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Old 05-25-2006, 12:50 AM   #1
JediIndy
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Doing Hitler salute in Germany

10 years ago I was travelling to England and India and was stopped over at the Frankfurt Airport. This was before I started reading history and reading about Adolf Hitler. The man fascinates me. His madness, his genius, the way he transformed a ruined nation to a superpower in less than quarter of a century is amazing. Anyway if anyone goes to Germany and is in the airport or just in the street and saluted any german walking the street and said "Hie Hitler! Hail the Fuhr! " what would happen would people get angry or upset or just ignore it and laugh. And what if you got a nazi bandana and wore it over you arm or even made a nazi S.S uniform? How would germans react? Would they care or ignore it and think your a weirdo? Myself i'm planning to go to Germany in the next year or two with my friends and I am thinking of wearing a nazi bandana on my arm and saluting Germans and saying Hie Hilter and long live the Fuhr!

Is this a good idea?
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:17 AM   #2
Luisiana Jones
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Its not as far as I know, just doing the nazi salute its illegal, u could even find urself in jail for this kinds of things, every apology to ns its illegal and very persecuted in Germany, not so much in Italy or Spain, but germans are pretty not open to those kinds of things, though Jay R Zay will be able to explain to you better the consequences, as he lives there.
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Old 05-25-2006, 05:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediIndy
10 years ago I was travelling to England and India and was stopped over at the Frankfurt Airport. This was before I started reading history and reading about Adolf Hitler. The man fascinates me. His madness, his genius, the way he transformed a ruined nation to a superpower in less than quarter of a century is amazing. Anyway if anyone goes to Germany and is in the airport or just in the street and saluted any german walking the street and said "Hie Hitler! Hail the Fuhr! " what would happen would people get angry or upset or just ignore it and laugh. And what if you got a nazi bandana and wore it over you arm or even made a nazi S.S uniform? How would germans react? Would they care or ignore it and think your a weirdo? Myself i'm planning to go to Germany in the next year or two with my friends and I am thinking of wearing a nazi bandana on my arm and saluting Germans and saying Hie Hilter and long live the Fuhr!

Is this a good idea?

If you've really been reading those history books then you must know the answer to your question. I have a hard time imagining how anyone could take that as a joke. Time to read chapter 2, you know the one about the millions of dead people...
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:18 PM   #4
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Yea, sorry about that. It was just a joke. But I was just wondering really how people would take it. Would people really get very upset and put you in jail. I am not talking about doing it in front of a police officer or anything just in front of a famous site as a joke. Do people still remember any of that? It was a long time ago. It doesn't matter how long ago it was. It is and still part of German history. Yes I would like to get some perspective of someone who lives there. I have read there are still a few groups in Germany who still belive in Hitler and his parties principles and want to bring it back to German politics someday.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:42 PM   #5
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At the least, I think everyone would be thoroughly disgusted. Doing something like that would be disrespectful to all those who died because of that madman. I don't know what I'd do if I saw someone doing that on the street. But I know what I'd be tempted to do: beat the everloving hell out of him.

There's just some things you don't joke about. People are just now able to accept Abraham Lincoln jokes. "I need to go to a theatre like I need a hole in the head." ... I love The Office.
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:02 PM   #6
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Well most people will ignore you, i think. We´ve got some guys here with racial thought, of course, but the majority of them are just ignored.
Some weeks ago I had a walk in hannover and found a neonazi in front of me, I assume he thought I was a friend in mind (i wear a lonsdale hoody) and began talking to me. He spoke about his past, he was bricklayer with job, earned 1,400 euro in the month, then a pole came, took his job (he made the same work for just 300 euro) and the end was his joblessness. The finale was his louder question on the street: "who was fired?" and he shouted "The Aryan!" That was also the point when i turned into the next book store.
Well okay, thats not usual. It doesnt happen often that the guys scream their thoughts all over the place, the most of them are clever enough to keep it calm.

uhm, the question, well as i said, the most people would ignore you. Especially guys who aren´t from germany are trying this kind of "funny jokes", just to have a look for the reactions. And please dont misunderstand me, but, I wanna see behind every guy whos shouting trash like "heil hitler" oder "third reich" a group of punks

But in fact the best thing you can reach in germany with such actions is a charge for scandalization. Nazi symbols are forbidden too.

@JediIndy: Please: "Heil Hitler" and "Heil dem Führer!"

Quote:
Do people still remember any of that? It was a long time ago. It doesn't matter how long ago it was. It is and still part of German history. Yes I would like to get some perspective of someone who lives there.

