Ever Notice that all the Movies center around Religion?

A

Adventure Girl

New member
The Indiana Jones Trilogy was always centered around religion.

In the Raiders of the Lost Ark- The Ark of the Covenant. God and the Ten Commandments, brings me back to the Ten Commandments (other old movie if anyone's ever seen it with Charleston Heston (sorry can't spell today))

Temple of Doom the god Shiba and then Shankara stones? (once again don't know if I spelled that right)

Then in the Last Crusade, the Holy Grail, the cup that caught Jesus' blood as he hung on the cross.

Did they mean to make them all about religion or was that just on accident and it's a coinsidence? :confused:
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Adventure Girl said:
The Indiana Jones Trilogy was always centered around religion.

In the Raiders of the Lost Ark- The Ark of the Covenant. God and the Ten Commandments, brings me back to the Ten Commandments (other old movie if anyone's ever seen it with Charleston Heston (sorry can't spell today))

Temple of Doom the god Shiba and then Shankara stones? (once again don't know if I spelled that right)

Then in the Last Crusade, the Holy Grail, the cup that caught Jesus' blood as he hung on the cross.

Did they mean to make them all about religion or was that just on accident and it's a coinsidence? :confused:
Click to expand...

Religion? Really?

Wow, did anyone else notice?
 
A

Adventure Girl

New member
Yeah. I just realized that. The second one was more centered around a different type of religion but if I remembered from my studies correctly it's still a religion.
 
mister64

mister64

New member
People probably associate Indy with Christianity since TOD is the ugly stepsister of the original trilogy and maybe why KOTCS's aliens felt so out of place to most (including me).

If Lucas and Spielberg had made a movie with the ghost theme in the 80s maybe Indy would be more associated with paranormal activity in general. IIRC, the castle in TLC was a leftover from an earlier idea of Indy having to fight ghosts in Britain.
 
JuniorJones

JuniorJones

TR.N Staff Member
Montana Smith said:
Religion? Really?

Wow, did anyone else notice?
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Religion, nope. I don't think god was in it and if he was I don't think they gave him a credit.


Prehaps if you'd change the word religion to occult, you just might have something.
 
AnythingGoes

AnythingGoes

New member
JuniorJones said:
Religion, nope. I don't think god was in it and if he was I don't think they gave him a credit.


Prehaps if you'd change the word religion to occult, you just might have something.
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Correct there, Junior! The occult is the center of things really. God and Shiva and Kali are all 'behind the scenes' administrators who act to clean up the mess so Indy doesn't have to! As a Christian, I find it amusing that the Ark unleashes the fury of Old Testament God and the Grail unleashes the controlled kindness of New Testament God! It would make a good subject for a thesis...
:whip:
 
Cole

Cole

New member
You could also extend this to 'Crystal Skull,' because the ancient S. American tribes worshipped the "aliens" as gods too.

At one point Indy says something like "Depends on who your God is." It's all based on real-life legends/theories.

As I've said before - the Cup of Christ felt like a retread of the Ark, but what made the movie particularly great was how the material was handled. How the relationship is handled between Indy and his father is pure brilliance.

Unfortunately I think some people get like a preconceived notion of what is Indiana Jones........but in my opinion, archeology isn't limited anything, so there's a ton of different directions to take Indy's adventures. I like seeing something a little different.
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Cole said:
You could also extend this to 'Crystal Skull,' because the ancient S. American tribes worshipped the "aliens" as gods too.

At one point Indy says something like "Depends on who your God is." It's all based on real-life legends/theories.

As I've said before - the Cup of Christ felt like a retread of the Ark, but what made the movie particularly great was how the material was handled. How the relationship is handled between Indy and his father is pure brilliance.

Unfortunately I think some people get like a preconceived notion of what is Indiana Jones........but in my opinion, archeology isn't limited anything, so there's a ton of different directions to take Indy's adventures. I like seeing something a little different.
Click to expand...

As I just wrote in the 'What happened to Spalko?' thread, three of the films deal with punishment by the 'gods' involved: dealt to the openers of the Ark; the drinker of the false Grail Cup; and the demander of knolwedge.

KOTCS went even further by having the 'gods' coerce Oxley and Indy by force of mind to do their bidding.

Temple of Doom is the odd one out for various reasons, one being that the cruelty of the Kali was channeled by Mola Ram, whereas in the other films the power came directly from the artifact or 'god' itself. TOD showed that man could call upon the powers of a deity; ROTLA, TLC and KOTCS showed that man is at the mercy of lethal deities, even just by association.
 
Lance Quazar

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
AnythingGoes said:
Correct there, Junior! The occult is the center of things really. God and Shiva and Kali are all 'behind the scenes' administrators who act to clean up the mess so Indy doesn't have to! As a Christian, I find it amusing that the Ark unleashes the fury of Old Testament God and the Grail unleashes the controlled kindness of New Testament God! It would make a good subject for a thesis...
:whip:
Click to expand...

