Marion was only 15 when she had affair with Indy?!

Indy's Fist

New member
I've been reading the novelisation of "Raiders" and it says that Marion was 15 when she and Indy first made love! I know she said she was a kid, but I thought that was just her way of saying she was young and naive. I would have figured she was about 18 or 19, but 15!? Indy would have been in his mid-20's! No wonder Abner was pissed at Indy, hell he should have had Indy brought up on charges and thrown in jail!
 

cdmeredith

New member
I personally feel this is being blown WAY out of proportion. Around the web, this has to be the number one thing people are taking away when they read the transcript.

First of all, George Lucas was being facetious when he suggested her age at around 11. He immediately said so. These were people involved in creative brainstorming. They were simply trying to set up the conflict between the characters by having some unresolved issues in their pasts. They weren't sitting around with calculators figuring out the difference in ages. They were trying to give these characters a torrid history. Spielberg seemed to jump at the suggestion because this would mean there would be fertile ground to mine for characterization. Because the age difference wasn't so severe, there was no need to treat is as seriously in the final story as perhaps it would have been if she had been 11. (like the film Hounddog) As it is, it wasn't approving or glorifying of the relationship, it was merely presenting it as fact, and showing the consequences, most of which seemed to be unpleasant. (Let's not forget, the novel also says she went on to be a prostitute, and it ruined Indy's relationship with a mentor.) It made those characters intriguing.

So, in conclusion.

Yes, Marion was 15-16 when she had sex with Indy. Many, many kids that age have sex. Check out the statistics. Get over it.

Can we now stop talking about it?

There were more interesting things in this transcript.
 
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James

Well-known member
I always thought this was pretty common knowledge, as it's one of the key insights we're given into the Indy-Marion relationship.

But technically, the bigger issue would've probably been Indy's failure to make an honest woman out of her. It wasn't that unusual for a 15-year-old to marry back then. My friend's grandmother was married at 14- to a man a decade older than her!
 

Indy's Fist

New member
cdmeredith said:
I personally feel this is being blown WAY out of proportion. Around the web, this has to be the number one thing people are taking away when they read the transcript.

First of all, George Lucas was being facetious when he suggested her age at around 11. He immediately said so. These were people involved in creative brainstorming. They were simply trying to set up the conflict between the characters by having some unresolved issues in their pasts. They weren't sitting around with calculators figuring out the difference in ages. They were trying to give these characters a torrid history. Spielberg seemed to jump at the suggestion because this would mean there would be fertile ground to mine for characterization. Because the age difference wasn't so severe, there was no need to treat is as seriously in the final story as perhaps it would have been if she had been 11. (like the film Hounddog) As it is, it wasn't approving or glorifying of the relationship, it was merely presenting it as fact, and showing the consequences, most of which seemed to be unpleasant. (Let's not forget, the novel also says she went on to be a prostitute, and it ruined Indy's relationship with a mentor.) It made those characters intriguing.

So, in conclusion.

Yes, Marion was 15-16 when she had sex with Indy. Many, many kids that age have sex. Check out the statistics. Get over it.

Can we now stop talking about it?

I realize many kids have sex at a young age. But just how many twenty-somthing men have sex with 15 year old girls? I guess in the 1920's & 30's it was okay.
Sorry if I got you upset, but I was just curious after reading this in the novelization. I did check the stats and I did get over it. So now I'll stop talking about it.
 

cdmeredith

New member
more than you would think. it happens daily, and has since the dawn of humanity, and will continue to until we are extinct. such is life. Not only in third world countries, but in your own hometown. it's as simple as a college student having a high school girlfriend, or dating his friend's sister. that's not to say I totally agree with it, but whether or not we agree with it will never stop it from happening. it's how humans are built.

also,

don't take it personally. I'm not upset at you. I'm just confused as to why this is the one thing most people seem to be getting out of the transcripts. It's not just here, it's all over the web. this is all anyone seems to be discussing. I also agree that I thought it was common knowledge since 1981. I suppose I just thought that people would find a lot more interesting things in those 126 pages.
 
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Indy's Fist

New member
cdmeredith said:
more than you would think. it happens daily, and has since the dawn of humanity.

also,

don't take it personally. I'm not upset at you. I'm just confused as to why this is the one thing most people seem to be getting out of the transcripts. It's not just here, it's all over the web. this is all anyone seems to be discussing. I also agree that I thought it was common knowledge since 1981. I suppose I just thought that people would find a lot more interesting things in those 126 pages.

I was just going by the novel, I've never seen the transcripts yet. I just always asumed Marion was a bit older that's all. I remeber when my dad would refer to baseball players as "kid" even though the play was 18,19 or whatever. Now that I'm 35 I know what he meant by "kid". I alway thought Marion meant she was a child in the same context.
 

cdmeredith

New member
well, check out the several other topics discussing it in this forum. it's a little disheartening.

to you though, no malice intended.

I know that personally, I am done talking about it as of now. I hope others will join me.
 

Indy's Fist

New member
cdmeredith said:
well, check out the several other topics discussing it in this forum. it's a little disheartening.

to you though, no malice intended.

I know that personally, I am done talking about it as of now. I hope others will join me.

Thanks for being so nice. I wasn't aware of the other discussions on the board. I really was just reading the novel, which I'm not to big on anyway. For once I think the film was better than the novelization.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe the 30-year-old script available at theRaider should be required reading before joining this message board:
MARION RAVENWOOD, twenty-five years old: "He didn’t have a penny. Guess how I lived, Mister Jones. I worked here. And I wasn’t the bartender. -- I’ve learned to hate you in the last ten years. -- I was a child! I was in love. It was wrong. You knew it."
Any questions? Confusuion? Illiteracy?
 

