CS Haters Thread: Things you actually LIKE about it

Goodeknight

Goodeknight

New member
Okay, I admit I enjoyed CS at the marathon Saturday. It is still, though, my least favorite of the four by a country mile.

But there are a lot of bits I enjoy now. So I wanted to start a thread where fellow CS haters/critics could post briefly what they do actually like about it.

* I loved that Marion returned.
* Loved that they got married.
* Hated Mutt, but I liked that Indy and Marion have a son together.
* Hated how the first 1/4 of the movie seemed like a very long string of one liners. ("I thought that was closer"/"I like Ike"/etc.) But, I absolutely loved a small handful of those one liners, including "What are you, like 80?" and "You're a professor?"..."Part time." Hilarious.
* Loved when Indy referenced riding with Pancho Villa. For me that legitimized the whole YIJC in one shot. Way better, even, then HF's bit part in Mystery of the Blues. I actually hated that. Hated the beard, the bulky winter gear, and especially bringing down the roof avalance with a sour note on his mini sax. Terrible stuff, and it came across as totally "made for tv." But walking through the market and talking to Mutt about it was awesome.
* The market itself looked great.
* Ford, in my opinion, looked great and still has it.
* Liked the closing Raiders March, with the addition of the secondary Indy theme, like Indy's theme had a son, too. Nice.
* Loved catching a glimpse of the Ark in Hangar 51.

Finally, as I've always said, it's just nice to have another Indy movie.
 
Indy Jones

Indy Jones

Active member
Now that's KOTCS hate I can get behind! Nice to see what appears to be genuine feelings as opposed to it supposedly having zero redeeming qualities. The film is over two hours, it's impossible to like even one thing about it? (Besides the end credits, har har)
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Oh, there's plenty of good bits in it, but the only constant is Harrison Ford, and generally most things preceding the landing of the fridge.

The main problem is that because the whole package is so tedious and the characters so lacklustre, that it's difficult to maintain interest enough to wait for the good.

After Doom Town, and even with acceptance of the fridge, I was watching the clock. The snake in the sandpit was the final straw. After that it's hard to see anything through the palm over your face.

The cemetery was a good scene. Yet, as with most opportunities in this film, under-utilized.

I imagine that after George passes on, and Disney takes full control of the character, KOTCS will be a good model for the future. So if you're a Disney fan, I suppose that's a good thing.

Of goodeknight's list,

* Ford, in my opinion, looked great and still has it.
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is the single constant positive I mentioned.

As for,

* I loved that Marion returned.
* Loved that they got married.
* Hated Mutt, but I liked that Indy and Marion have a son together.
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they were all low points.

* Loved when Indy referenced riding with Pancho Villa. For me that legitimized the whole YIJC in one shot.
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This is a tricky one. The YIJC are so different, and so wacky in the sense that Indy is merely a vehicle for education, that the series wasn't really about him. George exploited him then, but the series was nevertheless well made on its own terms. YIJC was really Indy as Forrest Gump, the fevered imagination of an old one-eyed Munchausen. Think Kafka's Prague, August 1917.

If KOTCS legitimized YIJC, then all it was really doing was legitimizing itself as yet another of those wacky tales. Might as well have been another Hallowe'en story like Masks of Evil, because it looked like a nightmare for most of the actors involved.

I could argue that the wackiness combined with the dreamlike quality of KOTCS, in that for much of the time the supporting actors looked like they were there in body but not in mind, was a good thing. Good because the whole mess can be consigned to the 'It never happened department' along with YIJC.

* Loved catching a glimpse of the Ark in Hangar 51.
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This was to be expected. It happened in TLC. It's a callback to the time when Indy was at the top of his game. The Ark lends the weight of an accepted classic to the lesser work. Since KOTCS was an even lesser work than TLC it wasn't surprising that George needed to show the object itself, rather than a two-dimensional image.
 
Olliana

Olliana

New member
It has to be the opening sequence.

