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Old 12-16-2012, 10:30 PM   #151
ROB98374
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I saw the movie the first day it was released back when I was a kid, got the first run of the VHS when it was released at retail, the original DVD trilogy exclusive from Best Buy with the bonus disc, and the Blu-ray set.
I have no proof, but I swear I remember that scene. I checked all the home versions I have and it is not on any of them. My father inlaw has the RCA selectavison that I will check... I remember watching it on those old RCA discs back then. I rented the Lasdisc, but never owned it, so I don't know what it has. Either I saw it in the theater or on TV, or maybe reading about it messed up my memory.
If it really happened, I wish someone had some proof.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:49 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB98374
If it really happened, I wish someone had some proof.

Seriously, I think it's memory conflation of the cargo deck scene with the warehouse. I seriously, seriously doubt that Lucas would be brain-dead enough to put a sequence in a picture that equates the US Government under Roosevelt with Nazi Germany.

For the record, I've heard this rumor since my usenet days, roughly 1989. To this date, there has never ever been any proof of this scene ever surfacing despite dozens of people claiming to have seen it, have the Betamax, VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, BluRay copies with it on it, etc... So, I'm saying that this scene never happened.

But I'm ponying up. I'll pay for the expense to disseminate this evidence if anyone here who claims to have it will put it forward. Until then, I'm calling "bovine feces".
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:41 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Colonel Corey
It's on my disc set...

But unfortunately your discs are at the bottom of a cliff underneath a tank?

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Old 12-17-2012, 10:53 AM   #154
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Hahahahaha, nice! Maybe his disks have the egg scene from ToD too! man, we got to get those!!!
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:30 AM   #155
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Like the twisting going on in another thread, it seems like there is a simple misunderstanding going on in this one...

OH! Sorry, with regards to someone's DVD set and what's on it.

But I guess this is what you get when you don't see the whole picture...
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:59 AM   #156
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Key Clue

There is a clue which proves that it was, at the very least, an IDEA shortly before principal filming actually began.

From the "Raiders" Continuity Breakdown document (28 May, 1980):

SET: INT. HOLD - BANTU WIND
Scene No. 122. ARK IN HOLD - RATS AGITATED.
SPECIAL EFFECTS: WIND EFFECT AROUND ARK

SET: INT. GOVERNMENT WAREHOUSE
Scene. No. 160. ARK IS NAILED IN CRATE LOADED ON TO TROLLEY AND WHEELED AWAY BY OLD WAREHOUSEMAN
SPECIAL EFFECTS: WIND EFFECT AROUND ARK?
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Stoo
SET: INT. GOVERNMENT WAREHOUSE
Scene. No. 160. ARK IS NAILED IN CRATE LOADED ON TO TROLLEY AND WHEELED AWAY BY OLD WAREHOUSEMAN
SPECIAL EFFECTS: WIND EFFECT AROUND ARK?

The wind effect is actually still there, just subtle. (Notice the dust as it's nailed shut). The cresendo music downs out the wind's sound effect, though it's a little audible in the Blu Ray release (which has remastered sound). I don't think that this is indictative of God hating the United States, which was what the burning of the Nazi symbol was supposed to indicate.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #158
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Just to leap in here with no data.

Like the "tie himself onto the periscope with his whip" scene which is present in my memories (although I believe those memories to be manufactured based on the comic book), I'd go on record as saying this "second burning" causes vague associations with my memory subsystems. Analyzing my own reaction, it's more of a sense of feeling that the scene is missing rather than a memory of the scene itself. I would be interested in hearing about this posited scene appearing in other media of any sort, but also in correlation with the nationality and age of those who claim to have seen it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
I don't think that this is indictative of God hating the United States, which was what the burning of the Nazi symbol was supposed to indicate.

My psyche tells me that a burning off of a US flag would give closure to the film, refining the message that God hates Nazis to the more subtle, powerful, and perhaps ominous message that the of Ark is beyond the claims of any nationality. This is nice and tidy, and aligns well with my proper Canadian upbringing during the 1980s which brings along a deep seated distrust of the United States*. At that time, the Cold War was in full swing with Reagan's twitchy finger on the button and we expected ICBMs to fly overhead in both directions at any time.

I would posit, therefore, that any such memory I possess of a "second burning" is manufactured out of a subconscious need for symmetry, and in no way corresponds to photons hitting my eyeballs. Correlation between reported memories of such a scene and nationality would be quite interesting.

* I've lived in the US for 17 years now, but as a kid I didn't want to talk to a relative who'd married an American!
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
SPECIAL EFFECTS: WIND
Of course, there's always wind, even down in the Well of Souls.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InexorableTash
My psyche tells me that a burning off of a US flag would give closure to the film, refining the message that God hates Nazis to the more subtle, powerful, and perhaps ominous message that the of Ark is beyond the claims of any nationality.

