Red Tails

phantom train

New member
I hope Red Tails does great at the box office, and am very happy it finally got made & released; I know Lucas has been wanting to make the film for 20+ years.

I haven't seen Red Tails yet, but definitely plan to at some point. I'm sure I'll like this, since I have enjoyed all of the films Lucas has been involved in, even the ones that didn't do well at the box office and/or didn't get great reviews, i.e. More American Graffiti, THX-1138, Willow, and Radioland M.
 

Henry W Jones

New member
phantom train said:
I hope Red Tails does great at the box office, and am very happy it finally got made & released; I know Lucas has been wanting to make the film for 20+ years.

I haven't seen Red Tails yet, but definitely plan to at some point. I'm sure I'll like this, since I have enjoyed all of the films Lucas has been involved in, even the ones that didn't do well at the box office and/or didn't get great reviews, i.e. More American Graffiti, THX-1138, Willow, and Radioland M.

Even Howard the Duck? ;)

Speaking of Red Tails, I've been reading Lucas is gonna be done with "blockbuster films" after this one. That's not good for Dr. Jones I presume.
 
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Stephen Jared

New member
Just wanted to throw my two cent opinion in on Red Tails. I loved it. Strongly recommended. The review from AICN is predictable. His line about Lucas caring more about aerial battles than the racist/segregationist aspect of the story is an unnecessary personal attack against Lucas that should have no place in a movie review. How does "Capone" know what George Lucas cares about?

Anyway, go see the film. It's old-Hollywood, edge-of-your-seat, excitement, filled with heroes that may not be terribly sophisticated in character development but certainly are rich in character with regard to their nobility. It's a great film. Every aspect of it worked for me.
 

Sharkey

Guest
Red Tails no pictures memories or flashbacks of the black women who loved them.

Lucas "all black cast" only love interest was a white girl.

Where were the black women?
 

Stephen Jared

New member
@IndyFan4ever, I read Harry's review. Thanks for putting up the link.

@Sharkey, I think the point of the love interest was to show that people can rise above the issue of race.
 

Crack that whip

New member
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't remember seeing anyone mention the Indy connections. Aside from the obvious involvement of George Lucas, Rick McCallum and Ben Burtt, director Anthony Hemingway was a production assistant on The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.
:hat:
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Sharkey said:
Where were the black women?

That's a tall order for a film set entirely in Italy during WWII (not to mention a few scenes in the Pentagon).

The film was indeed by-the-numbers. While some criticisms are undeserved (the Italian setting being too Idyllic for one), others are warranted (that script was the product of all those years of development and script doctoring?)(it's dishonest to have a character with a flaw -- like drinking -- and not show consequences of the supposed flaw).

I've got to go watch Flyboys again, which I think was made by wealthy neophytes. I wouldn't be surprised if that film has more dramatic heft that something made over years by one if not the wealthiest filmmaker on the planet (cornball treatment in the Tarantino-esque credits notwithstanding).

Saving grace was seeing the flic on a Saturday night with a good crowd in D.C.
 
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Stephen Jared

New member
Hi Joe,
I'm confused when you say it's dishonest to show a character flaw and not have consequences when the character with the drinking problem -- Easy -- captained one of their flying missions that went badly and got chewed out for it pretty extensively by the character called Lightning (because they lost a guy), who blamed the captain's failure on his drinking. Then Easy went to Terrance Howard's character and wanted to quit over it. He felt like a failure. There were consequences to his drinking.

Also, just curious, why bring up the "wealth" of the filmmakers? I don't understand how that has anything to do with either Flyboys or Red Tails. I'm just looking for your train of thought there. Thanks!
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Stephen Jared said:
I'm confused when you say it's dishonest to show a character flaw and not have consequences when the character with the drinking problem -- Easy -- captained one of their flying missions that went badly and got chewed out for it pretty extensively by the character called Lightning (because they lost a guy), who blamed the captain's failure on his drinking. Then Easy went to Terrance Howard's character and wanted to quit over it. He felt like a failure. There were consequences to his drinking.