Neither the germans nor the other nations are allowing the german public forgetting their crimes, their frailties, their blemish.
In school I had the time between 1933 and 1945 (i mean the time hitler "won" the elections and the end of ww2) four times. and everytime a little bit more intensiv. The first contact with the crimes of the third reich in the age of eleven.
Trust me, especially the germans - the government, the educational system and every person with a clear mind - are doing a very very good job in not forgetting their past.
I´m sure better than the most other nations with criminal past. btw.

hope it helps you
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balou
@JediIndy: Please: "Heil Hitler" and "Heil dem Führer!"
When I was in highschool I had german as second foreign language and I had a big problem with remembering when should I use der, when die and when das.
Is there some way that it can be obvious to me wich one should I use? Or should I just remember it for every noun I learn?
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:26 PM   #8
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Thanks very, very much Balou. That was very insightful. So you are from Germany or currently reside there? Like I said I find History fascinating. Personally I am glad germans are teaching about this sad point in human history, but I also am in a minority and think that Hitler was not 100% evil or bad. Like Napolean, Saddam, Julius Ceaser, The Bristish in India, tyrants have also done good. Hitler in my thinking was like a father who loved his country so, so much and wanted his people to achieve and be successful. How he did it was wrong. But he did promote youth groups, improving self esteem, healthy diet and exercise to the Germans. That's something us Canadians and Americans can learn a few things about. Hard work and positive self image. These are not necessarily bad qualities. Of course opressing the Jews, burning them in ovens was a bit too far but nobody is perfect.

I personally have decided not to do that in Germany if I go. I just want to admit that I do respect and admire some aspects of Hitler and what he tried to do to improve his country and some of the things he did do were good and Germans shouldn't be completly ashamed of this man.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:00 PM   #9
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Very very interesting statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediIndy
Thanks very, very much Balou. That was very insightful. So you are from Germany or currently reside there?

well i´m livin in germany, near hannover.

Quote:
but I also am in a minority and think that Hitler was not 100% evil or bad. Like Napolean, Saddam, Julius Ceaser, The Bristish in India, tyrants have also done good. Hitler in my thinking was like a father who loved his country so, so much and wanted his people to achieve and be successful. How he did it was wrong. But he did promote youth groups, improving self esteem, healthy diet and exercise to the Germans.

I´m pretty sure, you´re not finding lots of acceptance for this sight. IMO it´s ridiculous to call a man/government/situation etc. "evil" or "bad". What the heck? The world isn´t a disney-movie, where you´re able to differ between the good and the bad. Imn my opinion you can´t call Hitler or anyone "evil" etc. (please, i´m not a nazi) Of course, the things between 1939 and 1945, the conditions for the jews, the handycapped, the sinti and romanians and the homosexuals were terrible, and nobody shall forget 6,ooo ooo victims, neither the problems and crisis Germany brought for europe and for its one population, but neither Nazi-germany nor hitler hisself were evil.
I cannot trust in the existance of people who call a human being "bad"....

Nevertheless, jediindy, you´ve to keep the things in mind. promoting youth groups, improving self esteem, healthy diet and exercises are pretty good, but Hitler was chasing just one aim: his absolutely unbelievable palns and wishes. Principally the points you named are really good, but in the context they were just one instrument to wage the war. And thats not what intelligent people want, eh?

Quote:
That's something us Canadians and Americans can learn a few things about. Hard work and positive self image. These are not necessarily bad qualities.

O yes, thats right, but try to explain to a canadian or an american that he should transfer some attributes from the nazis. When you´re trying this, be prepaired for a sprint.

Quote:
I personally have decided not to do that in Germany if I go. I just want to admit that I do respect and admire some aspects of Hitler and what he tried to do to improve his country and some of the things he did do were good and Germans shouldn't be completly ashamed of this man.

Well, as i said: you wont find many germans who are able to find just ONE good aspect in hitler. WW2 was finally his fault and with his order millions of innocent people were killed and germany ran into poorness and alliied occupation.
And finally the education (Germany was two times the war monger, they should never have a kind of national pride)and the permanent accusations are doing a great job. I don´t believe you´ll find more than a fistfull people who are not totally ashamend of hitler. (except the neonazis)

Quote:
These are not necessarily bad qualities. Of course opressing the Jews, burning them in ovens was a bit too far but nobody is perfect.

