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Old 05-23-2003, 06:33 AM   #26
Indy Smith
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Quote:
Originally posted by swords
Indysmith: They didn't throw it in to say, look at us, we're human, we're different.

You can call me Smith! Mr Anderson!

Well why was that scene so boring to me? Because for me it went on far too long. It didn't actually do anything to the plot did it? Nope, not really. You could have cut it down to 30 seconds of Neo and Trinity shagging and ended it there.
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Old 05-23-2003, 08:53 AM   #27
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Thats cool, Smith.

I thought the rave was cool anyway, you thought it was a bore, I guess we can call that George.

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy Smith
You can call me Smith! Mr Anderson!

[/b]

My name-is-NEO!
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Old 05-24-2003, 01:57 AM   #28
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I'm going to enjoy watching you die...Mr ANDERSON!
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Old 05-24-2003, 09:19 AM   #29
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hmmm, we're quoting backwards. Anyway, this is the part where I jump up, smash you against the subway ceiling, then do a crazy backwards flip, then you get ran down.

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Old 05-25-2003, 07:23 AM   #30
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I have just seen Matrix Reloaded!

the movie is entertaining. but like many others, im not satisfied.
too much action, the plot isnt very developed.

the first part didnt have so much action, it was more focused on the plot.

and the sex scene with all those guys dancing in a kind of disco doesnt have anything to do with the main plot, i found that scene unnecessary and boring.
besides, when you see the first movie and Zion is mentioned, but not shown, it makes you believe all kind of things of how zion might look like. and when it is shown in this movie, that feeling of not knowing an dimagining is gone. i dont know if i am explaining myself good.

the action scenes are far too many and far too long. the 100 smiths fight was cool, but his presence isnt necessary for the plot. and the movie doesnt focus on the agents that much.


the spirit of the first part isnt shown in this sequel, im really disappointed.

anyway, i have a question.

SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
V


the architect of the matrix at the end talks too much and too fast, i couldnt quite follow what he said. explain me everything, because that part was the most important one and i didnt really get it. i wanna know EVERYTHING he says, there were like six versions of the matrix or so. all that.



[Edited by EvilNazi on 05-25-2003 at 08:33 am]
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Old 05-25-2003, 07:42 AM   #31
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Innit gezer.

That bit well bored be with the gezer wiv the white hair and beard. When I first saw him I thought he was gonna say he was god.

I gave up listening to him. All i got out of it is that there were more ones and that he had to choose to take 7 people and start up Zion again or let evey human die.

But at the end of the film in not sure if they r still in the Matrix or the World in which they now think is real is another Matrix for people who wont exept the programme.

I cant wait for the next Matrix to see what happens. I hope theres lots a fighting again coz thats th bits that are really wicked.
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Old 05-25-2003, 09:33 AM   #32
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Yeah, the guy with the beard was the Architect, the builder of the Matrix, the master program if you will. So essentially, he was god. He talked like a college text book and I seemed to be the only one in the theater who understood what he said, so I'm going to explain it. If you haven't seen the film STOP READING! I'm not really sure how I got this in one sitting (especially in the front row), but I'm pretty sure this is exactly what he said.

