Stoo
Well-known member
Read 'em all and in order!
This thread will give you some more opinions:
Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates
This thread will give you some more opinions:
Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates
Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates
- Thread starter Johnny Nys
- Start date
Jeremiah Jones
Member
Righto I'm reviewing all the Indiana Jones books as I read them,I posted my reviews for rob mcgregors books over on another thread http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=5858&page=2 so now I'm onto
Indiana Jones and the sky Pirates
Right. Quite a reputation this book has. Quite. a. reputation. And within minutes of picking up the book I could see why. Now I flew through the Mcgregor books, reading each one in a day, but sky pirates took me 4, which is a new record for Indiana Jones novels, it was just so difficult to push myself to the end, its just so.. not boring, well it is a bit, but so irrelevent.
Okay heres what I understand of the plot. Theres an evil organisation called.. EVIL standing for Enterprise Ventures International Limited. Which is in itself pretty stupid. Now they want to take over the world, by pretending that they're aliens. So they build a big superzepplin, and some flying saucers, powered by rockets, and start stealing stuff and blowing other stuff up. Fair enough. So Indiana Jones is called in to lead an international team, and seemingly every government in the world to find these guys and shut them down. Now I can understand this in concept, but what? Indiana Jones? hes a professor of archaeology for heavens sake, why? WHY? would he be able to give US army officers orders?! It makes no sense. Why is he the main figure in clandestine secret meetings with world leaders. Why?
Anyway, Indy decides to do alot of stuff. Lets see if I can remember what, as this is an excersise in making sense of the novel as much as it is a review. First he recruits a team of guys, all amazingly skilled and educated to a ridiculous degree, including a woman who hunts with a bow and arrow in the 'new forest' what she hunts in Pastoral England is anyones guess. Apart from Gale, the woman, we have no idea how Indy comes across the rest of his team. First he makes a professor in London beleive in these fake artefacts planted with the diamonds stolen by EVIL, then he goes to Chicago where he convinces Jack Shannon (who is no longer living in san francisco, and has somehow managed to get back with the mob, though the fact that his situation totally changed (marraige, new life) in genisis Deluge isn't mentioned), to use his men to rob a train. Indy and his team fly over in their ford trimotor (for this book is an ad for the ford trimotor) and grab the package. They then go to an airbase, where they go to a secret meeting in an underground situation room, after which Indy goes to a restaurant to flush out some guy.. apparantly. Indy, obsessed with learning to fly, gets some lessons that don't go very far, then takes to team to new york where they go to another secret meeting, one of his members is killed by an animotronic kodiac bear, after which they hook up with another new jamaican guy, fly to england (over about 20 pages) gets a passanger ferry blown up by pretending that he was on it (though the jamaican guy is and gets killed) Here we learn that the EVIL guys are on the run, with their sea base destroyed off screen, and another character we met before has in fact infiltrated their organisation, so its another 20 page trip back across the atlantic where they hook up with an Indian Guy, and blow up the zepplin. THE END.
Now if that makes sense to you. Well done. You can probably stop reading. Its just, so much about this novel doesn't make any sense. First of all theirs Indy's Character, gone is the man who gets things wrong, who gets in over his head and makes it up as he goes along, this Indy is a superhero, with a Holmes like intellect, and a secret plan that he won't tell anybody.. for no real reason. His actions throughout the novel at many times seem to be leading somewhere, but they're not. I mean, take the train robbery he perpetrates, I thought as I read this, ' oh I see,they're gonna try to get intentionally hijacked by the saucers' Nope, theres no real reason Indy does this, none I can see. Then later on, in the most out of character act, Indy allows a passenger ship to be blown up, killing hundreds of innocents, just to make the enemy beleive hes dead. They try to write it off by saying, 'they'd have done it anyway' but thats simply poppycock. And what does Indy do with this new anomymity? Nothing. He just flies back and ends the story. This is not Indiana Jones, this is some sort of evil palpatine like character. Plus, Indiana Jones cannot fly, and I wish he'd stop learning how.