I like your humor. Pretty black. I´m lookin forward to your post

@qwerty: aah one of thousand and one traps in the german language. The articles.^^ in german theyre just describing the gender of the word. "Der" for masculine, "die" for feminine, and "das" for neuter. I fear theres just one way to learn them: training. btw. you always should learn the subject with the article. Thats easier.
It´s great youre able to learn german at your high schools. ( I always thought, americans are just talkin a bit spanish for chatting with the kitchen help )

Last edited by Balou : 05-25-2006 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:00 AM   #10
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Yes I understand your point Balou, the world is not disney like with just good and evil. The world, just like the Nazi's have there white and black and many shades of greys and colors. I am happy to see the Germans teach about their past and that most Germans are ashamed of it. But again I still think Germans should not be completely ashamed of this person and his organiztion. Even Time magazine and many of top economists at the time applauded Adolf and his party for improving the economic conditions for Germans. Remember that in the 30's most of the world was in a severe depression and Germany was booming and expanding. Unemployment was at a extreme low and the doiche marks were trading on the same level as the british pound and American dollar. This was all accomplished before the war and the holocost.

Back in Canada when you talk to any average person under 30, there is little or next to no awareness of Hitler except he was a evil dicator 50 years ago. Even many University students I spoke to 2 years ago had a vague knowlege of this man and said they were not taught much about world war 2. I also was shocked that they did not know who Gandhi was!!! What do they teach kids in Social Studies these days?? Anyway it was interesting posting with you Baloo and heariing about your perspective living in Germany. I was also wondering since I am interested in travelling there, is there a museum in paticular that you are aware of that focuses mostly on the Nazi's and the early 20th century I could visit? and is there still any abandoned Concentration camps you can visit? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
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Old 05-26-2006, 04:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediIndy
Yes I understand your point Balou, the world is not disney like with just good and evil. The world, just like the Nazi's have there white and black and many shades of greys and colors. I am happy to see the Germans teach about their past and that most Germans are ashamed of it. But again I still think Germans should not be completely ashamed of this person and his organiztion. Even Time magazine and many of top economists at the time applauded Adolf and his party for improving the economic conditions for Germans. Remember that in the 30's most of the world was in a severe depression and Germany was booming and expanding. Unemployment was at a extreme low and the doiche marks were trading on the same level as the british pound and American dollar. This was all accomplished before the war and the holocost.

well, youre right. Nevertheless: His actions were the base for lots of suffering. Maybe he wasn´t clumsy in economical questions, but he sent millions of soldiers into the death, he tried a complete genocide und he differed between worth livin and not.
It´s understandable to see in his person a terrible and horrid person - and nearly nobody wants to be proud of him.

Quote:

Anyway it was interesting posting with you Baloo and heariing about your perspective living in Germany. I was also wondering since I am interested in travelling there, is there a museum in paticular that you are aware of that focuses mostly on the Nazi's and the early 20th century I could visit? and is there still any abandoned Concentration camps you can visit? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.

The best museum for german history. http://www.dhm.de/ (just had a look, between may 18th and august 13 they´re organizing a exposition called "flucht, vertreibung, integration" [fugitive, banishment, integration], takes part in the first decades of the 20th century)

If youre interested in jewish history I recommen the jewish museum berlin http://www.juedisches-museum-berlin.de/
(Theres a permanent exhibition, among other things the jewish life during the time of hitler)

clear thing: http://www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/
http://www.buchenwald.de/
(really great)

If you´ve concrete plans for travelling to germany, aks me, there are lots of interesting stuff about the nazis beyond big museums and tourists attractions.
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Old 05-27-2006, 05:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Luisiana Jones
Its not as far as I know, just doing the nazi salute its illegal, u could even find urself in jail for this kinds of things, every apology to ns its illegal and very persecuted in Germany, not so much in Italy or Spain, but germans are pretty not open to those kinds of things, though Jay R Zay will be able to explain to you better the consequences, as he lives there.

true. actually, the way we deal with our history is growing bizarre now. it is now prohibited to wear symbols like this one:



because they could be "mistaken for nazi symbols". the whole matter is complicated and ridiculous in many ways. but, unlike some other details, i believe that the laws concerning the "hitlergruß" (hitler salute) are justified. nazism and racism isn't funny and it's still present. doing the hitler salute isn't just a joke about history, it is a modern day political statement. nazism isn't just history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe Vayoda
At the least, I think everyone would be thoroughly disgusted.

i think so, too, and i disagree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balou
Well most people will ignore you, i think. We´ve got some guys here with racial thought, of course, but the majority of them are just ignored.

according to my personal experiences, nazism is usually anything but ignored. i wouldn't recommend displaying nazism openly in hannover city. disgust, as abe vayoda mentioned, would be the least reaction you could expect.
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Old 05-27-2006, 11:40 PM   #13
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I find it disturbing how the "'Thought Police"....(and you can translate that any way you want)...........dictate their version of history to the world, and then mandate that all other opinions (and facts that don't fit their version) be obliterated..............

