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View Poll Results: What's your favorite fight scene?
Flying Wing (German Mechanic) 33 51.56%
Rock Crusher (Thugee) 9 14.06%
Tank Fight (Vogel) 15 23.44%
Big Damn Ants (Dovchenko) 7 10.94%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-26-2009, 01:11 PM   #26
The Drifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
Just to be clear, he's not fighting fair to be fair and honourable, he's doing it to patronize Indy. He's like a big bully.

As for whether or not he's a villain, whether he's a nice guy or not, he's fighting on behalf of Nazi Germany. That makes him enough of a villain.



Look above at those puppy-dog eyes, and that wide-mouthed smile of glee. He thinks he has Indy whipped, but alas the poor chap never knew what was coming for him just a few seconds later.
How can you NOT feel sorry for him?
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonsome_Drifter


Look above at those puppy-dog eyes, and that wide-mouthed smile of glee.

Maybe he just wanted to play!
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:09 PM   #28
michael
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For me it's the Tank fight.

1.) Tank fight
2.) Flying Wing fight
3.) Rock Crusher fight
4.) Big Damn Ants fight

I've always just loved the whole tank fight/sequence. It still has THE best stunt out of all the movies, with the leap onto the tank. So epic. The drama inside the tank with Marcus and Henry, the way Vogel fights so dirty, the way Indy hangs on just by his satchel (and then for his life on the cliff), all the music that accompanies it, just wonderful. And really, does it get any better than Indy just smashing Vogel's face over and over again?
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:17 PM   #29
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I love the fight inside the truck with the tough german in Raiders.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:07 PM   #30
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The rock crusher scene takes top spot for me, although the flying wing is a VERY close second. In fact, I liked all of the fights listed in the poll; each one was different and exciting in its own right.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:53 AM   #31
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FLYING Tank CHASE

Really close one! I love both the tank and the plane.
But I decided that I favored ...
the Flying Tank Chase
Ya know the FTC
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:47 AM   #32
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Rock Crusher for me. Such a great fight scene.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:01 PM   #33
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I picked the tank fight, in which the SS-Standartenführer attempts to rape Jones.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:54 PM   #34
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Now don't get me wrong, I love the fight scenes in the first 3 films, but when I first saw Indy's fight with Dovchenko by the ants, I was just amazed. The fight between Indy and the German mechanic was extremely well done, for it really showed Indy in over his head, and it was in that scene were you can really see the influence that Buster Keaton had in Indy's character. Consequently, it really isn't a fight scene as it is just Indy trying to get away from this guy, this is in no way a criticism as this is what makes the scene unique. The fight with the thugee overseer is also well done, but I was always a little disappointed that Harrison's back injury prevented him from filming the entire fight scene himself. The fight with Vogel isn't really brought into the main focus as the scene has far more emphasis to Indy trying to survive on the tank, not to mention Vogel isn't nearly strong enough to pose a real challenge to Indy. What I really loved about the fight with Dovchenko is that he was far more in the middle between Pat Roach and Vogel when it came to strength. He is obviously much stronger than Vogel and is able to cause an incredible amount of pain and discomfort, but he isn't so strong that Indy isn't able to cause any damage. And consequently, we have a far more frantic and brutal free for all with these two men trading blow after blow. The music playing during the scene really sends chills down one's spine and really caused my heart to beat incessantly. The final blows Indy lays upon Dovchenko holds nothing back, with each blow made even more brutal with Ben Burtt's magnificent punching sound, and a stream of blood dripping out of Dovchenko's mouth. This of course culminates in what has to be one of the most disturbing death scenes in the Indiana Jones films since the scene where Toht's face melts and the scene where the Hindu's heart is ripped out from his chest by Mola Ram, played by a fantastic Amrish Puri. The scene with the German mechanic was a better scene when it comes to portraying Indy in over his head, but the ant fight scene was just a better fight scene overall, and one of Harrison's best action scenes since the Truck Chase in Raiders of The Lost Ark.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:50 PM   #35
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I liked the Dovchenko fight but I can't help but obsess on Harrison "mouthing" his own sound effects:

Bam bam bam bam...