Howdy,
I'll have to watch it again -- but I don't recall any visual manifestation of his drinking resulting in harm. In the mission that went awry what went wrong due to his drinking? Was he drunk when he got Ray Gun's flight status restored? Film is a visual medium. So having Lightning yell at Easy about his drinking and having Easy sitting around clutching a bottle just doesn't cut it. Instead, give me a drunk Easy that's too drunk to make a shot or captain a mission or drunkenly punch a superior. That's the way to show consequences. The drunken soldier has been done before in countless movies and it could've done better here. I suspect the filmmakers here just weren't brave enough to show a sloppy, drunken Easy for fear that it would alienate the audience.

Stephen Jared said:
Also, just curious, why bring up the "wealth" of the filmmakers? I don't understand how that has anything to do with either Flyboys or Red Tails. I'm just looking for your train of thought there. Thanks!

You're right. With respect to Flyboys, I was just making the point that that film was the product of novices and that Red Tails was made by the king-of-the-mountain. The wealth of the Flyboy's producers explains how that film got made (outside of normal studio channels). Lucas's wealth is (damningly relevant) because he unquestionably had the resources to perfect his 'passion' project.

For me, Lucas calling Red Tails a popcorn picture just doesn't fly. Sure there was the opening credits, some of the music and cornball lines, but at the end of the day the film was straight up and wooden. I know popcorn when I see it -- give me Starship Troopers or Mars Attacks any day -- but Red Tails does not qualify.
 
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Stephen Jared

New member
Joe, it was the poor decision-making on the part of the captain that caused Ray Gun to go down and end up in a POW camp. Lightning confronted the captain, not just because he had been drinking, but because the drinking was affecting his performance as captain -- he was putting them all in danger. Again, there were consequences to the drinking.

I agree with you that Lucas calling it a popcorn film isn't entirely accurate. If you were selling it, how would you describe it? Obviously, it's not trying to be Saving Private Ryan. I'm asking you because I have no idea how I would have sold it if I was Lucas. It's somewhere between popcorn film and Private Ryan -- but that's a big gulf.

Also, indulge me a moment by letting me throw my two cents in about the criticism many have made about the film using cliches: Like all Lucas films, it's rooted in old-fashioned Hollywood films. It's kind of hard not to fall back on ideas used before if what you do is at least partially a tribute to old Hollywood. Indiana Jones and Star Wars used a lot of ideas that had been used before -- so what? It's hard for me to understand how it is that if Tarantino appropriates ideas from other films, it's brilliant. JJ Abrams -- no problem. But with Lucas, it seems he is judged by a different standard. There's a popular film out right now called The Artist. The whole film is a collection of old Hollywood motifs. And everyone is praising it to the skies, saying how wonderful it is because it's like an old Hollywood movie. Does it not seem just a little unfair that when Lucas falls back on old Hollywood ideas, he's pummeled by fans and critics alike -- "WE'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE, GEORGE!" The first section of Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds is made to be exactly like a Sergio Leone film. That's praiseworthy, but what if Lucas had done that?

Let me try to be clear, I'm not saying Lucas' films are perfect. I don't think he'd say that. But he is a filmmaker like no other. As example, I love The Phantom Menace. I think the middle part of the film gets a little slow. I think the whole way we meet Anakin is terribly contrived. They need a part for their ship and Tatooine just happens to be there, and then the only way to get the part is if little Anakin participates in this wild podrace. It's all pieced together awkwardly. But despite that, the film has so much imagination on display that it's jaw-dropping to me. And it was unlike anything anyone had ever seen before. There's still nothing like the SW prequels in terms of visual imagination. Does Lucas not deserve some credit?

I just think people are a little unfair when it comes to Lucas. It's not that I want people to praise Lucas for Lucas' sake. I just think it's a shame for movie fans that they seem to have such a hard time enjoying his films anymore. They get nitpicky in a way they are not with other filmmakers. They seem to relish hating his newer films. Lucas recently announced he's retiring from features and stated that one of the reasons is everyone seems to hate his films. In my opinion, that's a big loss to film geeks like myself and many of you who come to the raven.