Then theres the other characters, long long sections are dedicated to 'fleshing them out' but then they're not really used, Gale does next to nothing, and the two pilots exist seemingly only to make the reader realise you're pretty useless if you don't obsess about planes. As for the characters who die, only Frenchies death makes any sense, Tarkiz, the huge Turkish bodygaurd, is killed by an animatronic Kodiac bear, in a museum display!! This is ridiculous in so many levels, not least of which is THEY DID NOT HAVE ROBOTIC BEARS IN 1930!!! Hes immediatly replaced by the Jamacain guy, who, like everyone, is just amazing, speaks several languages, does akido, has loads of degrees, yada yada yada, but ten pages later hes killed off screen when Indy makes everyone believe hes dead.
The last half of the book is taken up by two flights, one to England, and one back again, pages and pages of flight description, wind velocities, torque. Fair enough, but we find once they get to England, all this flying about has hidden the actual plot, as we are told that the EVIL organisation is now on the run, by stuff that happened off screen.
Its just so frustrating, and then they just shoot the zepplin down, and it simply ends.
One last thing.. before I end this rather long rant. It didn't feel like 1930, all these governments meeting up in secret underground conference rooms, long distance bomb detonating hand held devices, killer robot kodiac bears, the fact that flying across the atlantic in a plane somehow makes Indy and his crew very visible. Also, somewhat unrelated, Indy carries a camera around his neck for the whole story, occasionally taking clandestine pictures, though seriously, it you were in a top secret meeting and there was some scruffy guy with a camera around his neck, wouldn't you say, hey, this meetings TOP SECRET no cameras. But anyway, he teaches his friends how to use it at one point in a long boring sequence, but the photos Indy takes turn out to have no relevence on the plot. Like a lot of things..
Oh and contunuity with the other novels suck, and the prose is clunky as hell. So yeah. Sky Pirates.
Indiana Jones and the sky Pirates
Right. Quite a reputation this book has. Quite. a. reputation. And within minutes of picking up the book I could see why. Now I flew through the Mcgregor books, reading each one in a day, but sky pirates took me 4, which is a new record for Indiana Jones novels, it was just so difficult to push myself to the end, its just so.. not boring, well it is a bit, but so irrelevent.
Okay heres what I understand of the plot. Theres an evil organisation called.. EVIL standing for Enterprise Ventures International Limited. Which is in itself pretty stupid. Now they want to take over the world, by pretending that they're aliens. So they build a big superzepplin, and some flying saucers, powered by rockets, and start stealing stuff and blowing other stuff up. Fair enough. So Indiana Jones is called in to lead an international team, and seemingly every government in the world to find these guys and shut them down. Now I can understand this in concept, but what? Indiana Jones? hes a professor of archaeology for heavens sake, why? WHY? would he be able to give US army officers orders?! It makes no sense. Why is he the main figure in clandestine secret meetings with world leaders. Why?
Anyway, Indy decides to do alot of stuff. Lets see if I can remember what, as this is an excersise in making sense of the novel as much as it is a review. First he recruits a team of guys, all amazingly skilled and educated to a ridiculous degree, including a woman who hunts with a bow and arrow in the 'new forest' what she hunts in Pastoral England is anyones guess. Apart from Gale, the woman, we have no idea how Indy comes across the rest of his team. First he makes a professor in London beleive in these fake artefacts planted with the diamonds stolen by EVIL, then he goes to Chicago where he convinces Jack Shannon (who is no longer living in san francisco, and has somehow managed to get back with the mob, though the fact that his situation totally changed (marraige, new life) in genisis Deluge isn't mentioned), to use his men to rob a train. Indy and his team fly over in their ford trimotor (for this book is an ad for the ford trimotor) and grab the package. They then go to an airbase, where they go to a secret meeting in an underground situation room, after which Indy goes to a restaurant to flush out some guy.. apparantly. Indy, obsessed with learning to fly, gets some lessons that don't go very far, then takes to team to new york where they go to another secret meeting, one of his members is killed by an animotronic kodiac bear, after which they hook up with another new jamaican guy, fly to england (over about 20 pages) gets a passanger ferry blown up by pretending that he was on it (though the jamaican guy is and gets killed) Here we learn that the EVIL guys are on the run, with their sea base destroyed off screen, and another character we met before has in fact infiltrated their organisation, so its another 20 page trip back across the atlantic where they hook up with an Indian Guy, and blow up the zepplin. THE END.
