Saucermen vs. City of the Gods vs. KOTCS

Which would've been the better film?

  • Indiana Jones and the Saucermen from Mars

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Indiana Jones and the City of Gods

    Votes: 3 100.0%
  • Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3

Raiders90

Well-known member
Going by the three scripts we have:

Indiana Jones and the Saucermen from Mars (Jeb Stuart, 1995)
Indiana Jones and the City of Gods (Frank Darabount, 2003)
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (David Koepp, 2007)

Which would've translated, in your opinions, to the best film, and why?

Can we do some direct compare-and-contrast between the two films' shared elements, plot points, themes and events, as well as their differences?
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Always an interesting topic of discussion. We can talk about this forever.

I'll be jumping in soon but one disclaimer to throw out is this: in effect, all three of these scripts are executions of three different stories as outlined by George Lucas (with Spielberg's input, at least by Darabont's participation) at three separate stages of the movie's development. Each writer was tied to at least a story outline, and there are certainly cases where that included set piece concepts and characters.

In other words, it's difficult to know what story decisions are the province of the screenwriter versus Lucas/Spielberg, and it's worth keeping that in mind when judging the work. For my money the best story and the best screenwriting is found in the Darabont version. The whys will have to come later.
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
I'd have to go with the Darabont version also. After reading that, my enjoyment of KotCS decreased somewhat, if only because I now knew what COULD have been. To me, it was more of a coherent story, and the only downsides were a couple of moments that seemed over the top (the biplane fight being one of them) and perhaps a few too many secondary characters. (BTW, being swallowed whole by the snake and cutting himself out would only have worked thanks to Ford's delivery.)

Saucermen from Mars just seemed...weird. I really didn't get the Indy vibe at all, so much so that if the character names hadn't been present in the script, I wouldn't have realised it WAS an Indy draft. I'm surprised at the peeps here who have spoken up in its defence; it didn't even feel like a complete film to me.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
To be fair, Lucas himself didn't think Stuart quite made it work, so he hired Jeffrey Boam to continue. (Boam was Lucas' original choice but couldn't accept the job initially because he was writing "The Phantom.") Lucas was happy with where Boam ended up, but then Independence Day came out.
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
Udvarnoky said:
To be fair, Lucas himself didn't think Stuart quite made it work, so he hired Jeffrey Boam to continue. (Boam was Lucas' original choice but couldn't accept the job initially because he was writing "The Phantom.") Lucas was happy with where Boam ended up, but then Independence Day came out.

Good point. It's frustrating that we have so many gaps. What's with the professionalism of all these writers, not wanting to burn bridges and sneak the stuff onto the web?! :p

I'd be interested to see Jeff Nathanson's Atomic Ants script too; being in between City of the Gods and KotCS, I wonder if it had a better balance of the two?

Does anyone even know what the atomic ants refers to? (I've done a search of The Raven but couldn't find a thread dedicated to it.) We have the giant insects in City of the Gods and the carniverous ants in KotCS; was this something different?
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
Not sure how to vote. Honestly, its impossible and ultimately pointless to rank an actual movie against hypothetical movies based on unproduced scripts.

But, I really don't care for Darabont's script. I honestly feel its overrated with people liking it because Darabont has a huge fan-base more than the script itself. Most of the "problems" in Skull are still pretty evident in City of the Gods, the aliens are still there, and the ending flat out sucks(quoting Independence Day, really?). Plus, I'll never forgive Darabont for introducing the idea of having Marion return, which I'm not crazy about, despite Darabont giving Marion more to do than what she did in Skull. All in all, I'm actually kinda glad Kingdom was made instead of City of the Gods.

Saucermen...I actually don't believe I've read the script for(realize its on this site, will get around to it) but I do know the general outline, and I think having a Jones film with a completely different style and setting could've been intriguing and fun. I recall the RedLetterMedia review criticizing that while Indy 4 breaks from the "Indy formula", it doesn't break from it enough to feel completely different, and follows the formula enough to make it feel a little boring. Having Saucermen adapted probably would've fixed that. I don't know if the general public would've embraced the idea of aliens anymore than they have, although with the "Saucermen" title more people would've known what they were getting into, which would've been interesting to see the reaction. Plus, the idea of Indy marrying a new girl is something I like far more than I like Indy marrying Marion. Especially if said girl was a redhead...
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
Forbidden Eye said:
the ending flat out sucks(quoting Independence Day, really?).

I'd completely forgotten about the line stolen from Independence Day. That was strange. I almost wondered if Darabont had done it accidentally. Unless it was an intentional reference to the fact that Spielberg decided not to move ahead with the Saucermen script because of the success of ID.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Forbidden Eye said:
Most of the "problems" in Skull are still pretty evident in City of the Gods, the aliens are still there, and the ending flat out sucks(quoting Independence Day, really?). Plus, I'll never forgive Darabont for introducing the idea of having Marion return, which I'm not crazy about, despite Darabont giving Marion more to do than what she did in Skull. All in all, I'm actually kinda glad Kingdom was made instead of City of the Gods.

I don't see any of Crystal Skull's real problems in City of Gods. I do see far more memorable dialog, a wealth of great character moments, wonderfully written set pieces, a grateful lack of offspring, charismatic villains, narrative momentum, general cohesion and structure, established stakes, effective reveals, a sense of danger and thrilling escapes. Not to mention an inspired Hitchockian/noir tribute in the New England segment, and the McCarthysm angle used for more than set dressing.

Otherwise Gods and Skull are exactly the same.

"Aliens" is not a problem with Crystal Skull; shoddy storytelling and its bizarre lassitude were. But if you wanted to harp on aliens, I'd point out that Gods treated the subject matter, and all of its mysteries really, with a heck of a lot more tact and intrigue than Crystal Skull did.

I'm mystified that you despise Marion's return when it's one of the strongest elements of Darabont's script. He nails their dynamic perfectly and there's tons of fun banter. She has some of the best lines. More importantly, her role is an active and integral one. Spielberg liked the idea of bringing back Marion so much that he insisted it remain as an element in subsequent versions, but it's not Darabont's fault that the story evolved to completely change the function and depiction of her character. She's fantastic in his version; in the final version she's a cameo that's initially kept secret for no reason and then relegated to the background until the wedding because she has three other people to share the sidekick role with. Gods has a lot of characters, but most of them are villains (as opposed to ersatz family members) and few of them survive the movie. The scripts are so apples and oranges in execution that the fact that they share a lot of high-level ideas is almost meaningless.

Also, a groan-inducing line of dialog does not ruin an ending, but an inert anti-climax certainly does. Your criteria for what makes a movie's ending suck is bizarre. Darabont's got some indulgent bits in his work, but that hardly compares unfavorably to a movie that doesn't work period. If you're actually throwing the touchdowns then you get a little more latitude. Crystal Skull didn't earn the goodwill for people to laugh off weightless vine-swinging across aggressively CGI canopy, but Darabont keeps the reader/viewer into his story.
 
Last edited:
Top