Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Rey is the progeny of...

  • Luke & (Mara?)

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • Obi Wan & (Satine?)

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • Qui Gon & (Shmi?)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anakin & (midi-chlorians?)

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Palpatine or/and Dooku

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Total voters
    13

AndyLGR

Active member
IndyBuff said:
I'm still trying to process it all. It was fun, yet I can't shake some glaring character and pacing problems. It's okay but the people calling it the best since Empire are really over-selling it.

I need to see it a few more times once it comes out on home release, but right now I'd easily place Rogue One and The Force Awakens above it. My wife and I both walked out happy, yet as the weekend wore on we both found major issues with the film that brought it down for us. It has some incredible moments but it also has some stuff that really sinks it too.
My feelings too. I think the Canto Bight casino planet part of the story derails the pace a bit for me.

I'll be seeing it again over Xmas. Definitely not 'the best since Empire' though, I came away from both Rogue One and Foece Awakens more satisfied than with the latest one. However it may be a grower that over time gets better, because I think theres more stuff in this thats different than I expected to happen - and thats why I think some people are unhappy with it in that they make some choices with characters that wasn't expected.
 

roundshort

Active member
Wanted to love it - didnt.


I could see Luke posting infomercial ads like -

"Be a Jedi - 3 easy lessons!"

Casino planet - why. And what was up with the Mos scene. So silly Star Wars is still trying to make amends for having about zero strong women except Leia in a New Hope, and the putting her in a metal bikini in Jedi. It's affirmative action has gone a bit too far.
 

Lambonius

New member
Unpopular opinion time:

I think they should recast Leia for Episode IX and let the character play the larger role in that film's story that they were obviously setting up in this film. Reverence for Carrie Fisher should not outweigh telling a coherent three-part story for the Leia character. I'd rather not just see her arbitrarily written out or "killed off" between films.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
roundshort said:
Wanted to love it - didnt.
... It's affirmative action has gone a bit too far.

They took the rape and pillage out of the kids ride, so now everybody is chasing obesity. Is it really much of a shock that they've gone this direction?
 

Major West

Member
Lambonius said:
Unpopular opinion time:

I think they should recast Leia for Episode IX and let the character play the larger role in that film's story that they were obviously setting up in this film. Reverence for Carrie Fisher should not outweigh telling a coherent three-part story for the Leia character. I'd rather not just see her arbitrarily written out or "killed off" between films.

I sort of agree, but it's been decided already that just won't happen.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Pale Horse said:
They took the rape and pillage out of the kids ride, so now everybody is chasing obesity. Is it really much of a shock that they've gone this direction?

Wait, what? I get the Pirates of the Caribbean referent, but beyond that, I'm lost.
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Wait, what? I get the Pirates of the Caribbean referent, but beyond that, I'm lost.

I think he?s talking about what Joe Brody alluded too, which is the training Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher had to go through to get in shape and lose weight to be in these movies. Given Carrie?s dark past and abuse issues, I guess it?s fair to speculate that had there been no new trilogy, or rather Leia only made a small cameo, there might the chance she?d still be here with us.

Of course her Return Of The Jedi Day were long behind her, but there is a scene in this movie one wonders how much preparation she did.

As far as my thoughts on the movie, I?ll be the odd man out and say I liked it. After leaving TFA really disappointed and enjoying Rogue One the most expensive fan-film as opposed to an official installment, this one felt closest to the original trilogy, and the ending, particularly Luke?s arc, satisfied.

That said...I don?t know what to look forward to in terms of Epsidoe IX, especially with Fisher gone. The new characters just don?t have the same appeal as the original characters.
 

dr.jones1986

Active member
I was very pleased and have loved all three of the Disney Star Wars films. It was unexpected an I enjoyed all of the new characters Rian Johnson introduced us to.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Attila the Professor said:
Wait, what? I get the Pirates of the Caribbean referent, but beyond that, I'm lost.

Instead of chasing 'sex' we're now chasing food. Or better, gluttony. Over stuffing....etc
 

The Man

Well-known member
THE LAST JEDI PLOT SYNOPSIS...