Now if that makes sense to you. Well done. You can probably stop reading. Its just, so much about this novel doesn't make any sense. First of all theirs Indy's Character, gone is the man who gets things wrong, who gets in over his head and makes it up as he goes along, this Indy is a superhero, with a Holmes like intellect, and a secret plan that he won't tell anybody.. for no real reason. His actions throughout the novel at many times seem to be leading somewhere, but they're not. I mean, take the train robbery he perpetrates, I thought as I read this, ' oh I see,they're gonna try to get intentionally hijacked by the saucers' Nope, theres no real reason Indy does this, none I can see. Then later on, in the most out of character act, Indy allows a passenger ship to be blown up, killing hundreds of innocents, just to make the enemy beleive hes dead. They try to write it off by saying, 'they'd have done it anyway' but thats simply poppycock. And what does Indy do with this new anomymity? Nothing. He just flies back and ends the story. This is not Indiana Jones, this is some sort of evil palpatine like character. Plus, Indiana Jones cannot fly, and I wish he'd stop learning how.
Then theres the other characters, long long sections are dedicated to 'fleshing them out' but then they're not really used, Gale does next to nothing, and the two pilots exist seemingly only to make the reader realise you're pretty useless if you don't obsess about planes. As for the characters who die, only Frenchies death makes any sense, Tarkiz, the huge Turkish bodygaurd, is killed by an animatronic Kodiac bear, in a museum display!! This is ridiculous in so many levels, not least of which is THEY DID NOT HAVE ROBOTIC BEARS IN 1930!!! Hes immediatly replaced by the Jamacain guy, who, like everyone, is just amazing, speaks several languages, does akido, has loads of degrees, yada yada yada, but ten pages later hes killed off screen when Indy makes everyone believe hes dead.
The last half of the book is taken up by two flights, one to England, and one back again, pages and pages of flight description, wind velocities, torque. Fair enough, but we find once they get to England, all this flying about has hidden the actual plot, as we are told that the EVIL organisation is now on the run, by stuff that happened off screen.
Its just so frustrating, and then they just shoot the zepplin down, and it simply ends.
One last thing.. before I end this rather long rant. It didn't feel like 1930, all these governments meeting up in secret underground conference rooms, long distance bomb detonating hand held devices, killer robot kodiac bears, the fact that flying across the atlantic in a plane somehow makes Indy and his crew very visible. Also, somewhat unrelated, Indy carries a camera around his neck for the whole story, occasionally taking clandestine pictures, though seriously, it you were in a top secret meeting and there was some scruffy guy with a camera around his neck, wouldn't you say, hey, this meetings TOP SECRET no cameras. But anyway, he teaches his friends how to use it at one point in a long boring sequence, but the photos Indy takes turn out to have no relevence on the plot. Like a lot of things..
Oh and contunuity with the other novels suck, and the prose is clunky as hell. So yeah. Sky Pirates.
Lao_Che said:
That may be...I look forward to your review of that one, Jeremiah. I found it significantly more engaging than its predecessor (which, I must confess, too had its charms in how bizarre it was).