"Drop dead!" - SLAP! - "I'm sorry, I meant drop dead...comrade!"

Though the "quest for magnetism" was a bit cheesy.

It looks very dynamic when Indy runs along the stapled boxes and uses his whip to swing over to the driving truck (and misses) - all in one shot. I keep wondering, was this real or some stuntman paired with CGI? Because it looks very convincing. Same for the chain swing through the window.

I like the burning commies during the rocket sled launch, and the priceless looks on their faces afterwards, with Indy falling off the sled backwards.

The whole opening sequence was really a good way to re-introduce Indy to us 20 years later. It has basically shown us what we've missed about adventure movies the whole time.

Furthermore, I like the warm-hearted scene where Indy is sentimentally looking at Dad's picture, with the music and all.

Sadly, the likeable parts of the movie get easily overshadowed by the not-so-likeable parts.
 
Indy Jones

Indy Jones

Active member
Olliana said:
It looks very dynamic when Indy runs along the stapled boxes and uses his whip to swing over to the driving truck (and misses) - all in one shot. I keep wondering, was this real or some stuntman paired with CGI? Because it looks very convincing. Same for the chain swing through the window.
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Yeah, actually. It was all real guys with painted-out safety wires. The swinging to the truck and (I think) the chain swing-kick were both Ford, actually. He did more of his own stunts on KOTCS than the others because he could be rigged with more safety wires on this one and the CGI would just remove it.

Even as a KOTCS lover, I was surprised at how much was actually practical effects instead of CGI. The making-of on the Blu-ray release was a real eye-opener!
 
Goodeknight

Goodeknight

New member
Indy Jones said:
Even as a KOTCS lover, I was surprised at how much was actually practical effects instead of CGI.
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That difference really shines. Given the state of movies today (Lucasfilm movies in particular), half the movie could have been a cartooney CGI stunt sequence. Surprisingly, they chose to use real actors doing real action, and it shows. (Remember when they were discussing whether or not they were going to use real or CG whips??)

During the marathon, I was dismayed at how many bluescreen shots (in the first three films) stood out like a bunch of sore CGI thumbs. Half of the blue screen shots wiggle back and forth noticeably in the shots and there are a lot of harsh rims around the actors against the screen.
 
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russds

russds

New member
Olliana said:
It looks very dynamic when Indy runs along the stapled boxes and uses his whip to swing over to the driving truck (and misses) - all in one shot. I keep wondering, was this real or some stuntman paired with CGI? Because it looks very convincing. Same for the chain swing through the window.
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Indy Jones said:
Yeah, actually. It was all real guys with painted-out safety wires. The swinging to the truck and (I think) the chain swing-kick were both Ford, actually. He did more of his own stunts on KOTCS than the others because he could be rigged with more safety wires on this one and the CGI would just remove it.

Even as a KOTCS lover, I was surprised at how much was actually practical effects instead of CGI. The making-of on the Blu-ray release was a real eye-opener!
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I've loved this scene since I first saw the trailer, the look and feel. Along with the Chain scene mentioned i wondered how they did those in continual shots, they look so real. Are the making of bits you're speaking of available on the new Blu-ray set? i would enjoy seeing how they made those scenes.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
The anticipation.

The nostalgia.

The merchandise, (The Complete Soundtracks / Making of Book etc)

The begining up until the Warehouse opened.

The Diner

The motorcycle chase.

The Adventures of Mutt (music)
The Journey to Akator (music)

The friends I've made here at the Raven...
 
Lance Quazar

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Rocket Surgeon said:
The merchandise
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Good point. I've said this before. As horrible and depressing as the movie was...and despite the damage done to the prestige of the franchise...it was worth it (mostly?) to get the amazing Hasbro line of Indiana Jones figures. They have brought me endless hours of fun.

No matter how we (rightfully) might complain about availability, the flaws, the shortness of the run, the glaring omissions in the line....I'm extremely glad that it exists.
 
JuniorJones

JuniorJones

TR.N Staff Member
Finn said:
Wait, what? Is that even possible?
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harrison+fordathome15.jpg


Friends? Here...
 