I find it disturbing that even certain images are forbidden.

Really, is there that much to fear from an image???

I find it disturbing that generations of people who were not even born when certain world events occurred, are still to this day made to feel guilt and shame by the "thought police" for those events..........which have been twisted to fit the "thought police"'s version.

When we can not view history logically, factually, and impartially, then there is a big problem.

I would suggest that those who seek to hide facts, obliterate facts, impose their version of history on everyone even to the point of enacting laws to forbid any dissent from their version, must be trying to conceal some truths.

I am one who seeks the truth, and will always seek the truth. I will learn the facts myself, and will not allow facts to be dictated to me.

It is accepted as fact in many circles that 6 million jews perished in Europe during World War 2. Do you know that in some countries that if you were to introduce research that indicated that it was indeed 7 million, and not 6 million, that you would be PUT IN JAIL!!

Such is the laws in certain European countries.

YOU CAN NOT THINK ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN THAT WHICH IS DICTATED TO YOU BY THE "THOUGHT POLICE".

And it is not only the 'Holocaust' that is the issue here. Indeed it is that whole period of history. There is a certain version that the "Thought Police" dictate, and to differ from it is to break the law.

I think this is wrong.

Be advised that in Germany, it is ILLEGAL to do ANYTHING that in any way is associated with the NAZI regime.
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Old 05-29-2006, 05:37 PM   #14
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England supporters who give Nazi salutes during this summer's World Cup in Germany will be prosecuted and banned from domestic and international football matches, the home secretary, Charles Clarke, said yesterday.

Announcing measures to counter the hooligan threat to the improving reputation of England's vast travelling support, Mr Clarke condemned any supporters considering exploiting historical animus between England and Germany.

Invoking the Nazi era - including giving a Nazi salute, denying the Holocaust and wearing Nazi symbols - is illegal under German law, and Mr Clarke said he would support the German authorities in prosecuting fans for such offences.

"The era was one of total horror and destruction. It is not a joke or a thing to be made fun of and anyone who thinks it is is wrong. It is deeply insulting and wrong," he said.
Source:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...727869,00.html

(This news story was published before Charles Clarke was kicked out of office for being useless btw)
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:25 AM   #15
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hi guys i have to ask myself if harrisons fight against the nazis was for nothing . i am from austria, also a part of hitlers big reich. hitler was also born in austria. hitler was fighting in world war 1 in böhmen. i am pretty sure that every human´s soul changes if he is 24 hours a day in war. your friends or wathever die in this war and finally you are on the loosers side. everything without sense!? not hitler sayed to himself! i will get it right! that´s a big part of the story i thing. and many others here in germany and austria who also fight in this war(at that time) and who also feel the consequence from the winners might also think like him! this time they will loose.after world war one you needed money in kg to buy breath it can´t go so on! so it was very interesting to listen to hitler, who speaks from the 1000 years deutsches reich, and his plans to get germany back on top! as a strong nation.but finally time goes on and hitler just cares about himself and his phsycho wires.
what to hell have the judes done to get such crimes? the doktor of his dying mam was jude. he wantet also more than the enemys from world ware one, he also hade planes for america! he send troops in summershirts to stalingrad 100.000 dead who cares. at the end he fights against america russia and the rest of the world the war was lost for 3 years people died day after day no problem if we don´t win the ware whe better all die!ausschwitz was a factory like crysler i mean where they bild the cars. 1000 behind plan damm. he don´t cares about the people really!ok i stop

ps: he is fastinatic thats true, but a system like that is just for the people on the top good. i woud like to be hitler ! but a very human one
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everlong
hi guys i have to ask myself if harrisons fight against the nazis was for nothing . i am from austria, also a part of hitlers big reich. hitler was also born in austria. hitler was fighting in world war 1 in böhmen. i am pretty sure that every human´s soul changes if he is 24 hours a day in war. your friends or wathever die in this war and finally you are on the loosers side. everything without sense!? not hitler sayed to himself! i will get it right! that´s a big part of the story i thing. and many others here in germany and austria who also fight in this war(at that time) and who also feel the consequence from the winners might also think like him! this time they will loose.after world war one you needed money in kg to buy breath it can´t go so on! so it was very interesting to listen to hitler, who speaks from the 1000 years deutsches reich, and his plans to get germany back on top! as a strong nation.but finally time goes on and hitler just cares about himself and his phsycho wires.
what to hell have the judes done to get such crimes? the doktor of his dying mam was jude. he wantet also more than the enemys from world ware one, he also hade planes for america! he send troops in summershirts to stalingrad 100.000 dead who cares. at the end he fights against america russia and the rest of the world the war was lost for 3 years people died day after day no problem if we don´t win the ware whe better all die!ausschwitz was a factory like crysler i mean where they bild the cars. 1000 behind plan damm. he don´t cares about the people really!ok i stop

ps: he is fastinatic thats true, but a system like that is just for the people on the top good. i woud like to be hitler ! but a very human one

i'm not sure if i got your point
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:48 PM   #17
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I really lke German and Austrian wine . . .a lot!
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:16 PM   #18
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Holiday Etiquette

