Williams' score
- Thread starter fedoraboy
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No Ticket
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Darth Vile said:
I was saying it's my opinion and I don't need anyone to tell me what good music is to me. Obviously the only way you can have any real opinion on music is subjectively. I mean, I don't like country music that much but that doesn't mean it's bad.
But I think it's pretty obvious the Raiders March is better than any particular theme in the new film alone. Reprisals of old themes do not count.
I'd also like to mention that if you listen to the themes all the time then of course they are memorable. But if you see it once and don't remember the music then that doesn't count. Truly catchy themes are instantly memorable.
Forbidden Eye
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No Ticket said:
Well, if we're going to play by those rules, the Raiders March is better than any of the others themes in any of the 4 films.
Nothing else the Indiana Jones films have offered score wise is as near memorable as the Raiders March. The only thing that might come close is The Map Room score, but The Raiders March is obviously more memorable than anything else Williams offered in this franchise.
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Forbidden Eye said:
But if you're going to play by the music is subjective rule then everything in this thread is pointless because your opinions don't matter to anyone but yourself and there is no real argument for anyone to have about it. I mean, really, that's the truth of it.
I also disagree, I find the grail theme, Marion's theme and a few others right under the radar of the greatness that is the March. We all know the march is the best piece. But I find Marion's theme, grail theme, ark theme... all better themes than any new themes I've heard in the new movie.
I personally feel the Star Wars themes in the prequels are more on par equally with their older trilogy counterparts. Flag Parade, Duel of the Fates, Across the Stars and that obi-wan vs. anakin on mustafar piece (and the opening piece from ROTS) are all, to me, higher in quality than anything in this new film.
I am not saying they are bad. Williams doesn't really do BAD.
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I agree with No Ticket. I can easily remember all of the main themes from the original trilogy off the top of my head. The Ark theme and the Nazi cue from Raiders? Totally memorable. The trek music and Short Round music from Temple of Doom? I can hum it right now. The Grail theme and new Nazi music from Last Crusade? I don't need to rewatch the films to remember those.
There a few tunes I like in Indy4, but they just aren't as memorable as the other movies'. Part of that is that the score is a bit more subtle, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's also just a significantly worse score. I also didn't care for how much music Williams recycled. It's okay to play Marion's theme when she's around or a few notes from Last Crusade when showing a picture of Henry Jones, Sr. But to simply reprise the Grail Theme at the end of the movie? That felt really cheap an inappropriate. I also didn't like how a cue from War of the Worlds was used for the obelisk scene.
There a few tunes I like in Indy4, but they just aren't as memorable as the other movies'. Part of that is that the score is a bit more subtle, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's also just a significantly worse score. I also didn't care for how much music Williams recycled. It's okay to play Marion's theme when she's around or a few notes from Last Crusade when showing a picture of Henry Jones, Sr. But to simply reprise the Grail Theme at the end of the movie? That felt really cheap an inappropriate. I also didn't like how a cue from War of the Worlds was used for the obelisk scene.
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Udvarnoky said:
Yes. You get it! Someone to share my meaningless subjective opinion with. Question... if music is completely subjective, as with movies or anything else... what merits it to be great. Does this not mean there is no real way to tell. If I strum G, E, C, D on my guitar over and over and love the sound of it... what makes you think it sucks?
... I dunno, popular opinion? Perhaps that's all it is... it only counts as "great" if enough people seem to agree on that. Or vice versa.
But honestly I do just think the original scores were better. Think about how awesome that musical cue was when Indy and Lao exchanged things back and forth on the table in TOD. Nothing like that in KOTCS.
Forbidden Eye
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Udvarnoky said:
Well, how many times have you watched the previous three. Since your posting on these forums, I take it you have seen em multiple and countless times like we all have.
Obviously, it'll be easier to remember music to a film you've seen multiple times than a movie you've seen only a couple times so far(how many times have you seen KOTCS?).
To be honest, all the themes mentioned from TOD are completely unmemorable to me, more than KOTCS. I pretty much know how they sound, but when I think of TOD, let alone Indiana Jones, those themes don't pop up in my head at all. To me, the spike room theme and the Thuggee ceremony music is what sticks out of TOD more than those themes.
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Forbidden Eye said:
...
Heya heya.. *boom* *boom*
Heya! HEYA! HEYA HEYA! *boom* *boom*
... or
dum dum da-dum dum dum da-dum dum dum da-dum dum dum da-dum
"THERES GONNA BE TWO DEAD PEOPLE IN HERE!!"
... or
*slave children working*
da-da-da da daaaaaa da-da-da--da-da-da-da-da.... da da da da daaaaaa
da da da da-dat da-da!!
Forbidden Eye
Well-known member
No Ticket said:
I don't actually disagree with anything you just said(although I don't find the Marion or the grail themes all THAT great), I was just pointing out that saying KOTCS has no new themes as good as The Raiders March is an unfair expectation, as nothing else Indiana Jones music-wise is as memorable as the Raiders March. Heck there are more fingers on an average human being then there are film themes as memorable as the Raiders March.
Niteshade007
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No Ticket said:
I still like Marion's better, but yeah, the first time I saw Empire Strikes Back and heard that music I was like "Marion's Theme? Oh, wait..."
Darth Vile
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No Ticket said:
Agreed. Although I'd have to go for "Marion's Theme" as it's a little more complete than "Han & Leia" (although clearly the score for TESB came first).
Darth Vile
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The Man said:
The Star Wars music has more scope I guess... more light and shade... and is overtly thematic. Most Indy music tends to feature the Raiders March (which I find a distraction to the other themes). Whereas with the Prequels, Williams avoided referencing the main Star Wars theme too much.
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Bvance said:I was thinking this too, how Han and Leia's theme does have a certain galactic feel to it that just about wins me over.
Star Wars does seem to have more memorable, or better placed orchestral themes than the Indy films. But both are amazing works!
The ESB Finale, is my favorite arrangement of any of John Williams works. All the themes flow so naturally into each other and it sounds so epic. Ahhh, I'm listening to it now. It's so beautiful... how powerful and sad it sounds.