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Old 08-27-2007, 08:32 PM   #76
sarah navarro
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Nor did I ever.

But to rave about him or Spielberg or any other individual part of Indiana Jones (with the possible exception of Ford who I respect greatly--though again am not a huge fan of--for his paving the way for a newer, more modern brand of leading men) is frankly absurd. Indiana Jones is greater than the sum of it's parts.

But to call Williams great or a genius is equally stupid... and someone here did exactly that. Calling him competent is a far more respectful and fair judgment. That's acknowledging some degree of skill but reserving some outlandish claim of genius.
oh sorry if it was me I just got a little excited*grunt*I didnt mean for everyone to get all butt hurt.But whatever I like John Williams ALOT,and I was just stated my opinion like everyone else around here .If you dont like him I dont care.I just was so happy all my feelings poured out (even though i knew it was no doubt he was scoring it) no offense
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:39 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by sarah navarro
oh sorry if it was me I just got a little excited*grunt*I didnt mean for everyone to get all butt hurt.But whatever I like John Williams ALOT,and I was just stated my opinion like everyone else around here .If you dont like him I dont care.I just was so happy all my feelings poured out (even though i knew it was no doubt he was scoring it) no offense

Don't worry, Sarah. He was referring to me, not you.

And if he would bother to read my posts (especially the one containing the basic definition of a "genius")...he would see that Mr. Williams clearly and plainly is one.

Of course, that would require him to respectfully acknowledge the opinion of someone who disagrees with him...which he clearly seems incapable of doing.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:41 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Nor did I ever.

But to rave about him or Spielberg or any other individual part of Indiana Jones (with the possible exception of Ford who I respect greatly--though again am not a huge fan of--for his paving the way for a newer, more modern brand of leading men) is frankly absurd. Indiana Jones is greater than the sum of it's parts.

But to call Williams great or a genius is equally stupid... and someone here did exactly that. Calling him competent is a far more respectful and fair judgment. That's acknowledging some degree of skill but reserving some outlandish claim of genius.


Again, the definition of a genius is as follows;

"A genius is a person of great intelligence, who shows an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work. The term may also be applied to someone who is a polymath or a prodigy. Although the term is sometimes used to denote the possession of a superior talent in any field (e.g., Roger Federer may be said to have a genius for tennis or Winston Churchill for statesmanship), in many instances the term is used specifically to denote an exceptional natural capacity of intellect in areas of art, literature, music, science and mathematics."

I think that most people with real musical training and education would concede the fact that John Williams is a musical genius of sorts. That may make me sound like a "dumb-ass", according to Resident Alien, but...I don't care. I know Williams' music too well...I've heard musical experts around the world say the same thing about Williams...and I've heard the same words from the mouths of the top musical professors in this nation to dispute that idea.

And, to pro-actively defend myself from other attacks sure to follow, when I use the fact that I've heard too many others call Williams a genius as evidence or semi-basis for my calling him one...I'm not merely regurgitating what I've heard others say and I don't "believe everything people say" as Resident Alien would have everyone believe.

I'm just saying that I know music...and I know Williams' music...and I came to this conclusion and see that too many other people agree with me to think that I might be insane or wrong.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:44 PM   #79
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Oh Snap !!!!Schooled Son!!!!
John Williams clearly fits that description.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:51 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by sarah navarro
Oh Snap !!!!Schooled Son!!!!
John Williams clearly fits that description.


Gee, damn shame then that I can't read his post. I do love being "schooled."



Guess, I'll go back to listening to my Metal Machine Music and Adult Themes For Voice. Or maybe some Antonin Artaud. You know some of that nice gentle pop music because obviously I don't know a damn thing about avant-garde music.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:59 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Gee, damn shame then that I can't read his post. I do love being "schooled."



Guess, I'll go back to listening to my Metal Machine Music and Adult Themes For Voice. Or maybe some Antonin Artaud. You know some of that nice gentle pop music because obviously I don't know a damn thing about avant-garde music.
Did the first part of this make sense?
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:05 PM   #82
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Did the first part of this make sense?

I blocked him yesterday. ...you must have missed that post.

His posts are invisible to me. Merely a "User blocked" box when he posts.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:22 PM   #83
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oh does he know that?
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:28 PM   #84
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oh does he know that?

I told him that...
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:33 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
I blocked him yesterday. ...you must have missed that post.

His posts are invisible to me. Merely a "User blocked" box when he posts.

Yeah, he blocked me or put me on "ignore" or something.

Juding from what I've seen of his posts he must not like debating with someone who actually knows what they're talking about in regards to the topic he's debating...or he can't stand not being totally dominant in a discussion.

My point was never to "own" or "school" anyone...it was merely to point out that calling Williams "uncreative", "merely competent", or "trite" and arguing against his musical genius is foolish, somewhat ignorant, and definitely a misinformed argument.

Resident Alien can spout out all the impressive composer names he wants in regards to what he listens to...but that doesn't take away from the fact that his basic argument against Williams and his defiance towards my stance towards Williams' musical genius is seriously flawed.

Also, just because you listen to something doesn't mean you're in any position to judge it in terms of its technical or compositional value. You can certainly say you don't like it...but if you lack a serious musical understanding, education, or training...then you're in no position to judge the merits of a composition from that perspective.