I'm not sure how anyone could miss the symbolism of the God of the Jews burning away a Nazi emblem in 1936. I mean, we're not exactly talking subtle here...
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:32 PM   #161
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Again, I'm not trying to prove that the scene exists. This is merely to show that the recent rebuttals hold no weight:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
The wind effect is actually still there, just subtle. (Notice the dust as it's nailed shut). The cresendo music downs out the wind's sound effect, though it's a little audible in the Blu Ray release (which has remastered sound). I don't think that this is indictative of God hating the United States, which was what the burning of the Nazi symbol was supposed to indicate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
Of course, there's always wind, even down in the Well of Souls.
Guys, "sound effects" are SOUND! The Continuity Breakdown document has seperate sections for sound effects (but I didn't include them). The WIND EFFECTS were in the SPECIAL EFFECTS sections of both scenes, and those boxes in the document meant: VISUAL EFFECTS

@Vance: Dust from the nailed crate? Are you actually suggesting that this dust was a special effect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
I'm not sure how anyone could miss the symbolism of the God of the Jews burning away a Nazi emblem in 1936. I mean, we're not exactly talking subtle here...
Such a scene wouldn't necessarily be equating the U.S.A. with Nazi Germany. It probably would have been a statement that "the of Ark is beyond the claims of any nationality" (just as InexorbaleTash so astutely surmised). G_d does not equal The United States nor any other country. Having the Ark burning off the warehouse stencil would've been a nice double-twist ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InexorableTash
Correlation between reported memories of such a scene and nationality would be quite interesting.
Indeed, it would, Tash! For starters, the largest number of reported witnesses are from the Australia and...the United States!
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:50 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Dust from the nailed crate? Are you actually suggesting that this dust was a special effect?

Don't forget that any script-called effect, even if they're just stage directions, can fall under this category. "Make sure the dust is stirred up as the music builds up in this shot" would indeed qualify.

Quote:
Such a scene wouldn't necessarily be equating the U.S.A. with Nazi Germany. It probably would have been a statement that "the of Ark is beyond the claims of any nationality"

Yeah, most of the casual audience wouldn't take it as such, and it also undercuts the very real point of The God of the Jews being made to serve Hitler... Seriously, how can anyone miss that?

Quote:
Indeed, it would, Tash! For starters, the largest number of reported witnesses are from the Australia and...the United States!

Memory confusion mixed with some oikophobia... but it's been 30 years and no one can put up a shot of this. If there was an actual release with this 'scene' in it, it would have shown up years ago - at least the day after YouTube opened.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:45 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Don't forget that any script-called effect, even if they're just stage directions, can fall under this category. "Make sure the dust is stirred up as the music builds up in this shot" would indeed qualify..
Vance! Before you bother challenging this...Please read the Continuity Breakdown document and you'll see that this effect is SPECIFICALLY CATEGORIZED as a "SPECIAL EFFECT" (in the exact, same categorized box as the Bantu Wind shot).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Yeah, most of the casual audience wouldn't take it as such, and it also undercuts the very real point of The God of the Jews being made to serve Hitler... Seriously, how can anyone miss that?
Which part of the "casual audience", though? The religious kind or the non-religious kind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Memory confusion mixed with some oikophobia... but it's been 30 years and no one can put up a shot of this. If there was an actual release with this 'scene' in it, it would have shown up years ago - at least the day after YouTube opened.
You can't say that with absolute certainty, Vance. How many people (all over the world) filmed "Raiders" from the the theatrical screen in 1981? How many people (all over the world) recorded "Raiders" from TV in 1982?
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:58 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Vance! Before you bother challenging this...Please read the Continuity Breakdown document and you'll see that this effect is SPECIFICALLY CATEGORIZED as a "SPECIAL EFFECT" (in the exact, same categorized box as the Bantu Wind shot).

I wasn't really challenging it, just pointing out that any called-out effect is a special effect, even if it seems particularly mundane, like stirring up the dust, etc.

Quote:
Which part of the "casual audience", though? The religious kind or the non-religious kind?

Dude, serioiusly, saying "In God's eyes, you're just more Nazis" is pretty much going to offend anyone... except maybe Nazis... and even then they'll be offended by the flipside. Yeah, there's no 'win' here.

Quote:
You can't say that with absolute certainty, Vance. How many people (all over the world) filmed "Raiders" from the the theatrical screen in 1981? How many people (all over the world) recorded "Raiders" from TV in 1982?

With absolution? I'll say that there was never a main release that included this cut. Ever. Period. All of the film's releases are documented, including changes made... none, not one, ever mentions this.

