Hitler's Armageddon Machine

Erik Pflueger

New member
The thing about the Nazis is that there's very little that can be said about them that isn't believable. The sheer enormity of their crimes and their ambitions make such charges completely credible, even to experts. Once you've pulled off something as crazy as industrialized mass murder on a continental scale, it's easy for people to believe you can, or have, done practically anything.

If you were to say that they launched a mission to Tibet to find a lost Aryan offshoot (and they did), people can see that happening. If you were to say they had people looking into the Holy Grail (they did), it would be believable. If you were to say that the SS were going to build their own Vatican City as a headquarters (they were), that too is believable. If you were to say they were developing UFOs and that they colonized the Moon before the United States (they didn't), it's still belieavable by some people (in fact, a good portion of Neo-Nazi ideology is built upon such stories).

What has happened really is that the Nazis have become an icon of evil in the common mind, upon which anything strange or esoteric can ultimately be projected with credibility. And you have to thank the Indiana Jones films, to a certain extent, for that happening, although the origins of that lie back in the 1960s, not with Lucas or Spielberg. The revival of the Indiana Jones franchise, in addition to making people ask what Crystal Skulls are, may encourage even greater and more rigorous study into this strage and fascinating aspect of Nazism.

It does give me pause, though: now that the Soviets are the current bad guys, do they have the same aspect of strangeness to them as the Nazis did? Would people believe anything said about Stalin and the Bolsheviks like they do about Hitler and the Nazis? The research is much more scarce, though it can be hoped that the new film - like the old ones did about Nazi occultism - may encourage the study of Russian wackiness and bring forth new books on the subject.
 

para_owl

New member
Erik Pflueger said:
The thing about the Nazis is that there's very little that can be said about them that isn't believable. The sheer enormity of their crimes and their ambitions make such charges completely credible, even to experts. Once you've pulled off something as crazy as industrialized mass murder on a continental scale, it's easy for people to believe you can, or have, done practically anything.

If you were to say that they launched a mission to Tibet to find a lost Aryan offshoot (and they did), people can see that happening. If you were to say they had people looking into the Holy Grail (they did), it would be believable. If you were to say that the SS were going to build their own Vatican City as a headquarters (they were), that too is believable. If you were to say they were developing UFOs and that they colonized the Moon before the United States (they didn't), it's still belieavable by some people (in fact, a good portion of Neo-Nazi ideology is built upon such stories).

What has happened really is that the Nazis have become an icon of evil in the common mind, upon which anything strange or esoteric can ultimately be projected with credibility. And you have to thank the Indiana Jones films, to a certain extent, for that happening, although the origins of that lie back in the 1960s, not with Lucas or Spielberg. The revival of the Indiana Jones franchise, in addition to making people ask what Crystal Skulls are, may encourage even greater and more rigorous study into this strage and fascinating aspect of Nazism.

It does give me pause, though: now that the Soviets are the current bad guys, do they have the same aspect of strangeness to them as the Nazis did? Would people believe anything said about Stalin and the Bolsheviks like they do about Hitler and the Nazis? The research is much more scarce, though it can be hoped that the new film - like the old ones did about Nazi occultism - may encourage the study of Russian wackiness and bring forth new books on the subject.

I agree with your post for the most part. I have often joked with a friend of mine about writing essays about Hitler. I have heard just about every possible weird theory when Hitler is discussed at all. The reason? No one is going to come to Hitler's defense.

--Will.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
No Ticket said:
I'm pretty sure they had created a jet or almost created a jet around the time of the end of the war, but by then it had no real use.
Yup. The Messerchmitt 262 which was in the planning stages before the war even started.
It actually did see some action in the last stages of WW2.

Ron Cobb did an illustration of his version that was to be used in "Raiders" instead of the Flying Wing.
(He put the engines on the side of the fuselage toward the rear instead of under the wing.)