As The Last Jedi opens, we learn that The First Order has been severely limited by the destruction of their planet weapon, except they haven?t been. The Resistance is eager to escape, except they?re not, as they engage in a prolonged battle which costs them several ships and many recruits. Leia berates Poe for relying too much on blowing things up in his fighter, except she then orders him to blow things up in his fighter. Rey hands Luke his fabled lightsaber in a continuation of that conflicted, soulful cliffhanger from the last movie. Except he now is not soulful and conflicted. He throws the lightsaber away and f@cks off down a hill to milk an alien. NOTE: this alien-milking bit is genuinely funny and freaky and not a valid reason for people across the internet threatening to kill themselves. Rey NEEDS to be trained, except she doesn?t, being the most preternaturally gifted, talented, resourceful Jedi ever. Luke kinda decides to train her a bit, except he doesn?t. We learn that Luke, having sensed the Force Pazuzu within Kylo Ben, considered killing him, except he didn?t. NOTE: this is not contradictory to Luke?s character; true, he redeemed Vader, but remembering how much death, mayhem and misery his father inflicted, it?s reasonable that he would contemplate killing Kylo Ben to spare the galaxy of all that sh!t happening again. This is an intriguing nuance to Luke?s backstory interval whatever narrative and not a valid reason for people across the internet threatening to kill themselves. Kylo Ben then decided to kill Luke, except he didn?t. Rey gets frustrated at all this balls, so decides to leave. Luke decides to burn the blessed Jedi manuals, except he doesn?t. Yoda then decides to burn the blessed Jedi manuals. He burns the blessed Jedi manuals. The manuals are indeed burned now, except they?re not. It?s not explained why Luke would turn off the Force and abandon the Jedi code, but still keep the f@cking manuals around anyway. Kylo decides to kill Leia, except he doesn?t. Anonymous TIE fighter pilots decide to kill her anyway. Leia is dead, except she?s not. There?s a mutiny, except there?s a counter-mutiny. Leia and Ellie Satler had agreed upon a plan five hours earlier, except they didn?t impart this information to their own f@cking team, thus inadvertently causing two mutinies. Rey turns Kylo Ben towards goodness, except she doesn?t. Kylo Ben has momentarily become a relatable character, except he hasn?t. Snoke doesn?t notice a lightsaber being used against him, despite his power and perception. Snoke is incredibly powerful and perceptive, except when he?s not. Captain Phasma reappears, except Snoke and Kylo Ben would know she kinda caused the destruction of their planet weapon and consequently murder her. Snoke and Kylo Ben are incredibly powerful and perceptive, except when they?re not. Phasma is important again, except she?s not and dies, expect maybe she?s not dead and might appear for a minute in the next movie, f@ck knows. Finn and What?s-Her-Face have spent a good twenty-five minutes on a subplot which is vital, except it?s pointless. They didn?t find a hacker, except they found a hacker. They died in prison, except they didn?t. They freed creatures, except they?ll soon be recaptured. The hacker helps, except he doesn?t. The First Order could easily have intimidated or tortured information from the hacker, expect they give him the equivalent of the Powerball and he flies away. Ellie Satler destroys a huge destroyer by light-speed flying herself into it, except nobody ever used this amazingly decisive tactic ever before. The Resistance escapes to a planet in order to survive, except they decide to make a suicide run against AT-AT-on-steroids things. Finn decides to sacrifice himself by flying a knackered speeder into a giant thermo-laser cannon, a bit like Randy Quaid in Independence Day, except What?s-Her-Face stops him. What?s-Her-Face saves Finn because protecting what you love is the key to victory now, except she probably did to experience the legendary black c@ck, except by doing this she left the ENTIRE Resistance vulnerable to destruction. Luke shows up, except he doesn?t. Kylo Ben fires an entire armada?s worth of ammunition on Luke, expecting him to die, except he doesn?t. Kylo Ben doesn?t realise that Luke is just jerking him off at this point, despite being incredibly powerful and perceptive. Kylo Ben is incredibly powerful and perceptive, except when he?s not. F@ck knows. Kylo Ben fights Luke, except Luke isn?t there. Luke lives, except he doesn?t. Luke dies, except maybe he?ll come back. We then see a Force-sensitive boy cleaning a stable from the subplot that doesn?t matter, except now it does. The film, except for maybe one plot point progression, pretty much ends where it began, except for two-and-a-half hours passing.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Spoiler!