It's as though the used cuts from rehersal footage.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
I liked the Dovchenko fight but I can't help but obsess on Harrison "mouthing" his own sound effects:

Bam bam bam bam...

It's as though the used cuts from rehersal footage.

I've never noticed this before, at what point can you tell he does this?
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:13 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avidfilmbuff
I've never noticed this before, at what point can you tell he does this?

Before he goes down to the ants, it's not to hard to find/notice, (now that you're looking for it) be carefull you'll never be able to go back!
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avidfilmbuff
The fight between Indy and the German mechanic was extremely well done, for it really showed Indy in over his head, and it was in that scene were you can really see the influence that Buster Keaton had in Indy's character. Consequently, it really isn't a fight scene as it is just Indy trying to get away from this guy, this is in no way a criticism as this is what makes the scene unique.

I'd pick the German Mechanic fight because it does have that comedic, character building aspect. Indy's in grave danger, he's fighting for his life, yet it's also funny. I love the moment Indy gets hit and he just falls back on his butt with a look of complete shock on his face. This is vulnerable Indy, rather that super-hero Indy, but then he's always using his intelligence to overcome greater odds.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:11 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pellman
The only problem I have with the flying wing scene is ... they didn't establish that he is a bad guy. In fact, he could very well be a good guy.

Here he is, just a regular soldier, responsible for getting a plane ready to fly. And here comes some guy, obviously an enemy of some sort, trying to sabotage the plane. Not only does the mechanic do his duty by stopping the attack but he does so by challenging him to a fair fight. And continues to fight fair when the enemy fights dirty.

I always felt sorry for him.

It is an example of how American films are prejudiced against Germans. If you have a German bad guy, you don't have to establish that he is bad. Being German is enough.

All that aside, I agree that it is a great fight.

I think you're confusing German bad guys with Nazi bad guys.

Anyway, I also went with the flying wing fight. It's great. There's the element of imperative timing involved where Indy has to get to the Ark. That whole scene had me on the edge of my seat as a kid. And then it leads right into one of the greatest chase scenes of all time. Brilliant. Only the rock crusher fight scene has a respectable follow up scene that challanges it.

With that said, I like the atmosphere of the rock crusher fight, especially with Shorty's involvement in taking out the prince and his doll (I refuse to call it a voodoo doll; there are no voodoo dolls in India!).

The big damn ants scene is good stuff, too. I love it when Indy gets a double up on Dovchenko and spins himself back on to him; he looks both ways, disoriented (in such a charmingly hilarious way that only Indy can deliver) and turns to give Dovenchko a right cross, when Dovchenko falls on his arse. Great Indy. Just the same, I think they're first fight, though be it shorter, is better.

The only thing that has always bothered me about the tank fight scene is when Indy gets his strap caught on the cannon. It would have been physically impossible for that to happen the way it is shown (I love suspending my disbelief for the plots, but something like that is just lazy writing). Even if it was possible, the way he's hanging there, "trapped" in his bag, he could have easily lifted himself up, pulled his left arm over, and gotten out.

Last edited by Peru1936 : 11-30-2009 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:22 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peru1936
I think you're confusing German bad guys with Nazi bad guys.

There were only a few 'Nazis' shown on screen in Raiders: Toht and probably his suited henchmen. Toht displays his party membership by wearing the little enamel pin badge on his jacket.

Dietrich and the other German soldiers were all regular army, and thus forbidden by their Wehrmacht high command to join the National Socialist German Workers Party. This concession/denial to the army was only overturned after the Stauffenberg bomb plot of 1944.

However, that doesn't prevent the soldiers from being Nazi sympathizers.

All the Germans in Raiders are fair game for Indy purely because in following Dietrich's orders they will bring the Ark to the Fuehrer. And that will spell disaster for the free world.