360scott-me262.jpg


They made a bomber, too. The Arado 234.

ar234.jpg


Believe it or not, the Germans were actually developing a Flying Wing (not just the U.S.).
I would post a photo but this baby probably deserves its own thread!

Anyway, that "Cities of the Underworld" History Channel documentary sounds very interesting.
Has anyone ever seen the documentary "Architecture of Doom"? Both fascinating & frightening at the same time.
 

Gear

New member
Actually Stoo, if I'm correct, the Flying Wing used in Raiders was actually built for the first time especially for the film from actual Nazi blueprints.

As for Nazi experimentation, they did all kinds of horrible things to 'subjects'. One theory that was experimented was the myth of twins feeling each other's pain. They took two twin girls and placed them in seperate rooms and electricuted each one at a time with cattle prods. The twins were killed, they were only 12.


The whole 'Nazis on the moon' theory isn't that far fetched, remember, the U.S. used former Nazi scientists to land Apollo on the moon-if, of coarse, you believe they hit the moon in '69.

What we need to remember is, yes Nazis were evil and, yes, the Russians have their own agenda, but the U.S. is just another super power. What makes America different from Nazi Germany or comunist/post comune Russia, or Korea? For decades and especially in the past two conspiracy stories of sinister U.S. government files and experiments have surfaced.

We need to look around at whats happening in our own time. The people of Germany in the '20s and '30s didn't and look what happend to them.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
gear guardian said:
Actually Stoo, if I'm correct, the Flying Wing used in Raiders was actually built for the first time especially for the film from actual Nazi blueprints.
Hey, gear. I think I remember reading somewhere that it was based on the American (Northrop) design.
(There is footage of the thing in flight.) The German prototypes first used propellors and later, jet engines.

Go229.jpg
 

Gear

New member
Ah, I didn't know the U.S. had one too. I think at the time however they were more keen on developing a "Flying Saucer" which, suposedly, fell on its face and was given up.
 

Erik Pflueger

New member
gear guardian said:
What we need to remember is, yes Nazis were evil and, yes, the Russians have their own agenda, but the U.S. is just another super power. What makes America different from Nazi Germany or comunist/post comune Russia, or Korea? For decades and especially in the past two conspiracy stories of sinister U.S. government files and experiments have surfaced.

We need to look around at whats happening in our own time. The people of Germany in the '20s and '30s didn't and look what happend to them.

I'm 36 years old, and I spent decades educating myself so that I know more about the conditions of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s than most people, save those who were awarded a doctorate. And I do look around at what's happening in my own time. If you want to compare conditions in the United States today with those of Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia, as if such a comparison could even be made, you might as well do so somewhere else, if only for the simple reason that it has no relevance to this thread. If you want to continue to discuss Hitler's activities as they relate to the fact or fiction in the Indiana Jones films, however, we're more than happy to have you here.
 

Gear

New member
Erik Pflueger said:
And I do look around at what's happening in my own time.

You damn well should.

I was using an example, Mr. Doctorate, of what happens when you become swept up in propaganda and let go of thinking for yourself. In fact, I was trying to shed thought on whats happing here, in America. Actually not just America, the world.
 

Erik Pflueger

New member
gear guardian said:
I was using an example, Mr. Doctorate, of what happens when you become swept up in propaganda and let go of thinking for yourself. In fact, I was trying to shed thought on whats happing here, in America. Actually not just America, the world.

That's all fine and well, Gear Guardian (permission to use capital Gs, please). But the question is: what does that have to do with the subject of this thread? This thread is about Hitler's Armageddon Machine is specifics, and about Hitler's activities in relation to the Indiana Jones films in general. It's not about "what's going on here, in America, in the present," which is really just your way of saying you want to discuss your personal political stance.

The number of places online where you can discuss such issues are legion, and not once will I deny you your right to express your attitudes, but to do so here, where it's not even the topic, is just rude to me and others! I am politically active, always have been, and have always welcomed political discussion, but there has to be places where one can escape the ever-pervasive political atmosphere! I don't come here to discuss that; I come here to talk about an archeologist-adventurer and his happy hijinks! We both have the right to express ourselves, but if someone forces their expression on you, and you don't wish to see it, especially here, where you would presumably want to speak and read about something else, would you be happy with me? Or would you find me rude?

