about in Staff of Kings was the inclusion of Fate of Atlantis - many reviewers even said it was worth buying for that game alone.
Yeah, literally even... ;)

The Tingler said:
This is the same as SEGA doing a downloadable Sonic The Hedgehog 4 - give the fans exactly what they want, and with digital sales you only have to appeal to gamers. A digital, episodic Indy game in the style of Tales of Monkey Island (one story but with cliffhangers at the end of every episode) would be very, very successful, and I wouldn't be surprised if Telltale were doing it right now.
I think episodic distribution is by nature a big mistake. Even moreso for adventure games, where a contained narrative is one of the most important things for the player. Telltale Games even said that Tales of Monkey Island sold the most as a full season rather than individual parts. Now, the cliffhangers at the end of an episode would nicely pay homage to the original concept of the Indiana Jones movies, but I think that's too restrictive to build a good game around it. To create a really engrossing experience would instead require the following for me:
  • a good MacGuffin, which at this point is very hard to find as almost all of the better ones have been used already
  • no Nazis shoehorned into the story (a lot of the expanded universe stories suffer from this), either give a good reason for their presence or include some other villains
  • development by LucasArts and/or Telltale Games, no outsourcing to some small companies, it just doesn't do the IP justice
Now, another Indiana Jones game by Hal Barwood (Finite Arts) would make me die a happy man, no matter if it was an action-adventure or a pure adventure. But I just can't imagine the company approaching him after all these years. Jim Ward said in 2006 that LucasArts had much better ideas in store than their early adventure games and that they would return to their old franchises in 2015, after they had developed new IPs. So far, there's only Lucidity, taking away quite a bit of thunder from that statement. Luckily, they recently started making adventure games again with the remakes of the first two Monkey Island titles, and I think the first one turned out perfect. I wouldn't mind having the Indiana Jones franchise rest for a few years, even. Just don't let it die so easily: It's a perfect fit for video games...if done right!
 

The Tingler

New member
Prime Blue said:
I think episodic distribution is by nature a big mistake. Even moreso for adventure games, where a contained narrative is one of the most important things for the player. Telltale Games even said that Tales of Monkey Island sold the most as a full season rather than individual parts.

That's because it's a) cheaper, b) more encouraged with lots of bonuses, and c) makes sense because it's just one story really. I agree that episodic gaming never really took off because companies either just released 1 or 2 episodes (SiN, Penny Arcade Adventures) or took so long it became comical (Half-Life 2 Episodes). However, with Telltale games, TOMI in particular, it definitely works - both creatively and financially.

While I do support and prefer the one full game idea, with Telltale it just works right. It is like a TV series - you don't get it all in one go and that's just fine. Indiana Jones & The Staff of Kings came out May... Tales of Monkey Island came out June-November. That's half a year to look forward to one great game while still playing it at the same time!


Now, the cliffhangers at the end of an episode would nicely pay homage to the original concept of the Indiana Jones movies, but I think that's too restrictive to build a good game around it.

Why exactly? Worked for TMI and Sam & Max. Works for Lost, Prison Break etc in storytelling terms. You just have to have an exciting twist at the end of the scene, and then... To Be Continued!! That would be brilliant.

To create a really engrossing experience would instead require the following for me:
  • a good MacGuffin, which at this point is very hard to find as almost all of the better ones have been used already
  • no Nazis shoehorned into the story (a lot of the expanded universe stories suffer from this), either give a good reason for their presence or include some other villains
  • development by LucasArts and/or Telltale Games, no outsourcing to some small companies, it just doesn't do the IP justice

Wait, so you actually agree with me then? 'Cause there's no way Telltale are doing a full-release game - they did do the CSI games, and they're their worst games.

As for the first point about the MacGuffin, I thought the Staff of Kings/Moses was an absolutely perfect artifact, fit everything you could want in an Indy MacGuffin... and that had never been used before, except in a fan comic. Furthermore, just have a browse around this forum, there's some absolutely killer potential artifacts that I'd never heard of before. The Stone of Creation and The Emerald of Lucifer are my personal favourites.