Indy Jones

Indy Jones

Active member
russds said:
Are the making of bits you're speaking of available on the new Blu-ray set? i would enjoy seeing how they made those scenes.
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Don't really know yet. I know some of it is on there, but most of the material from the first KOTCS Blu-ray is omitted. What's left is supposedly amalgamated into one condensed "making-of" special for the new set. I don't know what they will or won't include as I haven't yet gotten mine.

As far as I'm concerned, it's worth going to get the previous KOTCS Blu-ray just to have everything. That movie had some of the BEST and most in-depth special features out of any film. Wish the other films and the Star Wars movies had as much attention as KOTCS did.
 
russds

russds

New member
I wouldn't call myself one of the 'haters', but I just want to point out that one thing is hard not to like of CS, which is the score. JW always seems to shine no matter what movie he scores.
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Due to the bump to that Chariots of the Gods? thread, I remembered something else I liked about KOTCS.

The closing of the circle that links back to Raiders and George's early ideas for Indy's world. In KOTCS Lucas was finally able to set out the path he intended for the first film.

The opportunity to see Aliens supplanting God or gods makes ROTLA acceptable, as I never found the proposed existence of a Biblical God in that story to be an easy one to overcome. Indy without God is far better, since religion is the most unappealing aspect of all the movies - especially ROTLA and TLC. To accept them I've always had to view the supposed proof of God and Christ as the crazy illusions or misinterpretations of the characters themselves.

Couple those character misinterpretations with the violent and sadistic nature of the manifestations of God and Christ in ROTLA and TLC, and it's a short step to KOTCS and the tricksters playing games with humans.

KOTCS legitimizes my attraction to the original trilogy, while at the same time acting as a wedge driven between them.

GEORGE LUCAS : The real theory about the Ark is that if you take this Ark and put it in this conformation with these tents, you could talk to God in it. It's like a radio transmitter. That's the real legend. That's what they used to do. The Israelis used to set up these tents and they would talk to God and God would tell them what to do. And then they would march with it in front of their army. The other Armies would be destroyed. Our idea was that there must actually be some kind of super high-powered radio from one of Erick Von Daniken's flying saucers. The fact that it's electrical charges makes it vaguely believable.
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GEORGE LUCAS : One of the things of his character is that he is very skeptical, very cynical. In the beginning he is reluctant. "The Germans haven't found it, for Christ’s sake. Those guys are running all over the world being crazy. That's a real myth." He sort of doesn't believe it. It's like a wild goose chase. He isn't even sure it exists. The thing of it is that in the end they convince him to do it because they say this Professor Erich Von Daniken, or whatever, this German version of himself is the one who found it.
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GEORGE LUCAS : In Leviticus it describes it. How they built it and here it came from. He thinks Von Daniken's first book, "Chariots of the Gods" has some stuff in it about the Ark. The theory I'd heard is the one about being able to speak to God when you set up all the silk cubicles and that stuff.
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ROTLA Story Conference Transcript, 1978.
 
Goodeknight

Goodeknight

New member
Montana Smith said:
The opportunity to see Aliens supplanting God or gods makes ROTLA acceptable, as I never found the proposed existence of a Biblical God in that story to be an easy one to overcome. Indy without God is far better, since religion is the most unappealing aspect of all the movies - especially ROTLA and TLC. To accept them I've always had to view the supposed proof of God and Christ as the crazy illusions or misinterpretations of the characters themselves.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it makes much more sense to know that aliens came down, tricked people by playing a humble carpenter, got them to think He was God's son, and then used their awesome alien-brain-technology to imbue a "cup of a carpenter" with what would appear to be supernatural healing powers. If Henry Sr. broke it in half and looked at the cross section, he would have found real illumination. He would have seen it was an intricate machine, perhaps alien manufactured nanobots that do instant surgery on wounds, that healed him, not faith, or the power of God.