And in advance of anyone saying it, will everyone kindly refrain from saying "If you don't like it, go somewhere else." I already did! This is somewhere else! This is for Indiana Jones, an action-adventure hero! If I want to talk politics, to shed thought on a specific current-events issue, there are any number of places for that, and that applies - or ought to apply - to everyone here. We're all intelligent people here - I haven't seen any exceptions yet - and chances are, we've already pondered this question, already spent the thought you asked us to shed. I know I have, and I'm quite satisfied with my long-pondered and reasoned answer. And at this point, whoever you ask will likely feel the same way about theirs.

So I will again ask you, with all the respect I can muster, to please consider the feelings of myself and others, to consider the purpose of this thread and of this website, and to please put your admirably sharp and inquisitive mind to the task at hand. Let's discuss Hitler's activities as they relate to the Indiana Jones adventures. And if nothing more can be discussed regarding this topic, then why not just move on?
 

DazDaMan

New member
Stoo said:
Hey, gear. I think I remember reading somewhere that it was based on the American (Northrop) design.
(There is footage of the thing in flight.) The German prototypes first used propellors and later, jet engines.

Go229.jpg

One of these things still exists...

Horten 229
 

Gear

New member
Erik, I apologize. I didn't intend to come off so rudely. I took your original post the wrong way, really, I didn't mean to shove anything down your throat. You're right; there is a time and a place for everything.

I owe you an apology. I just got too fired up.

I hope there is still more relevant discussion for this thread.

Anyway,
 

muttjones

New member
i watched this show 2 days ago

and i thought it was horrible

it was all specuation. he always said couldve and wouldve

the doomsday device part had no factual references that it was there at all!!
it could have been anywhere or nowhere at all they just added it in to gain more interest in the show.

AWFUL

in fact there is nothing very good on the history channel
 

Gear

New member
Well yeah, in the show they never revealed any facts about the machine they just said it was legend that it had been there and there was a conspiracy by Hitler to cover it up by detonating the mines.
 

muttjones

New member
gear guardian said:
Well yeah, in the show they never revealed any facts about the machine they just said it was legend that it had been there and there was a conspiracy by Hitler to cover it up by detonating the mines.

so u agree u didnt like the show???
 

Stoo

Well-known member
gear guardian said:
For those who didn't they were in Prauge investigating secret relics from the Nazi ocupation. Their last stop was a deep quary 20 miles from Prauge called "Amerika" were, legend or truth has it, Hilter had a crue of scientists build a device which, if the Nazis lost the war, would destroy the Earth in a dramatic climax.
Was there any visual evidence to support the claim? I'll be back in Prague this summer and if the site is worth checking out, I'd be tempted to do it.

DazDaMan said:
One of these things still exists...
Hey, DazDaMan, thanks the info. Here's the related paragraph (Be warned - it's Wiki):

Northrop's small single-seater prototype (N9M-B) and a Horten flying wing glider (Ho IV) are located in the Planes of Fame museum in Southern California. The only surviving Ho 229 airframe, the V3, is located at the National Air and Space Museum's Paul E. Garber Facility in Suitland, Maryland. Several partial airframes found on the assembly line were destroyed by American troops to prevent capture by the advancing Soviet forces. The Ho 229 was captured by U.S. VIII Corps of General Patton's Third Army.[citation needed]
 

Gear

New member
"so u agree u didnt like the show???"

No, I thought it was fascinating.

"Was there any visual evidence to support the claim? I'll be back in Prague this summer and if the site is worth checking out, I'd be tempted to do it."


Well, it was fairly suspicious that the tunells had been blocked and caved in were they did. It looked orchistrated.

Thats awsome that you've been there, Prague that is. I'd love to see pics.
 
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