Haven't seen it, but it sounds like Luke went out like Kirk in 1994, and neither actor is happy about it. Shatner summoned the power of a ghostwriter to resurrect his character, so who knows. Here's a prediction for 2018: Rian Johnson submits his outline for a new trilogy to Lucasfilm, then waits by the phone, and waits and waits. An epic rant from Scriptshadow:
How did a Star Wars movie this bad escape Disney’s notoriously intense evaluation process? I have a theory about this. Bob Iger has been VERY PUBLIC about how much he likes this film. I have a feeling that from the beginning, from the second he read the script, he loved it. And what that did is it relieved anyone under him of blame. For the first time, Kathleen Kennedy didn’t have to micro-manage the production because it didn’t matter how the film turned out. If it’s bad, you blame Bob Iger. So she relaxed, let Rian do whatever he wanted, and created a work hierarchy reminiscent of George Lucas on the prequels, where everyone nodded and said, “Great idea!” I predict that this movie sinks fast once word of how bad it is gets out. And that in 3 months, we’ll hear that Rian’s new trilogy has been canceled. I mean, honestly, how could you endorse any new Johnson Star Wars movie after this one? The guy only had to introduce 3 new characters in The Last Jedi. THREE! And all of them were terrible. You’re now going to allow him to create hundreds of new Star Wars characters? Johnson also managed to do something that, before this film, you’d think was impossible. He destroyed the memory of the most beloved movie hero of all time. Mark Hamill tried to warn him. “I fundamentally disagree with everything you’ve done with this character” he famously told Johnson when he read his script. It turns out Hamill was the only one who stood up to Johnson.
Merry Christmas JJ Abrams. "I suppose you must have the whole day. Be here all the earlier next morning."
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Wow. Thanks for posting -- I don't think I would have read that otherwise (though, I don't know if I would call that a 'rant'). After reading the Scriptshadow analysis, all of the garbage in the Last Jedi now makes sense.

I have long thought Disney was too deferential to JJ Abrams with some of his ideas in the Force Awakens -- and the Scriptshadow analysis provides a very plausible explanation of the Last Jedi as a reaction to a defective product (TFA) by a lesser talent -- with the upshot that the trilogy is now totally f*'d -- and further afield. As I've said elsewhere, it's a red hot mess.

I especially agree with the observation about Rian being 0-3 in new character development. There is a certain George (Phantom Menace phase) Lucas hatred for the source material that can't be denied.
 

Lambonius

New member
Haven't seen it, but it sounds like Luke went out like Kirk in 1994

With all due respect, maybe you should see it, because Luke's merging with the Force (it isn't even entirely clear it's a death, per se, and it's obvious he'll be back in the next one) is nothing at all like Kirk' s death in Generations, which was much cheaper and out of the blue. Luke's was built up to through the entire film and was a cathartic moment that felt very earned. Frankly, I think it was one of the best handled main character deaths I've seen in a movie in a while, and for me it sat way better than Han's death in Force Awakens.
 
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Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Lambonius said:
With all due respect, maybe you should see it
I have, despite having known everything going in, and it's great. I thought it would be the work of another rogue director who unlike the others made it past the firing point. The story group is still in charge. Whatever JJ Abrams does next is unknown, but will surely make a satisfying trilogy.

Loved the mirror effect from Black Swan. And the Rashomon inspired flashbacks, used only as necessary. Billie Lourd was in this a lot, and might as well fill the story gap Carrie Fisher left behind.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Secrets explained by the Lucasfilm Story Group:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/p09c0MXDxto" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

starwars-lastjedi-deletedscene-spa-alien-700x378.jpg
 

Lambonius

New member
Good God! Remember how awesome it was when movies were actually designed to tell complete stories on their own and not be launch pads for endless interconnected tie-in merch bull****? Ugh.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
It falls behind New Hope and Empire as my 3rd favorite and is growing. And yes, I saw the Original in theaters in 77, so I'm outside the targeted audiences.
 

Z dweller

Well-known member
Pale Horse said:
It falls behind New Hope and Empire as my 3rd favorite and is growing. And yes, I saw the Original in theaters in 77, so I'm outside the targeted audiences.
F-me... The Horse has spoken.

I was going to give this one a miss, but now I'm going to have to watch it based on this recommendation alone.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Z dweller said:
F-me... The Horse has spoken.

I was going to give this one a miss, but now I'm going to have to watch it based on this recommendation alone.

I saw it three times, before diving in to it's nuances. Like every art, there is some flaws, but what I did appreciate, is the careful attention to small details easily missed by an audience that wants to be pandered to. It's like a visual representation of Frost's The Road Not Taken.

I get what the Lucasfilm story-team and Rian are doing, and for that, I love it.

Joe Brody said:
I especially agree with the observation about Rian being 0-3 in new character development. There is a certain George (Phantom Menace phase) Lucas hatred for the source material that can't be denied.

Yes, this is the weakest part of this film. And while characters dominated the IV-VI, story arc is the leading reason to re-look at the material as a whole. It's unfortunate that source material isn't more recognizable, but to that end, it's refreshing too.
 
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