Jeremiah Jones
Member
Yeah perhaps my review was a bit too negative, there are some good bits, I mean... Cromwells an okay character. And it did make me laugh alot, usually when something ridiculously obvious was revealed at the end of a chapter in true melodramatic fashion, or indy saying 'why' at a conference, and it being described as a word that cut everyone to silence, by the sheer shock of its timing. Classic
And yeah, I've started White Which, and how Indy and Gale met is indeed totally different, apart from the hunting of boar bit. Plus Indy apparantly always carries a leather sheet and a bottle of wine with him when hunting. Which is, you know, an interesting choice
And yeah, I've started White Which, and how Indy and Gale met is indeed totally different, apart from the hunting of boar bit. Plus Indy apparantly always carries a leather sheet and a bottle of wine with him when hunting. Which is, you know, an interesting choice
WeAreGoingToDie
New member
I've been reading through the novels over the past few months and have just started Sky Pirates. I've found the novel very hard to get into. Overly descriptive, overly technical and Indy just isn't Indy. I really miss Rob McGregor's continuity. The first six novels felt like one massive story, while Sky Pirates feels like somebody elbowed the series in the ribs and said "Listen up! CIA agents and UFOs!"
Jeremiah Jones
Member
Yeah, I think its difficult because so little actually happens, they just talk and talk and talk the smallest details to death, and act amazed at any little inconsequential nugget they guess at... The sooner I'm finished White Witch the better. I'm over a hundred pages in, and all hes done is go flying (of course) help out in the Wicca village, go to london, and go back again... would they just SHUT UP and get on with it
But yeah WeAreGoingToDie, it looks like you're just behind me, interested to read your thoughts when you're done, til then I'll race you to the promised dawn of Mac Mccoy
But yeah WeAreGoingToDie, it looks like you're just behind me, interested to read your thoughts when you're done, til then I'll race you to the promised dawn of Mac Mccoy
Jeremiah Jones
Member
I know this is a Sky Pirates thread, but I want to keep my Caidin Reviews together, so here it is
Indiana Jones and the White Witch
I have to say, having read Sky Pirates, I was very reluctant to start into this second and last of Caidin's Indiana Jones stories. However, I am very glad to report that it is far far better then Sky Pirates, on a whole host of levels. Its seems on a lot of instances that hes responding to criticisms doled out on Sky Pirates..
Probably the most vital improvement is one of plot, as I've written above, the plot of Sky Pirates was long, complex and almost completely nonsensical, with various events and threads of story occuring for no real reason, here that is reduced greatly thanks mainly to a rather simple storyline, which is basically, Village is attacked, Indy Gale and Caitlin follow the murderers trail to some hidden gold, via zeppelin, and defeat them. Also, alot of the needless conversations present in sky pirates, the conversations and meetings that occupied every chapter eliciting sighs and groans of remorse and exasperation, are pretty much gone. Also, Caidin's fascination with aircraft is tempered greatly, even where planes are involved he manages not to rant for pages, indeed, his knowledge really adds to the centrepiece of the novel, that great zeppelin sequence, which I found really interesting, and the fight on top of its frozen hull was also well managed and exciting, thats right, stuff actually happens in this novel, again a massive improvement over Sky Pirates
It isn't all good though, continuity is still very spotty, with his meeting with Gale very different from the meeting detailed in the last novel, also a unicorn is seen at one point, and there is no mention of Unicorn's legacy, same with the various references to Stonehenge, one gets the impression that Caidin knew there was an Indy novel set at Stonehenge, but he didn't know what happened in it. Also the first hundred pages or so are painful, and had me assuming the worst, slow moving, heavy conversations, basically, in the space of a century of page Indy and Gale see the village burn, got there, then drive back to London, also their conversation in the car drive to and from the village is about magic, this conversation allows Indy to accept magic for the rest of the novel. Lets just say it didn't do the same for me. Magic is apparantly electrical energy, the magic sword has a battery in it for heavens sake, as does the magic staff, this made no sense to me, did Merlin invent duracell then? Is that what we're saying here? Battery operated magic? This and the explanation that 'you can't see magnatism or cosmic rays' somehow makes Indy believe in Magic. I wasn't convinced. Though I may have just killed some fairies.
Possibly the most ridiculous conversation in the novel occurs directly after this, as after driving back to London, getting attacked by crazy sucidal thug (why?) they amazing drive right back to the village, while lost in the wood Indy takes the time to stop the car, gets the inspector to take out some paper and some glue that hes conveniently got with him, and make a morbius strip... So to explain why they're lost... Riiiiiight...