The architect told Neo, in layman's terms, that there were eight versions of the Matrix. The first was paradise, as we know from Smith in the first movie. It was rejected. The second was a dystopia, this was also rejected. Finally the architect created the matrix as we know it today. Morpheus, as well as the rest of Zion, believes that the humans have been fighting the machines for about a century. It is actually much much longer than that. There have been six versions of the modern matrix. Each version has had it's own "One." The One and the prophesy are actually programs created to keep the humans in line. They allow the ones who truly question society to be weeded out and hearded into Zion, which the machines created themselves. Although the minds have been freed, the people are trapped. The machines know where they are and how to defeat them. The One for that version of the matrix is told to choose several humans to survive so that Zion may be rebuilt and ready to recieve more rejects. This explains why Neo wasn't just destroyed by the machines in the last movie when he awoke.
Basically, the prophesy is bogus. It was created by the machines to help get rid of the people who would corrupt the others in the Matrix. It is this that leads me to belive the real world is the actually real world. If it were a second Matrix, why would the machines continually destroy the city of Zion? They could let the humans keep believing that they are free when really they still act as batteries. Computers and machines do exactly what is necessary in a very precise manner, they don't just go around destroying everything in sight, they destroy what is necessary and nothing else. It would be unnecessary to destroy humans that contribute to their overall goal. I think they are in the real world, which may or may not be a good thing for them.
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Old 05-25-2003, 10:03 AM   #33
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How do explain Neo stopping those machines and knowing that he could?
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Old 05-25-2003, 10:31 AM   #34
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Thats the thing, is the "real world" the actual real world? Calvary has a pretty good summary there, heres the principle behind the propheised one:

Neo holds the code to reload the Matrix and Zion(I believe), and like was said, a selected amount of males and females are choosen by Neo to rebuild Zion and start the whole cycle again. You see, the machines are trying to spread the code that Neo has so that by the time they have rid the Matrix of this anomoly(Neo), then the architech can focas on building the Matrix without setbacks(again, from what I gather).

But heres whats interesting about Reloaded's ending, instead of taking the door on the right like the previous 5, this anomoly is motivated most profoundly by love, and hence, he takes the door on the left to save Trinity. The architech even knows this, yet why would he let Neo have the power in the first place to choose the door on the left which eliminates the power source for the machines?

Because when Neo takes the door on the left, this kills the whole human race, right? The machines batteries? I recall the architech said something about "other resources", yet he's willing to leave the fate of man kind to Neo?

Very interesting, can't wait for Revolutions...
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Old 05-25-2003, 02:05 PM   #35
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He said the machines would be able to resort to alternate sources. My question is, what sources are those?
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Old 05-25-2003, 10:53 PM   #36
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The long rant of my review short: The movie was enjoyable, although I failed to be impressed. If any of you have read Scott Kurtz's (of PvP fame) review, I agree with most of his points, although I did manage to enjoy the film for the most part. I found myself bored during the 100 Agent Smith fight. It got repetative, and I could tell they were using CG a lot, and it looked it. Also, I think a lot of the effects would have looked better had they used wires, like in the previous film, and there were a few instances where the slow-down effect seemed random (during the exchange of gunshots immediately prior to the highway comes to mind).

The easiest explanation of how Neo was able to sense and stop the Sentinels in the "real" world, is that he didn't go into the real world. Instead, when he went into the mainframe of the Matrix, he entered a subroutine designed to mimic the world they new, only with the illusion of Zion being destroyed. As he's still in the Matrix, he can sense the Sentinels and control them.
Another explanation would be that the Matrix is a prison, in a more conventional sense than we are lead to believe. IE that for whatever reason these people were placed in a virtual world to keep them passive. However, the creators of this prison realized people could figure this out, so they designed a second layer to the illusion: that while World A is an illusion, the real world is one where they are beset by machines, who have created this illusionary world. The people who see through this illusion will feel that they've been able to see through the illusion, but fail to see the miserable world is also an illusion. Mainly because the idea of a world modelled on something tolerable and with a decent amount of security could easily be seen as someone's attempt at an illusion, but why would someone imprison someone else in a dystopia? With a dystopia, they have the belief that they are fighting against something that's oppressing them, thus channelling thier rebellion into a safe outlet.
I thought of this hypothesis after I saw the Matrix back in 1999, which was basically remembering my reaction when I was studying Buddhism years ago: IE If this reality is an illusion, how do I know the reality Buddhism teaches is any more real (and by extension how do I know Nirvana is real)? Granted I grew up reading Philip K. Dick, so I'm might be somewhat inclined to trains of thought like that.
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Old 05-26-2003, 11:16 AM   #37
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It's possible that Neo is still in a Matrix at the end of the film and that he didn't know it. But why did stopping those Sentinels knock out Neo then? Neo didn't have any problems with using his powers in the Matrix before?