It is obvious that Pat Roach's mechanic takes great pleasure in giving Indy a beating. He wasn't enacting an arrest of an intruder, there is sheer delight in his eyes. He's the sort of guy who will pick fights for the fun of it, and is likely given a fair amount of respect by his comrades (who might also feel the weight of his fists).

What I like about the fight is that Indy is so outclassed in weight and strength. He's like the comedy boxer that runs round the ring in order to tire out his opponent. He resorts to every dirty trick in order to survive, and who wouldn't?

Dovchenko was also a much stronger opponent. He might not have been as bulky as Pat Roach, but the actor was a former member of the Cirque du Soleil, and they know how to use their strength. On the rocket sled Indy is all but strangled to death, but was saved by starting the rocket, just as he was saved by the flying wing's propellers. It's much more fun to have this sort of hero, than a Schwazenegger-style superman who simply bulldozes his way through legions of enemies.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:28 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Dovchenko was also a much stronger opponent. He might not have been as bulky as Pat Roach, but the actor was a former member of the Cirque du Soleil, and they know how to use their strength.

I'm curious what Igor Jijikine being a former member of Cirque du Soleil has to do with Dovchenko being stronger than the mechanic.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:33 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peru1936
I'm curious what Igor Jijikine being a former member of Cirque du Soleil has to do with Dovchenko being stronger than the mechanic.

Somebody mentioned that he didn't look as strong as Pat Roach, and was therefore less threatening. I was just making the point that strength comes in different forms. Though, I agree, it's not really that relevant. Only that Indy was in great danger from both opponents, and that his methods of escape are inventive.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:43 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Somebody mentioned that he didn't look as strong as Pat Roach, and was therefore less threatening. I was just making the point that strength comes in different forms. Though, I agree, it's not really that relevant. Only that Indy was in great danger from both opponents, and that his methods of escape are inventive.

I see.

Anyway, the way I see it, Indy knocked Dovchenko down but didn't do the same to the mechanic, even though Indy was twenty+ years younger when he fought the mechanic.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:59 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peru1936
I see.

Anyway, the way I see it, Indy knocked Dovchenko down but didn't do the same to the mechanic, even though Indy was twenty+ years younger when he fought the mechanic.

Yeah, the mechanic was brick-like. Punching him was like punching a brick wall. That's why, a while back I wrote that if they ever made a remake of Raiders, the Pat Roach role could be taken by Nikolai Valuev. The much shorter and lighter David Haye broke his hand against Valuev's face early in the fight, but eventually won on points.

http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13877

Dovchenko was strong, but not brick-like.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:40 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avidfilmbuff
Now don't get me wrong, I love the fight scenes in the first 3 films, but when I first saw Indy's fight with Dovchenko by the ants, I was just amazed. The fight between Indy and the German mechanic was extremely well done, for it really showed Indy in over his head, and it was in that scene were you can really see the influence that Buster Keaton had in Indy's character. Consequently, it really isn't a fight scene as it is just Indy trying to get away from this guy, this is in no way a criticism as this is what makes the scene unique. The fight with the thugee overseer is also well done, but I was always a little disappointed that Harrison's back injury prevented him from filming the entire fight scene himself. The fight with Vogel isn't really brought into the main focus as the scene has far more emphasis to Indy trying to survive on the tank, not to mention Vogel isn't nearly strong enough to pose a real challenge to Indy. What I really loved about the fight with Dovchenko is that he was far more in the middle between Pat Roach and Vogel when it came to strength. He is obviously much stronger than Vogel and is able to cause an incredible amount of pain and discomfort, but he isn't so strong that Indy isn't able to cause any damage. And consequently, we have a far more frantic and brutal free for all with these two men trading blow after blow. The music playing during the scene really sends chills down one's spine and really caused my heart to beat incessantly. The final blows Indy lays upon Dovchenko holds nothing back, with each blow made even more brutal with Ben Burtt's magnificent punching sound, and a stream of blood dripping out of Dovchenko's mouth. This of course culminates in what has to be one of the most disturbing death scenes in the Indiana Jones films since the scene where Toht's face melts and the scene where the Hindu's heart is ripped out from his chest by Mola Ram, played by a fantastic Amrish Puri. The scene with the German mechanic was a better scene when it comes to portraying Indy in over his head, but the ant fight scene was just a better fight scene overall, and one of Harrison's best action scenes since the Truck Chase in Raiders of The Lost Ark.
That was very well said. It's not like the other fights are boring, they're just different. The reason I like the ants is because of the pacing. The music, the ants, and the fight at the same time make it one of the great scenes in Indy history IMO.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:40 AM   #46
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Evenly matched, Indy kicked the ass of the first german mechanic. Maybe the monkey wrench gave him the advantage.So I guess Indy was the underdog for both fights.