As for Lucas' comments, they make me like the original trilogy less, and help me realize why CS sucked so bad. Oops!! This isn't supposed to be 'bash CS' thread! Sorry. Have to follow my own rule....

What I should say is that I'm thrilled that people had the guts back then to go head to head with Lucas and tell him he had some truly stupid ideas. The collaborative effort really shows in the original trilogy. Same with Star Wars. Heavy rewrites made the original trilogy much better than the prequels that George did himself -- kicking everybody else out of the sandbox so he could play alone. As king of his own imaginary universes, Lucas calls from on high and his minions do his bidding -- by reading his crappy dialogue and following his crappy outlines and ideas to the letter.

I'd like to imagine a Hollywood universe where George Lucas is just as all powerful, but where he's also self aware enough to know he needs help. I'm surprised he came up with the collective, hive brain idea. In his reality, it's a bunch of little brains, with his crystal skeleton sitting at a giant throne at the head of the table. "Brains, I've got an idea. There are these things called midiclorians...and we don't even need real actors to do this one. Go get the computers, and as many 1s and 0s as you can find..."

Rocket Surgeon said:
The anticipation.

The nostalgia.

The merchandise, (The Complete Soundtracks / Making of Book etc)
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Now you're talking. That year leading up to the release was great. And the goodies afterward were a nice addition.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
goodeknight said:
Yeah, it makes much more sense to know that aliens came down, tricked people by playing a humble carpenter, got them to think He was God's son, and then used their awesome alien-brain-technology to imbue a "cup of a carpenter" with what would appear to be supernatural healing powers. If Henry Sr. broke it in half and looked at the cross section, he would have found real illumination. He would have seen it was an intricate machine, perhaps alien manufactured nanobots that do instant surgery on wounds, that healed him, not faith, or the power of God.
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Heh heh heh heh...got to admit, taking him seriously really leads to a decent chuckle!
goodeknight said:
I should say is that I'm thrilled that people had the guts back then to go head to head with Lucas and tell him he had some truly stupid ideas.
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Hallelujah and Amen!

Something that makes sense!

Lucas cast his own Trinity into the pit: Gary Kurtz, Richard Edlund, and Marcia Griffin.

Gary was there to guide creation, Dickie Edlund brought it all down to earth and Marcia was the spirit.

Such was thier influence that what suffered after them couldn't deminish the creation...

...and God knows Lucas has been ridden out of town on a rail for running roughshod over their contributions.

Who knows, unchecked we might still be talking about :)p ) and enjoying this:

Until the recent GREAT REBELLION,
the DAI NOGAS were the most
feared warriors in the universe.
For one hundred thousand years,
generations of DAI perfected their art
as the personal bodyguards of the King.
They were the chief architects of the
invincible ROYAL SPACE FORCE,
which expanded the King's power across
the galaxy, from the celestial equator
to the farthest stars.

Now these legendary warriors
are all but extinct. One by one,
they have been hunted down
and destroyed as enemies of
the NEW GALACTIC KINGDOM by a
ferocious and sinister rival
warrior sect, THE LEGIONS OF LETTOW.​
Click to expand...

goodeknight said:
The collaborative effort really shows in the original trilogy. Same with Star Wars. Heavy rewrites made the original trilogy much better than the prequels that George did himself -- kicking everybody else out of the sandbox so he could play alone. As king of his own imaginary universes, Lucas calls from on high and his minions do his bidding -- by reading his crappy dialogue and following his crappy outlines and ideas to the letter.

I'd like to imagine a Hollywood universe where George Lucas is just as all powerful, but where he's also self aware enough to know he needs help. I'm surprised he came up with the collective, hive brain idea. In his reality, it's a bunch of little brains, with his crystal skeleton sitting at a giant throne at the head of the table. "Brains, I've got an idea. There are these things called midiclorians...and we don't even need real actors to do this one. Go get the computers, and as many 1s and 0s as you can find..."
Click to expand...


Now YOU'RE talking. We are in tune on this song.
 
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