Also, I just don't beleive all this stuff about the New Forest, its just a National Park in Southern England for heavens sake... Also, the villain, Cordas, seemingly the same fellow from Sky Pirates, however this is never really made explicit, and if it is, his dealings here are far far more low scale then what hes been involved in before, its like a Blofeld plot to steal the contents of couple of cash registers. However once the adventure gets going, it gets quite interesting, though protracted at times, but not to the same extent as Sky Pirates. So yeah, much better then Sky Pirates.
Indiana Jones and the White Witch
I have to say, having read Sky Pirates, I was very reluctant to start into this second and last of Caidin's Indiana Jones stories. However, I am very glad to report that it is far far better then Sky Pirates, on a whole host of levels. Its seems on a lot of instances that hes responding to criticisms doled out on Sky Pirates..
Probably the most vital improvement is one of plot, as I've written above, the plot of Sky Pirates was long, complex and almost completely nonsensical, with various events and threads of story occuring for no real reason, here that is reduced greatly thanks mainly to a rather simple storyline, which is basically, Village is attacked, Indy Gale and Caitlin follow the murderers trail to some hidden gold, via zeppelin, and defeat them. Also, alot of the needless conversations present in sky pirates, the conversations and meetings that occupied every chapter eliciting sighs and groans of remorse and exasperation, are pretty much gone. Also, Caidin's fascination with aircraft is tempered greatly, even where planes are involved he manages not to rant for pages, indeed, his knowledge really adds to the centrepiece of the novel, that great zeppelin sequence, which I found really interesting, and the fight on top of its frozen hull was also well managed and exciting, thats right, stuff actually happens in this novel, again a massive improvement over Sky Pirates
It isn't all good though, continuity is still very spotty, with his meeting with Gale very different from the meeting detailed in the last novel, also a unicorn is seen at one point, and there is no mention of Unicorn's legacy, same with the various references to Stonehenge, one gets the impression that Caidin knew there was an Indy novel set at Stonehenge, but he didn't know what happened in it. Also the first hundred pages or so are painful, and had me assuming the worst, slow moving, heavy conversations, basically, in the space of a century of page Indy and Gale see the village burn, got there, then drive back to London, also their conversation in the car drive to and from the village is about magic, this conversation allows Indy to accept magic for the rest of the novel. Lets just say it didn't do the same for me. Magic is apparantly electrical energy, the magic sword has a battery in it for heavens sake, as does the magic staff, this made no sense to me, did Merlin invent duracell then? Is that what we're saying here? Battery operated magic? This and the explanation that 'you can't see magnatism or cosmic rays' somehow makes Indy believe in Magic. I wasn't convinced. Though I may have just killed some fairies.
Possibly the most ridiculous conversation in the novel occurs directly after this, as after driving back to London, getting attacked by crazy sucidal thug (why?) they amazing drive right back to the village, while lost in the wood Indy takes the time to stop the car, gets the inspector to take out some paper and some glue that hes conveniently got with him, and make a morbius strip... So to explain why they're lost... Riiiiiight...
Also, I just don't beleive all this stuff about the New Forest, its just a National Park in Southern England for heavens sake... Also, the villain, Cordas, seemingly the same fellow from Sky Pirates, however this is never really made explicit, and if it is, his dealings here are far far more low scale then what hes been involved in before, its like a Blofeld plot to steal the contents of couple of cash registers. However once the adventure gets going, it gets quite interesting, though protracted at times, but not to the same extent as Sky Pirates. So yeah, much better then Sky Pirates.
WeAreGoingToDie
New member
Well Jeremiah Jones! Looks like you may beat me to the promised lad of McCoy. Since my post I haven't touched Sky Pirates. I've been watching "Young Indy: The War Years" on my iPod. But tonight I'm planning to continue trudging through it. Your review of The White Witch is comforting, at least it won't be TOO bad.