The rock crusher fight was a vehicle for more voodoo mumbo jumbo than a great fight.

They didn't take the fight on the tank seriously either. It was fun but goofy.

The Dovchenko fight was pretty serious and satisfying. The idea of a confined arena to fight in was fine, it helped the fight, but it would have been much better if it weren't caused by more voodoo. If they had fallen to a ledge which protruded from the wall of a waterfall would have been more to my liking. The rushing water could have saved them from the ants but also would send them crashing to their deaths against the rocks.

I guess that would have made the falling three times bit even more foolish though.
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Old 12-01-2009, 01:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Jones
This might have been done before,but what's your favorite fight scene.
Mine is the Big Damn Ants! It was sheer brilliance and people give it no credit. It was a fast paced, edge of your seat, thrill ride. with a very satisfying ending.
1.Big damn ants
2.Flying wing
3.Rock crusher
4.Tank fight


1.German Mechanic
2.Vogel Tank Fight
3.Thugee Rock Crusher
4.Dovchelnvo (Spelling?)
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:23 AM   #48
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I pick the Thuggee fight. It's got an air of suspense about it that I feel is unprecedented by the other fight scenes!
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:51 AM   #49
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The Flying Wing fight is my favorite hands down. I was just amazed by it when I was a kid and it made me fall in love with the character.
A close second would have to be Indy vs Dovchenko. Waling away from KOTCS, it was the part that stood out the most to me. I had been waiting for the showdown with the soldier villain fight and it didn't disappoint at all. Would I have wanted a couple of changes? Yes of course. I was hoping it would have taken place on the jungle cutter vehicle with a more realistic sense of danger. Still, I loved it and re-watch it more than any other scene in the film.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:36 AM   #50
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German mechanic fight, hands down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pellman
I also have similar reservations about the nameless Germans during Desert Chase, but as for nameless enemies in general, these are always participating in a greater conflict, such as the stormtroopers, or are themselves acting as aggressors. Individually, there may be a decent fool among them who has chosen the wrong side, which is unfortunate. But the point is that they have chosen sides.**

The mechanic is part of a standing army during peacetime (1936) and has not aligned himself with any aggressor. It is Indy who is the aggressor in that scene. The soldiers are just defending themselves and doing their duty.

It is an example of how American films are prejudiced against Germans. If you have a German bad guy, you don't have to establish that he is bad. Being German is enough.

The German soldiers are part of the Nazi army, aligned with Adolf Hitler; by association -- they're getting the Ark so Hitler's army can march across the face of the earth, wiping out all who oppose him (never mind that some among his opponents may be good people) -- they are evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pellman
Opposing the hero is not enough. The hero has to have moral justification to be a hero. But maybe I should start another thread about that.

The moral justification is that madman Hitler wants world domination, and these Nazi soldiers (who also happen to be German) are helping him attain his ambition. These movies (RotLA and TLC) are not about Indy vs. Germans. They're about Indy vs. Nazis. There is a distinction, one that might have been cleared up by having one of Indy's allies be a German native.
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