Lastly (I know -- sheesh!) for what it's worth, I took an 86 year old man to Red Tails with me. He was an aviation cadet in WW2. He's met some of the Tuskegee airmen in person. He loved the movie. Thought it very exciting and an appropriate tribute to the heroism those men showed.

I hope more of you will give the film a chance while it's in theaters.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
George Lucas Loses $60 Mil Plus
?Red Tails? cost at least $58 million to make plus another $10 million for marketing. (I?m being conservative.) No one wanted to finance it, so Lucas put up the money himself and got 20th Century Fox to distribute it. He worked on the film for three years as producer, but ultimately had to reshoot a lot of director Anthony Hemingway?s work. They intentionally skipped Oscar season, and slid the movie into release in mid January?the dead zone in the movie world, the place where bad films are sent to watery graves. And now, ten weeks later, ?Red Tails? is at rest with barely $50 million in the bank. Since theater owners got half that money, ?Red Tails? is really, really red. So far there?s no been no foreign release; it?s hard to imagine there will be much of one coming.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
”Red Tails” cost at least $58 million to make plus another $10 million for marketing. (I’m being conservative.) No one wanted to finance it, so Lucas put up the money himself and got 20th Century Fox to distribute it. He worked on the film for three years as producer, but ultimately had to reshoot a lot of director Anthony Hemingway’s work. They intentionally skipped Oscar season, and slid the movie into release in mid January–the dead zone in the movie world, the place where bad films are sent to watery graves. And now, ten weeks later, “Red Tails” is at rest with barely $50 million in the bank. Since theater owners got half that money, “Red Tails” is really, really red. So far there’s no been no foreign release; it’s hard to imagine there will be much of one coming."

Sounds like Lucas & McCallum decided to just mess up another project with potential. They just couldn't let the director do what he wanted and had to take control.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
"Red Tails" is finally being released in Europe. It's been showing in France for about 2 weeks but it opened in the U.K. today. It's not showing here in Switzerland yet but our cable TV service has several U.K. channels and I've been seeing a lot of commercials for "Red Tails". One of them starts with something you don't hear everyday:

"From the creator of Star Wars and Indiana Jones..."(y)
 

Stephen Jared

New member
Hey Stoo, given your ability to diverge from modern sensibilities with regard to films, appreciate older styles of filmmaking, I think you'll like Red Tails.

As to the previous post, Roger Friedman has always been distasteful to me as a journalist. You can tell from the quote that he relishes any opportunity to pile on negativity. "They intentionally skipped oscar season." - I seriously doubt Lucas ever thought Red Tails was going to be an oscar contender. "Theater owners got half that money." - He should know better. When a film is released, most money goes to the film company, not the theater. Theaters make money off popcorn and an extended successful run. As weeks pass, theaters begin to earn a more equitable share of the ticket cost. This is why studios push so hard for opening weekend bucks. So, Red Tails put more than 50% of the 50 million back into Lucas' pocket. "So far there's no foreign release, hard to imagine much of one coming." Wrong again. Incidentally, Friedman got fired from his last job for seeming to promote piracy.

I also can't help but touch on this notion of Lucas getting his greedy hands on his own films and changing things, presumably making the films worse. They are his films. It's his money. He should have final say. Is it possible he improved the film from what it had been? I don't know, but it's discouraging when I feel so alone in thinking that's a possibility. If he can't help but wrestle control away from directors and ruin films, why did Empire Strikes Back turn out so good? Is he really such a drastically different person today? Somehow, I doubt he is.

Anyway, see the film, Stoo, then let us know what you think.
 

WilliamBoyd8

Active member
I saw "Red Tails" on April 26, it was on a United Airlines flight from Frankfurt to San Francisco.

I didn't think it was that good of a film, the modern computer effects clashed with a 1940's story.

:)
 
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