I'm looking forward to Belloq and the Crystal Skulls to come. Also, the Dinosaur Eggs sounds like an intriguing story. (I once wanted to be a paleontologist, and this was pre-Jurassic Park)
I'm looking forward to Belloq and the Crystal Skulls to come. Also, the Dinosaur Eggs sounds like an intriguing story. (I once wanted to be a paleontologist, and this was pre-Jurassic Park)
Goonie
New member
I finshished reading the 2nd of the Caidin books yesterday (White Witch). Before reading White Witch I read Sky Pirates. Would've been better if the main character's name was Sky Captain . It was ok, but not your typical Indy adventure. Now I'm moving on to the Max McCoy novels.
. It was ok, but not your typical Indy adventure. Now I'm moving on to the Max McCoy novels.
Morning Bell
New member
Nice reviews Jeremiah!
I agree that Caiden's books were a bit of chore to get through and really lacked the action and excitement that many of the other books had. Sky Pirates is my least-favorite Indy novel and The White Witch, while a slight improvement, was still pretty dull. Caiden was a more than capable author but he just wasn't right for Indy and all of the technical descriptions made me feel like I was reading Tom Clancy instead of Indiana Jones.
Thank goodness that McCoy came in. I'm re-reading Philosopher's Stone at the moment and I'm just blown away by good it is; in fact, it may just be my favorite of the series. Caiden is difficult to get through but knowing that you have four wonderful McCoy novels makes it easier.
I agree that Caiden's books were a bit of chore to get through and really lacked the action and excitement that many of the other books had. Sky Pirates is my least-favorite Indy novel and The White Witch, while a slight improvement, was still pretty dull. Caiden was a more than capable author but he just wasn't right for Indy and all of the technical descriptions made me feel like I was reading Tom Clancy instead of Indiana Jones.
Thank goodness that McCoy came in. I'm re-reading Philosopher's Stone at the moment and I'm just blown away by good it is; in fact, it may just be my favorite of the series. Caiden is difficult to get through but knowing that you have four wonderful McCoy novels makes it easier.
DoomTown
Member
Well now...Been awhile since this thread has seen some life, eh?
I remember reading this book when it first came out ('93 I think?) and thinking how different it was in comparison to the earlier MacGregor novels...I have to say, while the MacGregor novels were good, to me, Max McCoy's novels were superior, and Caidin's contributions to the series have always been considered the "black sheep" of the Indy novel EU adventures. In fact, I don't even think I ever finished "White Witch".
I remember liking elements of "Sky Pirates" (It has been 17 years since I read the book), I LOVE Struzans cover (My favorite of the series), a few of the reasons I ordered it once again (Most of my Indy collection is in storage back in the States...) from Amazon.
Lets see if this story has ripened with age...
I remember reading this book when it first came out ('93 I think?) and thinking how different it was in comparison to the earlier MacGregor novels...I have to say, while the MacGregor novels were good, to me, Max McCoy's novels were superior, and Caidin's contributions to the series have always been considered the "black sheep" of the Indy novel EU adventures. In fact, I don't even think I ever finished "White Witch".
I remember liking elements of "Sky Pirates" (It has been 17 years since I read the book), I LOVE Struzans cover (My favorite of the series), a few of the reasons I ordered it once again (Most of my Indy collection is in storage back in the States...) from Amazon.
Lets see if this story has ripened with age...
doctorfargo
New member
Sky Pirates is awful... period.
When I first saw the title I was thinking about some dare-devil Disney's TaleSpin like sky pirates looking for or stealing artifacts around the globe. And Indy gets caught up with them. But the sky pirates turn out to be a bunch of quacks pretending to be aliens in order to prevent future wars... Huh?
And where is the archeological connection? There is none! The least they could have done is to the secret organization gaining their 'UFO" technology by stealing some ancient secrets of flight or something.
When I first saw the title I was thinking about some dare-devil Disney's TaleSpin like sky pirates looking for or stealing artifacts around the globe. And Indy gets caught up with them. But the sky pirates turn out to be a bunch of quacks pretending to be aliens in order to prevent future wars... Huh?
And where is the archeological connection? There is none! The least they could have done is to the secret organization gaining their 'UFO" technology by stealing some ancient secrets of flight or something.