Also, considering how different the props would have to be from the final cut to the 'mystery scene' here (entirely different crates, different imagery, and differing scene layout), I would say it's about as definitive as you can get without a time machine.

This is another internet myth and nothing more.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:39 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Also, considering how different the props would have to be from the final cut to the 'mystery scene' here (entirely different crates, different imagery, and differing scene layout), I would say it's about as definitive as you can get without a time machine.

Also, don't forget the score would have to be different too. If your a "pre-credit believer" and you believe the scene was somewhere before the credits, that would mean there would be an alternate music cue there as well, as the music is none stop from scene on Washington steps.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:09 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
I'll say that there was never a main release that included this cut. Ever. Period. All of the film's releases are documented, including changes made... none, not one, ever mentions this.

Also, considering how different the props would have to be from the final cut to the 'mystery scene' here (entirely different crates, different imagery, and differing scene layout), I would say it's about as definitive as you can get without a time machine.

This is another internet myth and nothing more.

I agree. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, eyewitnesses are known to be extremely unreliable, and memories easily altered. But it is fascinating to analyze these and try to figure out how these originate and resonate with viewers. Like other such scenes there is often some trigger which can be identified.

For this one, I suspect it's the vaguely similar framing of the burning scene and the stenciling scene, and the repetition of the Ark's musical theme.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:55 PM   #167
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You saw Indy and Marion drive away in the theater.
You saw Indy and Marion drive away in the theater.
You saw Indy and Marion drive away in the theater.



Consider it. Now put it out of your mind. Sleep on it.
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:07 PM   #168
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I registered just to tell everyone that I clearly remember the words and symbol being burned off the box after it was put in the warehouse.

It's common for different cuts of movies to be shown in different parts of the country and different in other countries.

I read that the scene where the German strong man was cut from Germany and Sweden.

The ending meant to me that the ark was lost again because it was the identification code that was also burned off of it. That's why no one knows where the ark is to this day.

I first saw the movie when it came out and I lived in the midwest and saw it several times since then on TV and rented in various formats and the ending was always there until the very last time I saw it on TV a few weeks ago and that's why I searched for it because the ending was missing.

I'm not sure what symbol was on the box but I remember it being an eagle and it could have been a US eagle or a Nazi eagle. Somebody could buy the australian version on ebay and see if it's there. Maybe I will, but people who weren't alive to see the original release and immediate subsequent releases on primetime TV shouldn't have much to say about this since they are too young and didn't actually see it themselves. I suspect that most of the people on this thread are too young to have seen the original release.

But anyway, movies are edited and re-edited ALL THE TIME... Just try to find an original release of star wars. You can't. I also remember the ending of star wars being very different in the way the death star exploded. I'm sure they had different explosions and finally settled on one and the other was just thrown in the trash somewhere before the film was finalized and stored for posterity or dups were made. This stuff happens all the time.
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:45 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeppp
I registered just to tell everyone that I clearly remember the words and symbol being burned off the box after it was put in the warehouse...I'm not sure what symbol was on the box but I remember it being an eagle and it could have been a US eagle or a Nazi eagle. Somebody could buy the Australian version on eBay and see if it's there. Maybe I will, but people who weren't alive to see the original release and immediate subsequent releases on prime-time TV shouldn't have much to say about this since they are too young and didn't actually see it themselves. I suspect that most of the people on this thread are too young to have seen the original release.
Hi, yeppp! Welcome to the Raven, it's good to see some new faces around here.
I want to preface this by saying that I'm not trying to doubt the validity of what you thought you saw, but there are problems with everyone's recollection of this certain scene. First off, there was no symbol on the U.S. crate besides the numbers and writing. The eagle you're remembering was a Nazi one, and it was burned much earlier in the film. Secondly, the supposed "US crate burning" isn't present in the finalized script. Even if it was an inserted scene after the fact, calls for an effect of that nature aren't listed in production logs. Furthermore, recollections of this scene vary from person to person. Some say it was a post-credits scene, others say it was during the movie. If you don't mind me asking, when did you see the scene in the film?
And P.S., the whole thing about the Aussie DVD is bogus, at least to my knowledge. A friend who had it couldn't recall any scene of that nature when I asked him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeppp
But anyway, movies are edited and re-edited ALL THE TIME... Just try to find an original release of star wars. You can't. I also remember the ending of star wars being very different in the way the death star exploded. I'm sure they had different explosions and finally settled on one and the other was just thrown in the trash somewhere before the film was finalized and stored for posterity or dups were made. This stuff happens all the time.
You actually can find the original Star Wars saga on DVD (a despecialized version) albeit presented in a very minuscule screen, as well as the old VHS tapes. As for different Death Star explosions, I can't help you there, but all the cuts I've seen (whether Special Edition/VHS/Despecialized DVDs) appear to be the same explosion.
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