Now, another Indiana Jones game by Hal Barwood (Finite Arts) would make me die a happy man, no matter if it was an action-adventure or a pure adventure. But I just can't imagine the company approaching him after all these years.

They approached Telltale didn't they? And he and Noah Falstein wrote Mata Hari, a close-as-dammit-to-Indy adventure game recently, so they clearly like making adventure games still. Plus Hal Barwood, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg all went to film school together, so if George wanted his help I'm sure he'd get it. He wasn't just an employee, he is a close friend.

Jim Ward said in 2006 that LucasArts had much better ideas in store than their early adventure games and that they would return to their old franchises in 2015, after they had developed new IPs. So far, there's only Lucidity, taking away quite a bit of thunder from that statement. Luckily, they recently started making adventure games again with the remakes of the first two Monkey Island titles, and I think the first one turned out perfect.

Jim Ward was an idiot and is gone now, and it's mostly because of him that we never got the proper next-gen Staff of Kings. The new President understands that they have a rich history of classic IPs like Monkey Island, and people still want them. He is also smart enough to spot that an Indiana Jones adventure game with Telltale at the helm and Hal Barwood "overseeing" production would sell like crazy.

I wouldn't mind having the Indiana Jones franchise rest for a few years, even. Just don't let it die so easily: It's a perfect fit for video games...if done right!

Correct on the second point! But sod letting it rest, we're still promised a big properly-done Indy adventure! I wouldn't have minded Staff of Kings if at least they'd made an effort with the story, but A2M made no effort whatsoever.
 

Prime Blue

New member
The Tingler said:
That's because it's a) cheaper, b) more encouraged with lots of bonuses, and c) makes sense because it's just one story really.
I still think it has more to do with customers wanting to buy complete games. After all, you never hear people crying "Boy, I wish this game was episodic!" ;)

The Tingler said:
Why exactly? Worked for TMI and Sam & Max. Works for Lost, Prison Break etc in storytelling terms. You just have to have an exciting twist at the end of the scene, and then... To Be Continued!! That would be brilliant.
Yeah, but it's still essentially making the story fit around episodic distribution, when it should actually be the other way around. I just feel that, for Indiana Jones, it's easier and more natural to have a complete story created from the get-go.

The Tingler said:
As for the first point about the MacGuffin, I thought the Staff of Kings/Moses was an absolutely perfect artifact, fit everything you could want in an Indy MacGuffin... and that had never been used before, except in a fan comic. Furthermore, just have a browse around this forum, there's some absolutely killer potential artifacts that I'd never heard of before. The Stone of Creation and The Emerald of Lucifer are my personal favourites.
Nothing spectacular there for me. I'd like something with a very expansive mythology that's deeply "rooted" in the real world. Atlantis still is the ne plus ultra when it comes to MacGuffins. There is so much material they were able to allude to, it's better than the Ark itself.

The Tingler said:
They approached Telltale didn't they?
Well, this interview with Dave Grossman makes it seem a bit as if Telltale Games approached LucasArts and Rodriguez gave it a try.

The Tingler said:
And he and Noah Falstein wrote Mata Hari, a close-as-dammit-to-Indy adventure game recently, so they clearly like making adventure games still. Plus Hal Barwood, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg all went to film school together, so if George wanted his help I'm sure he'd get it. He wasn't just an employee, he is a close friend.
I didn't play Mata Hari yet, mainly because I have other things in the pipe at the moment and because I want to play the English version. But from what I've heard so far, it's not very good.

Regarding Barwood, he said that, despite having loved to work on the games, his Jones period was over and that he wasn't an adventure guy to begin with, favoring action-adventures more. I don't see George Lucas ever asking him to create a new game for the IP, either. It's not like he's that intricately involved with video games.

The Tingler said:
He is also smart enough to spot that an Indiana Jones adventure game with Telltale at the helm and Hal Barwood "overseeing" production would sell like crazy.
I'm not so sure about that. I think the market is smaller now, production costs are higher, and the franchise lost some polish over the years, partly due to the recent "junkification" (LEGO, Staff of Kings).

