Atlantis

intergamer

New member
LASTCRUSADER said:
Cain said:
Indy doesn't have to find Atlantis itself. Perhaps an artifact that conclusively proves its existence, jealously guarded by a remnant of Atlantean descent, a la the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword.

I'll agree with that.An artifact from Atlantis could be interesting.

I dunno, that would seemed forced and just as cheesy.

Anything that has been done by a disney movie=too lame.

I think that the holy grail was stretching it.

The ark was awesome: then they slowly get worse and worse.
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
intergamer said:
Lets do greco-roman, but not atlantis (or maybe mention is subtley or something)

atlantis is too unoriginal for IJ4

But in a way, that's why it might work. Think of all those cheesy B-movies that focused on Atlantis, and then think how the Indy movies always try to redo those types of movies. It makes sense.
 

LASTCRUSADER

New member
Renderking Fisk said:
I always thought of Jones fans as people who would like to see the best movies possible. Am I wrong? Seems like the newest trend is to say these movies are JUST send-ups of old B-Movies and Serials and use that as an excuse for some wild explanation.

I always saw these movies as a way for Lucas and Spielberg to take the cliffhanger-swashbuckler formula and improve on it. Tweak it in such a way, as it feels more believable and more engaging. But to just say; ?These are really dumb B-Movie send-ups and they can do what ever stupid thing they want? is to see the movies and the fans short.

I agree.The Indy movies in my opinion are the some of the best Action/Adventure movies ever created. If they were so dumb I don't think I would be able to watch them over and over again. I certainly wouldn't be so excited about a fourth film.
 

bob

New member
Renderking Fisk said:
I always thought of Jones fans as people who would like to see the best movies possible. Am I wrong? Seems like the newest trend is to say these movies are JUST send-ups of old B-Movies and Serials and use that as an excuse for some wild explanation.

I always saw these movies as a way for Lucas and Spielberg to take the cliffhanger-swashbuckler formula and improve on it. Tweak it in such a way, as it feels more believable and more engaging. But to just say; ?These are really dumb B-Movie send-ups and they can do what ever stupid thing they want? is to see the movies and the fans short.

Both arguements can coexist....

I think that Raiders is the uber serial, but as the series went on it got gradually more tounge in cheek...

Lets remember the Indy movies are fun movies and for me if they were just straight action movies i wouldnt feel so comfortable with them

On another issue Atlantis is the most logical artifact to be next, as Raiders had an egyptian theme, ToD an Indian, LC a Crusader, and i think that Greece is probably the best thing to use next
 

Marcus Petrius

New member
Atlantis had nothing to do with Greece other than the fact that it is Plato who delivers the story to us. He lets someone tell in a dialogue (Plato doesn't tell us anything, his characters do) that Solon heard it from an Egyptian priest when he was on a trip.

If anything it's Egyptian rather than Greek.
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Renderking Fisk said:
I always thought of Jones fans as people who would like to see the best movies possible. Am I wrong? Seems like the newest trend is to say these movies are JUST send-ups of old B-Movies and Serials and use that as an excuse for some wild explanation.

I always saw these movies as a way for Lucas and Spielberg to take the cliffhanger-swashbuckler formula and improve on it. Tweak it in such a way, as it feels more believable and more engaging. But to just say; ?These are really dumb B-Movie send-ups and they can do what ever stupid thing they want? is to see the movies and the fans short.

But I don't think anybody here said ?These are really dumb B-Movie send-ups and they can do what ever stupid thing they want? (at least I didn't see that posted anywhere.)

My point was simply that Lucas likes to use a LOT of cliches in the Indy movies as a way of paying homage to the old serial action movies. Come on... the revolving bookcase? The boulder? The sacrificial temples under an Indian palace? Yeah, really original stuff. But it's okay because we know Lucas is doing it tongue-in-cheek AND he's doing it better than it's been done before. He uses the same technique in the Star Wars films. The attack on the Death Star was his take on WW2 dog-fighting movies. The AT-ATs paid tribute to Japanese horror movies like Godzilla. The barges at the Sarlacc pit were a nod to pirate films. The arena in Attack Of The Clones was done in Gladiator movie style. The Podrace in Phantom Menace was his way of doing a Ben-Hur sequence. He admits to all of this. He enjoys it, and we enjoy watching it.

So he COULD do Atlantis, and he could do it better than it's been done before. I, for one, enjoy the way reuses these old cliches and makes them feel fresh again, and I hope he does it again in Indy 4... whether its with Atlantis, aliens, or anything else. Main thing is that he has fun with it and makes it fun for us as he always has done in the past.
 

intergamer

New member
Randy_Flagg said:
intergamer said:
Lets do greco-roman, but not atlantis (or maybe mention is subtley or something)

atlantis is too unoriginal for IJ4

But in a way, that's why it might work. Think of all those cheesy B-movies that focused on Atlantis, and then think how the Indy movies always try to redo those types of movies. It makes sense.

I don't remember <i>that</i> many B-movies on Atlantis: if it were something really preeminent, then it would make sense...but there's only a few at the most.

Atlantis is weak for one other reason: it has no relevance to the time period: 1950s: what's the connection?
 

bob

New member
Marcus Petrius said:
Atlantis had nothing to do with Greece other than the fact that it is Plato who delivers the story to us. He lets someone tell in a dialogue (Plato doesn't tell us anything, his characters do) that Solon heard it from an Egyptian priest when he was on a trip.