That'd be like me saying that the Chrysler PT Cruiser is not a "good" car. I can't say that because I have no REAL knowledge of what makes a car good or not. I can say that the PT Cruiser does not appeal to me on a visual or asthetic level...but I am in no position to judge the quality of the car. Same thing for a Picasso painting. I can say that it doesn't appeal to me on an asthetic level and does nothing for me visually...but for me to say that Picasso was merely a "competent" painter...or that his paintings are not "good" is completely, totally, and ridiculously ignorant.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:05 PM   #86
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oh sorry well you did "own and"school" him,thats defintly why you were blocked.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:08 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by sarah navarro
oh sorry well you did "own and"school" him,thats defintly why you were blocked.

Lol. Nothing of the sort. But believe that if you like. Doesn't dampen my resolve. I've thick skin.
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Old 08-30-2007, 07:07 AM   #88
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I think even if someone holds avante garde music higher than tonal music, they could still hold Williams in very high regard. Ever heard his "Images" or "Soundings"? He can get way out there, and write very modern music that's still tantalizing.

Or, if you want to call it Pop, Alien, look no further than the music from the Well of Souls. I don't think aleatoric techniques and atonal music written for a 108 piece orchestra counts as pop.

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Old 08-30-2007, 08:46 AM   #89
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I don't think aleatoric techniques and atonal music written for a 108 piece orchestra counts as pop.

My thought exactly. I was just about to put a post about Williams' atonal technique.
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:51 PM   #90
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You can go on and on and on... but to say that Williams isn't good is ridiculous. There's too much proof, too many famous pieces of his music.

A genius... maybe. But I think when most people use that word it's kind of a laughable term. Do you think HE thinks he is a genius? I doubt it.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:36 PM   #91
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Atonal my foot. Atonality is not synonymous with the avant-garde. Sure it's used in avant-garde music but being atonal does not immediately signify avant-garde.

As I said before I never denied the Williams tunes are enjoyable--but I'm in no way a fan--he's a simple-minded composer.

And I'm entirely sick of this discussion at this point.

I'm out.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:39 PM   #92
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Resident Alien pulls the famous, "Too many people are presenting quality evidence to support their argument and their opinion. So, rather than debate logically, I'm just going to cop out and be a baby and run away" routine.

That's fine with me. Again, calling WIlliams simple-minded is just about the dumbest thing ever.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:14 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by drwynn
Resident Alien pulls the famous, "Too many people are presenting quality evidence to support their argument and their opinion. So, rather than debate logically, I'm just going to cop out and be a baby and run away" routine.

That's fine with me. Again, calling WIlliams simple-minded is just about the dumbest thing ever.
yah,if he could of read this post he would of been back in new york minute
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:16 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by sarah navarro
yah,if he could of read this post he would of been back in new york minute


I can now.

Lol. When you quote it I can read it.

Heh. Whatever. He can think that if he wants. I don't give a **** what he thinks--he's wrong and that's all that matters.

As I said anyway, I'm done with this argument. One could shout genius all he wants the point is moot--I can point out all the ways in which saying he is a genius is absurd--but again, it's a hopeless debate that will never find a side. Continuing such a discussion isn't worth my time.

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Old 09-03-2007, 03:26 PM   #95
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The thing that makes me laugh about Resident Alien and his attitude towards this whole debate is that whenever he's presented with solid facts and evidence, a clear and well-thought out debate, and someone who won't back down...he tucks his tail between his legs and leaves.

I mean, how many times already have we seen him write something like this;

"And I'm entirely sick of this discussion at this point.

I'm out."

And yet...he keeps returning to the scene of the "crime" whenever he feels his ego or persona has been challenged. It's nothing but humorous and transparent at this point...

Also, he accused me of being ignorant and looking like a dumb-ass for using the word "fact" in my argument; yet, he returns to this debate thread to say that my opinion is "wrong". Well...isn't that a bit contradictory and hypocritical of him at this point...especially after all he did to try and make me look like a supposed idiot for trying to present "facts" in regards to such a subjective topic? You can't have it both ways, Resident.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:27 PM   #96
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Oooh and a new response from our resident dip****, mr wynn. Don't bother quoting it Sarah, I've no interest in it.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:32 PM   #97
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Oooh and a new response from our resident dip****, mr wynn. Don't bother quoting it Sarah, I've no interest in it.
I was going to ,but if you dont care I wont.He does have a good point though,using facts doesnt make someone a dumb#ss,if someones able to use facts that makes them a well educated person.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:34 PM   #98
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I was going to ,but if you dont care I wont.He does have a good point though,using facts doesnt make someone a dumb#ss,if someones able to use facts that makes them a well educated person.


Lol, but he wasn't using facts. He was throwing around the word "genius" all willy-nilly. That's not education, that's blatant fan-boyism. It doesn't mean anything, you see.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:36 PM   #99
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yah,if he could of read this post he would of been back in new york minute

It seems you are correct!

To me it seems as if for Resident, it's not about presenting a logical, quality argument. It's more just about being opinionated, being "right", making his opponent look like a supposed "idiot", and having the "final word".

Not to get into politics...but, it reminds me a lot of Republican debate tactics.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:42 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Atonal my foot. Atonality is not synonymous with the avant-garde. Sure it's used in avant-garde music but being atonal does not immediately signify avant-garde.

As I said before I never denied the Williams tunes are enjoyable--but I'm in no way a fan--he's a simple-minded composer.

And I'm entirely sick of this discussion at this point.

I'm out.
If hes simple minded,how has he won so many academy awards?Dont you have to be pretty darn creative/original/talented to get such an honor?

-dr.wynn sounds right to me
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