There's a helluva lot of "fury" in those false grails. And a lot more of 'em, too.

Kindness? Only if you're lucky.
 
Goodeknight

Goodeknight

New member
AnythingGoes said:
As a Christian, I find it amusing that the Ark unleashes the fury of Old Testament God and the Grail unleashes the controlled kindness of New Testament God! It would make a good subject for a thesis...
:whip:
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Nicely put, AG. You chose your words...wisely.
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
goodeknight said:
Nicely put, AG. You chose your words...wisely.
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Yet the Grail Knight must have spent his long lonely days maintaining that "controlled kindness" beheading trap... and when it came down to it the Cup had no power beyond the temple. I suppose he just didn't want somebody to try, and bring the temple crashing down.

It was a part of the story that I always found hard to fathom.

Yet another Indy mystery!
 
AnythingGoes

AnythingGoes

New member
Montana Smith said:
Yet the Grail Knight must have spent his long lonely days maintaining that "controlled kindness" beheading trap... and when it came down to it the Cup had no power beyond the temple. I suppose he just didn't want somebody to try, and bring the temple crashing down.

It was a part of the story that I always found hard to fathom.

Yet another Indy mystery!
Click to expand...
By 'controlled kindness' I ment the eternal youth given by the Grail with the controlled restriction of not being able to leave the Temple...perhaps I should've put my words a little differently.:eek:
:whip:
 
Cole

Cole

New member
Montana Smith said:
As I just wrote in the 'What happened to Spalko?' thread, three of the films deal with punishment by the 'gods' involved: dealt to the openers of the Ark; the drinker of the false Grail Cup; and the demander of knolwedge.

KOTCS went even further by having the 'gods' coerce Oxley and Indy by force of mind to do their bidding.

Temple of Doom is the odd one out for various reasons, one being that the cruelty of the Kali was channeled by Mola Ram, whereas in the other films the power came directly from the artifact or 'god' itself. TOD showed that man could call upon the powers of a deity; ROTLA, TLC and KOTCS showed that man is at the mercy of lethal deities, even just by association.
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Mola Ram betrayed Shiva.......you could probably say he still felt the wrath of a deity.
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Cole said:
Mola Ram betrayed Shiva.......you could probably say he still felt the wrath of a deity.
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I know he felt some sharp reptilian teeth! :D

Indy invoked Shiva, so another case of channeling a deity's power.
 
U

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
Indy invoked Shiva, so another case of channeling a deity's power.
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But, as a dubious Indy was informed by the village shaman, the heroes were "brought" there in the first place as part of the machinations of Shiva, so arguably Temple of Doom depicts a deity in control of the events as much as is true in the other films.
 
AnythingGoes

AnythingGoes

New member
Udvarnoky said:
But, as a dubious Indy was informed by the village shaman, the heroes were "brought" there in the first place as part of the machinations of Shiva, so arguably Temple of Doom depicts a deity in control of the events as much as is true in the other films.
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Quite true, Shive is the force that brings Indy and Co. to India in the first place. It can even be argued that the shooting star in the 'Fortune and Glory' Scene was Shiva approving Indy's dicesion to go to Pankot!
:whip:
 
U

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Right - Indy was nothing more than a (righteous) pawn in Shiva's grand scheme to take down the Thuggee cult! It also somewhat helps to explain why Indy knew to recite the prayer that ignites the stones and dooms Mola Ram in the film's climax. It always struck me as a totally random moment, and I like the theory that someone on a higher plane was using Indy as a vessel right then.
 
Attila the Professor

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Udvarnoky said:
But, as a dubious Indy was informed by the village shaman, the heroes were "brought" there in the first place as part of the machinations of Shiva, so arguably Temple of Doom depicts a deity in control of the events as much as is true in the other films.
Click to expand...

Probably more than the other films, to be honest, if we accept the shaman's reading.
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Probably more than the other films, to be honest, if we accept the shaman's reading.
Click to expand...

But hadn't the shaman asked for Shiva's intervention? My feeling about TOD was that it was the one film where people were calling on the power of the gods, and receiving help, rather than gods controlling the events regardless of human wishes.

To clarify my theory:

ROTLA: The Ark would randomly kill everyone who witnessed its opening.

TLC: The false Grail and the traps protecting it would randomly kill the unwary. The true Grail was highly seductive.

KOTCS: The IDBs were dictating events.

Whereas in TOD: Mola Ram was channeling the power of Kali, as was the Maharajah with the 'voodoo' doll.

Mahan the Shaman invoked the power of Shiva to bring Indy to the village.

Indy invoked the power of Shiva to bring power to the stones to defeat Mola Ram.


My theory, then, is that TOD differs in that it is the one film where humans are having a say in how events unfold, by calling on the deities.

There was no grand scheme in TOD, but rather the battle between two gods played out betwen the humans who align themselves to one or the other. In this it follows more the pattern of the Greek myths, as played out in Homer's Iliad and Odyssey.
 
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