If anything it's Egyptian rather than Greek.

It is a Greek myth
Posideon (A greek god) floods it
Atlantis has wars with Greece
They have temples to Greek gods

I get your point if Atlantis existed then it would not be greek but the legend is tied up in Ancient Greece and the legend is what is important
 

Marcus Petrius

New member
They have temple's to Greek gods because it's a Greek guy telling the story.
If you read Herodotos' History, you'll notice that he even uses the names of Greek gods for Egyptian ones.
(Thot=Hermes, Amon=Zeus, Isis=Demeter etc.)
Just an issue of local versions of the story.

Kritias himself gives an explanation about this:
"Yet, before proceeding further in the narrative, I ought to warn you, that you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given to foreigners. I will tell you the reason of this: Solon, who was intending to use the tale for his poem, enquired into the meaning of the names, and found that the early Egyptians in writing them down had translated them into their own language, and he recovered the meaning of the several names and when copying them out again translated them into our language. "

Atlantis waged war on Greek states 900 or 9000 years before Plato writes down his story. I can hardly believe there were real, non mythical Greeks leaders and cities by that time. Even 900 years before Plato still puts this story back as far as the rule of the Egyptian pharaoh Ramses II.

Never is there any mention of the flooding of Atlantis in Plato's dialogue. It just abrubtly ends when he's coming to the interesting part, the thing Zeus has decided to do with Atlantis.

This story is not a Greek myth untill it shows up in Plato's dialogue.

Quote from the translation comes from here:
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html
translated by:
Benjamin Jowett
 

intergamer

New member
Randy_Flagg said:
intergamer said:
intergamer said:
Atlantis is weak for one other reason: it has no relevance to the time period: 1950s: what's the connection?

What's the connection between the Holy Grail and 1938? The ark and 1936? The stones and 1935?

yeah, but if you're going to do something thats DISNEY MOVIE material, it has to be something that has specific relevance, in my opinion. And since we're making a sudden jump to the 1950s, there has to be something in there about them. I.E. who are you new enemies? Commies trying to find Atlantis? sounds a little forced
 
We ARE heading toward the Cold War era. The bad guys of the time period were after one thing and one thing only. A weapon of mass destruction. So, we have the japanese: There were rumors (Unsubstantiated of course) that during the second world war, a group of japanese soldiers had directions to the entrance to the Hollow Earth. Apparently Hitler wanted to use that information to pass through the center of the Earth and flank American forces on the other side. Completely far fetched. Or is it? What if Atlantis holds the key to some covert military plans, and the country that can conquer the fabled lost city would have strategic dominance. Secret agents, the Cold War and a Fabled Lost City.

Sounds pretty good.

Still a little Disney, though...
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Renderking Fisk said:
Well, the real chanalenge is for the Fab 5 to make a new movie that's fresh and original but familure enough to be a "Raiders" flick.


The Fab 5? The "Queer Eye" crew is making Indy4??? Whoa. Well, at least we know Indy will be well groomed and have some cooking skills. I can just see those five guys watching Indy on from the screening room... "Oh wow, he's a hunk! Now, let's see if he remembers to apply the hair product in from the back... OH NO!! He's putting a hat on! Shame on him!"
 

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
Renderking Fisk said:
I'm starting my own show... Indy-Eye for the plain Guy... where a whole bunch of us who wear IndyGear teach normal people how to dress.
GREAT! I look forward to any thing you film!
 

Venture

New member
Aaron H said:
Renderking Fisk said:
I'm starting my own show... Indy-Eye for the plain Guy... where a whole bunch of us who wear IndyGear teach normal people how to dress.
GREAT! I look forward to any thing you film!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! *thump*
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Renderking Fisk said:
I'm starting my own show... Indy-Eye for the plain Guy... where a whole bunch of us who wear IndyGear teach normal people how to dress.

Hmm...I've never seen the show, but the way I understand it is that each of the "Five" are in charge of a different thing...culture, fashion, whatever they talk about.

What would the Indy ones be? Fashion gets in, definately...but what else? And who of us is on the show? I'll take culture, if it's open...film, music, and such. ;)
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:

Hmm...I've never seen the show, but the way I understand it is that each of the "Five" are in charge of a different thing...culture, fashion, whatever they talk about.

What would the Indy ones be? Fashion gets in, definately...but what else? And who of us is on the show? I'll take culture, if it's open...film, music, and such. ;)

Well someone needs to teach the guy how to use a whip (both for swinging and whipping... hey, that sounds like the name of a seedy club.. "Swingin' and Whippin'"... let's not even think about what goes on there.)
 

westford

Member
Renderking Fisk said:
Atlantis was already done before by Disney. So well that it was ALMOST a flick to hold you over.
I think LucasArts went to Atlantis before Disney since Fate of Atlantis came out in 1992...

And do I even want to know what Queer Eye is?
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
westford said:
Renderking Fisk said:
Atlantis was already done before by Disney. So well that it was ALMOST a flick to hold you over.
I think LucasArts went to Atlantis before Disney since Fate of Atlantis came out in 1992...

And do I even want to know what Queer Eye is?

Bizarre thing the Americans over at the Bravo premium cable station have come up with that involves five homosexual men giving a complete life makeover to one heterosexual guy...don't blame me, just because I'm an American doesn't mean it's my fault. ;)
 
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