James

Well-known member
gear guardian said:
All this hostility over statutory rape?!

Well technically, it would've been dependent upon whatever locale Indy and Marion happened to be in. During the 1920s, 12-15 was still a fairly common age of consent in many countries.

However, this subject may very well explain the "misunderstanding" that occurred between Indy and the Sultan of Madagascar. :D
 

Gear

New member
James said:
Well technically, it would've been dependent upon whatever locale Indy and Marion happened to be in. During the 1920s, 12-15 was still a fairly common age of consent in many countries.


Depending on what state you're enjoying the weather in, "consent" is still okie dokie.

EDIT: That's state of province, not of mind, by the way...
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
Don't know how this is new at all. Wasn't she always 15/16 in their first affair?

Sure, I do admit Lucas' comments about her being 12 is kind of shocking, but ultimately didn't come to be (unless you believe the dates and desciptions in the Ultimate Guide, where it states that Indy and Marion first met in late 1920, in which case I'm willing to bet Marion just had a school girl crush on him at that particular time, no affairs or anything of that nature).
 

Darth Vile

New member
I know I've mentioned this in another thread, but the movie has always suggested that Indy/Marions relationship was a bit inappropriate... to paraphrase, ?I never meant to hurt you?, "It was wrong and you knew it". My reading (and I accept that this is only my interpretation) is that Indy sort of corrupted her i.e. he was the older man and she was the naïve girl.

I actually like that they brought that conflict into the relationship, as it explains the separation from Marion and the estrangement from Abner Ravenwood (albeit it in a throwaway manner).
 

Robyn

New member
Darth Vile said:
I know I've mentioned this in another thread, but the movie has always suggested that Indy/Marions relationship was a bit inappropriate... to paraphrase, “I never meant to hurt you”, "It was wrong and you knew it". My reading (and I accept that this is only my interpretation) is that Indy sort of corrupted her i.e. he was the older man and she was the naïve girl.

I actually like that they brought that conflict into the relationship, as it explains the separation from Marion and the estrangement from Abner Ravenwood (albeit it in a throwaway manner).

I always thought that too, and found it interesting, like I said the 15-17 year old Marion going out with a 20 somthing Indy backstory is interesting and actually makes it all the more sweet that they fell for each other then and still loved each other all the years later.. I've even written fanfic on teen Marion falling for 20 something Indy.. the only thing that was sick was the 11 year old Marion affair, which hopefully was only a joke
 

JerryKing

Member
By the way, to actually venture into dumb "what if this and that happened instead of the relevant part of the fictitious screenplay draft" speculations - Ravenwood would probably have no case at all if his daughter was, in fact, 15, as they were away on an excavation somewhere, and that is the age of consent in most countries.

Anyway, how about ending this thread; that exchange between L & S was fun to toss around for a while in the "conference" thread below, but does this sort of nonsense really require its own dedicated threads?
 
JerryKing said:
By the way, to actually venture into dumb "what if this and that happened instead of the relevant part of the fictitious screenplay draft" speculations - Ravenwood would probably have no case at all if his daughter was, in fact, 15, as they were away on an excavation somewhere, and that is the age of consent in most countries.

Anyway, how about ending this thread; that exchange between L & S was fun to toss around for a while in the "conference" thread below, but does this sort of nonsense really require its own dedicated threads?

Well, if the responses aren't enough, apparently there ARE people who this is new to.

What is your motivation to control a conversation you're not interested in? You found what was interesting to you, just move on.

Why don't you want someone else to engage in some sort of discourse to express themselves and discover some truth for themselves.

For someone like me, I hold the same point of view as the cinematic characters...it was wrong, regardless of law, region or decade.

What I do find interesting is how each of the posters approach the subject, some people believe in this day and age it's not a big deal, some people point out Jerry Lee Lewis, (she was also his cousin, no?).

It's not the most attractive aspect of the character, and the authors, but it has undeniably struck a chord...and I enjoy the unpredictable directions the conversation is taking us. Like it or not this is your HERO Indiana Jones.

It's an excellent way to reveal character...I appreciate your question and the answer is: YES unless you want it to gum up the developing conversation on the BIG BANG thread.

Great name...how prophetic!
 

Robyn

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Well, if the responses aren't enough, apparently there ARE people who this is new to.

What is your motivation to control a conversation you're not interested in? You found what was interesting to you, just move on.

Why don't you want someone else to engage in some sort of discourse to express themselves and discover some truth for themselves.

For someone like me, I hold the same point of view as the cinematic characters...it was wrong, regardless of law, region or decade.

What I do find interesting is how each of the posters approach the subject, some people believe in this day and age it's not a big deal, some people point out Jerry Lee Lewis, (she was also his cousin, no?).

It's not the most attractive aspect of the character, and the authors, but it has undeniably struck a chord...and I enjoy the unpredictable directions the conversation is taking us. Like it or not this is your HERO Indiana Jones.

It's an excellent way to reveal character...I appreciate your question and the answer is: YES unless you want it to gum up the developing conversation on the BIG BANG thread.

Great name...how prophetic!

Thanks for saying this Rocket! I couldn't have said it better myself.. I don't know why some people here think they need to tell people when and what to talk about...
 

James

Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
I actually like that they brought that conflict into the relationship, as it explains the separation from Marion and the estrangement from Abner Ravenwood (albeit it in a throwaway manner).

It always reminded me of something like The Searchers, in that we got a nice amount of backstory via throwaway lines or visuals. Today this would probably drive audiences crazy, with message board topics like, "Should we have seen Abner?" :D

It's interesting that Indy's later breakup with Marion also led to a falling out with a close friend.
 
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