The first thing that I was thinking at that moment was that Neo now also had some of that power outside the Matrix (somehow) and that his mind wasn't ready to use it yet.

But question I want to get answered more than that is "Who's the guy lying next to Neo at the end of the film and what's his importance in all this?" The guy is probably a spy working for the architect... hmmmm... maybe the architect knows that this Neo might be the first Neo who will actually succeed in liberating all humans. And then this guy has the job to stop Neo in the conventional way, in the place where Neo is just an other human being, vulnerable like any other.

Anyway, good thread!
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Old 05-26-2003, 11:56 AM   #38
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Isn't "that guy" agent Smith? (He copied himself early into the film and transfered out of the matrix.)
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Old 05-26-2003, 12:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gilles V
It's possible that Neo is still in a Matrix at the end of the film and that he didn't know it. But why did stopping those Sentinels knock out Neo then? Neo didn't have any problems with using his powers in the Matrix before?
I think it's a matter of believing in oneself. In the first movie, when he's training with Morpheus, Neo gets out of breath, and Morpheus tells him that's in his mind. It could be a similar scenario here. Or this sub-Matrix works somewhat differently from the Matrix Neo is used to being able to control.
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Old 05-27-2003, 04:17 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by thegreatimposter
Isn't "that guy" agent Smith? (He copied himself early into the film and transfered out of the matrix.)

Yeah, I remember that scene now. I guess I will have to watch Matrix Reloaded a second time.
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Old 05-27-2003, 08:29 AM   #41
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yeah, he was Smith, which is why it stinks that the film ended right there!
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Old 05-27-2003, 11:38 AM   #42
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The film looked exciting (but wasn't) with lots of cool action scenes but nothing "WOW".
The story is intriguing but you get the feeling that it's also forced. Not good.
The first Matrix had a much better story and the action scenes there had a real purpose.

The "Lord of the Rings" trilogy is much more exciting and better in every way. Lot's of "WOW" scenes in Fellowship and Two Towers. In my opinion!

Please forgive me for saying this.
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Old 05-27-2003, 06:21 PM   #43
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Lord of the Rings? Hmmm, I just got a idea.

Concerning the Question

I was confused too, however, I believe he was knocked out because it was a new program, hence, even Bane(Smith) was put into a coma despite his power in the Matrix. Thats why, its supposed to be assumed the 'real world' is another program set up by the machines.(so technically, its not the Matrix, so Neo wasn't used to this 'real world'program, perhaps the side effects of using his 'power' causes comas).

Also agreed, this ending was very adrupt. I wasn't antipating this then all of a sudden, to be concluded! Wow, throw me a frickin bone(Dr.Evil), I want more.

I think I just became a Matrix junkie.

[Edited by swords on 05-27-2003 at 08:13 pm]
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:46 PM   #44
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"Whoa! We stole our idea!" The "W" Bros.

Has anyone else noticed that the premise remarkably follow a darker more stylistic film called

Dark City?
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Old 10-24-2003, 08:09 PM   #45
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something screwed up here, it kept rejecting my post, so the post that this was supposed to be is now the next comment on this thread

[Edited by intergamer on 10-24-2003 at 07:17 pm]
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Old 10-24-2003, 08:17 PM   #46
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it won't let me post my whole thing

Quote:
Originally posted by swords
Lord of the Rings? Hmmm, I just got a idea.

Concerning the Question

I was confused too, however, I believe he was knocked out because it was a new program, hence, even Bane(Smith) was put into a coma despite his power in the Matrix. Thats why, its supposed to be assumed the 'real world' is another program set up by the machines.(so technically, its not the Matrix, so Neo wasn't used to this 'real world'program, perhaps the side effects of using his 'power' causes comas).