The Tingler said:
Correct on the second point! But sod letting it rest, we're still promised a big properly-done Indy adventure!
Are we? Like, a real promise? :/
 

The Tingler

New member
Prime Blue said:
I'm not so sure about that. I think the market is smaller now, production costs are higher, and the franchise lost some polish over the years, partly due to the recent "junkification" (LEGO, Staff of Kings).

Exactly why this is more likely to happen than a big blockbuster. :gun:
 

IAdventurer01

Well-known member
I'm not entirely sure how one contracts with Lucasarts, but somehow the slightly lower-budget, episodic story would be an easier pitch to make to Lucasarts, a company that seems to care more about the bottomline these days than making fantastic games.

Especially if Barwood did helm it. The rabid fan-base for that game, along with more casual Indy fans looking for a bit more of their favorite adventurer, and general nostalgic adventure game fans are guaranteed sales right there.


If a Barwood/Telltale team up DID happen though, Telltale would need to change up their game. Their current visual style simply won't work, but I think it would give their technology a chance to flex it's muscle. Also, let's be honest here, an Indy game needs some sort of combat system, and the classic FOA combat system isn't quite going to cut it. I'm sure they could devise something short of a full blown 3rd person shooter, but it is something they would need to consider.
 

Prime Blue

New member
IAdventurer01 said:
If a Barwood/Telltale team up DID happen though, Telltale would need to change up their game. Their current visual style simply won't work, but I think it would give their technology a chance to flex it's muscle. Also, let's be honest here, an Indy game needs some sort of combat system, and the classic FOA combat system isn't quite going to cut it. I'm sure they could devise something short of a full blown 3rd person shooter, but it is something they would need to consider.
They could also go fully retro and return to early 1990s 2D graphics, 320x200 resolution and such. Worked for Mega Man 9.
 

Nurhachi1991

Well-known member
I dont see why its so ***** hard to make an Indy game.....


Look at the Uncharted series its pure perfection.



Lucas arts should just copy that formula make a 3d rendered Indy. Put it in the 1930s. Put in Nazis. Put in a biblical object.


Done best Indy game ever.
 

IAdventurer01

Well-known member
Prime Blue said:
They could also go fully retro and return to early 1990s 2D graphics, 320x200 resolution and such. Worked for Mega Man 9.

May I point out, however, that the 2D platformer is an entirely separate genre that hasn't exactly been changed much since the 90s.

Prime Blue said:
Personally, I don't think an idea gets better the twelth time it is used...

While you have a point, too much variation from that and it won't seem to be a true Indiana Jones style adventure. Also, so long as it's not done exactly the same way, if it is a formula that is attempted to be approved upon, it can be great fun. After all, if you break stories down to their core components, basically every thing we absorb today in the several hundredth iteration of the same tales.

Nurhachi1991 said:
I dont see why its so ***** hard to make an Indy game.....

Look at the Uncharted series its pure perfection.

Lucas arts should just copy that formula make a 3d rendered Indy. Put it in the 1930s. Put in Nazis. Put in a biblical object.

Done best Indy game ever.

One would hope that Lucasarts would look to that series for inspiration, much like what they did for Infernal Machine when Tomb Raider was still new. Well, so long as they don't cancel another very promising Indy adventure to do so. :(
 

The Tingler

New member
Nurhachi1991 said:
I dont see why its so ***** hard to make an Indy game.....

Look at the Uncharted series its pure perfection.

Suggest to Naughty Dog that making Uncharted 2 was easy and they'd either laugh in your face or beat you up. If making games was easy then no one would be saying Uncharted 2 was a great game, because there'd be a thousand more exactly like it. There are a million things that could go wrong during game development, turning a great idea into an unbridled mess.

It also comes down to talent, too. Some developers, like A2M, just don't have the same abilities to make great games as Naughty Dog.
 
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