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Earlier this year, a 30-year-old Canadian thought he was being game for a laugh when he stood on the steps outside the former Nazi HQ in Berlin and gave a Hitler salute.

The prankster, who was being photographed by his girlfriend, didn't realise that any Monty Pythonesque joke about Hitler and his henchmen is illegal anywhere in Germany.

He learnt the error of his ways in a matter of seconds when he was swiftly handcuffed and led away by police.

Hundreds of tourists fall foul of this law every year in Germany and risk being jailed for up to six months. However, the Canadian funny man was let off with a fine and a warning after spending several hours in police custody.

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Old 08-10-2011, 04:31 PM   #19
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^ I wonder...
Also speaking of Hilter promoting a healthy diet, and self image, has anyone mentioned the fact that he shot up his troops with meth to keep'em going for days? At least that's what I've heard.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:48 PM   #20
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Wow, what was that guy thinking?

Reminds me of when, as a teenager, my family moved to Germany (West Germany at the time, that's how long ago we are talking). The minute we got of the plane in Frankfurt, and set foot in the terminal, my younger brother asked (quite loudly too)..."Hey Dad, did the Germans lose World War I and World War II?"

Fortunately my dad dealt with him before the authorites

**EDIT** Oh snap! I just read the whole thread, you think it's the same guy??? It's gotta be, right?

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Old 08-11-2011, 05:13 AM   #21
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As an ignorant child, I too gave the Hitlergruß in Germany - at Europa Park to be precise. I blamed Freddie Starr, as he was popular at the time for his Hitler impersonation routine.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:00 PM   #22
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What a maccabre topic.

To put it this way: as I interned in Paris (spring 2010) I discussed the politically sensitve case of Israel as a nation-state with a fellow German intern.. She openly spoke that many Germans just don't dare to travel to Israel because they would be harrassed, offended or risk getting any shrewd/negative remarks at their heads over their ancestors or their home state. Especially in this context, it's highly sensitive. In Germany rarely anyone dares to speak out or talk down on the jew classes. Whether that's a good thing, I'm not sure since it is one thing to be antisemitic (i.e. blaming an entire religious class of people) and having comments or an own opinion about the role of Judaism and the jewish people in global politics etc.

I certainly know there's a range of current-day Jewish families who, because of their family history or conviction, will refuse to set foot on German soil in their entire lifetime. Out of principle.

Nevertheless, she also remarked (translated): "In many ways, for foreign relations that imply anything related to security, defence, race and religion... it's no picknick being German". Some scars of history don't heal at all.

I would personally slap anyone (not taller than me however) asap who I see giving the Hitler salute, regardless of the context. I would also say: would you be laughing still if *I* humiliated and gassed you and your next to kin?
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:27 PM   #23
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Firstly, as already suggested, if someone walked around Germany saying the following...

"Hie Hitler! Hail the Fuhr!.... Hie Hilter and long live the Fuhr!"

...they wouldn't be understood because it makes no sense in German.

Secondly, it doesn't make sense to say 'long live someone' if they're, well...dead. You kinda missed the boat on that one.

When they did get it right they'd be perceived as ignorant, stupid, insensitive or perhaps all three. And in a worse case scenario they'd be breaking the law.

Highlighting what you perceive to be Hitler's 'valid' acts does not justify any kind of endorsement of Hitler. Any atrocities outweigh anything else.
Besides, before you start hailing Hitler's economic moves go and read a proper history book (so says my German wife who teaches culture and history at degree level, so there)

Before you consider your bandana I suggest you take a tour of Dachau and Auschwitz.

@Monkey: It's hard to know where to start correcting your erroneous statements...
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by davidraphael
@Monkey: It's hard to know where to start correcting your erroneous statements...



The monkey picked a bad date quite some ago.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:33 PM   #25
neverAcquiesce
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You can't even do it under the guise of an evil character for entertainment as JBL, the wrestler, learned when he goosestepped and saluted as a way to garner sympathy for his opponent.

Here's the video and a brief article about the 2004 incident.
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