Also agreed, this ending was very adrupt. I wasn't antipating this then all of a sudden, to be concluded! Wow, throw me a frickin bone(Dr.Evil), I want more.

I think I just became a Matrix junkie.

[Edited by swords on 05-27-2003 at 08:13 pm]

I've been saying this all along. See, Smith could not have gotten into Zion if it was a real world, since Smith is still a program. Indeed, the idea of anybody going through a phone line into the real world from a program seems a little suspect. So Zion really is a program too.
Also, remember when they got knocked out at the end? That was from one of those electromagnetic pulse things (smith set it off when everyone was supposed to wait). Hmm, everybody died from it, except for the machines (metallic things) that got knocked out or immobolized. AND except for Agent Smith in the body of the other guy, and Neo...hmm, see so they are both machines or programs or something.

Also, remember the architect? He showed all those pictures on the wall. I'm assuming that those are supposed to be previous Neos (from earlier matrices/matrixes). Well, if Neo in the matrix is modeled after a real human being (the one on Zion), and the one in Zion is not just another program too (since Zion is really a program), then why do they all look the same? You don't get two real world people that look identical.

Also, look at the Revolutions trailers - Neo and others are doing some pretty fancy stunts, as far as I can see, in Zion. Which doesn't make sense unless Zion is a program.

Now the idea thats explicitly stated is, Agent Smith and Neo exchanged some properties from each other. How is this possible? genetic crossover? I think not. They are both programs, exchanging code. And they retain these crossovers in Zion - so Zion should be a program. The fact that they exist at all in Zion shows that Zion is a program.

Now, the outermost matrix (the one we begin the first movie in) is definitely all code. So Neo was GIVEN his powers to be the one, by the architect and such. Assuming that we can trust what the architect is saying (and I think that the Wachowski brothers mean us to be able to trust him), everything Neo does in the outermost matrix is controlled. Well then, why would they let him free all these people? Someone must know that Zion is fake. Also, Agent Smith is in the "real world"/Zion. I say we can just ignore the program matrix, therefore, especially since all these people have already been "freed". So the question to me is, look at Zion. All this robot crawlers everywhere. If Zion is a program-type-deal too, then where do they come from?

Sorry for the loose stream of consciousness.

Maybe Neo wakes up in his bed (of the beginning of the original movie) and its all a dream. Or the whole thing is some kid playing a computer game of which the plot is movie 1 and 2, and at the end of the movie they get called to dinner, so we don't know what happens (unless we buy the Matrix:trilogy computer game and play through to the end). It'd be good merchandising.

OH, and the question of controlling the robot sentinel things. Of course, this kind of makes sense, if Zion is all a program (or some subroutine like another poster said), and fits with Neo being a program. But I say that he didn't sense them at all. He saw something different, maybe saw that the guy Agent Smith was posing as looked different, or that he himself was a little different since he had some Smith-ness in him if they exchanged. So he paused. He only got knocked out because of the blast that Smith fired that he shouldn't have fired.

Another thought. Take Smith. In Matrix 1 he wishes he were somewhere else, not on our "despicable planet". Hmm. But clearly Smith is a program. So already in the first movie, he knows he can go to the "real world" and so forth. Again, Smith is not a robot, not a human being, but a program (the Matrix people have said this explicitly). At what the members of Zion see as the "real world" still is not the "real world".
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:08 PM   #47
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*bump

No one wanted to comment on the "Dark City" reference. Do we ever learn which world Neo is in?
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Old 11-30-2003, 08:14 PM   #48
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Re:

Quote:
Originally posted by apalehorse
Has anyone else noticed that the premise remarkably follow a darker more stylistic film called

Dark City?

That movie creeped me out. The Matrix just mildly entertained me.
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Old 11-30-2003, 08:26 PM   #49
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Matrix is a complete rip off of it.
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Old 12-01-2003, 02:05 AM   #50
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http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/...solutions.html

Just read this. It's all explained.
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