Tweaking KOTCS to find its inner potential

Raiders90

Well-known member
Let's say it's 2007. You're handed the final draft of the script as is. It is my opinion that there is a great film in there somewhere. You have all these really intriguing pieces:

-Indy in a new era where he, himself, is a relic.
-You have the potential for a subplot where Indy has to prove his innocence and to toy with the very grey morality of the Cold War as opposed to the more black and white good and evil of the 1930s
-You have the alien angle, which could've been very profound if done right. The idea of the aliens as being archeologists and helpers of mankind rather than truly being Gods is fascinating. Maybe the aliens were scouring the universe searching for the same truths that people like Indy have and are.
-You have the KGB element which could've made it a bit of a thriller.
-You have Spalko as this really sexual and sexy femme fatale type who could read minds possibly. Maybe extrapolate that out to her being able to BEND weaker minds to her will - metaphor for female sexuality?
-You have the 50s which make for as interesting, if not moreso, a backdrop than the 1930s. A period so remote to our own and yet with one big foot in the modern age.

I just look at every scene in KOTCS and while the overall picture is a subpar schlocky mess, I see ingredients for potential greatness. The question is, if we're working with the final draft script, how do we turn it into gold?
 
Raiders112390 said:
-Indy in a new era where he, himself, is a relic.

I don't see how Indy would be a relic. He's an archaeology professor and vet to the public eye, not much more. If anything, I would change Jim Broadent's "Charles" character to a more critical counterpart who challenges Jones' technique and lack of proof and is a victim of government-induced paranoia. Then in the end, Indy's heroic efforts would mend this tension.

Not too late to make that happen in the 5th outing. We've already seen a supportive Brody. Time for a different dynamic.


Raiders112390 said:
-You have the potential for a subplot where Indy has to prove his innocence and to toy with the very grey morality of the Cold War as opposed to the more black and white good and evil of the 1930s

Wouldn't change much other than a debriefing where they think Jones is crazy after telling his story and having no proof. Or maybe they do believe him because of the Roswell incident and threaten him. At the end of the day, the Russians are gone and Indy is not so he did what they wanted him to do.

Here's a line the feds could say to Indy:
"You may dig up graves Dr. Jones but you always lead our enemies into them. For that, you're off the hook..."


Raiders112390 said:
-You have the alien angle, which could've been very profound if done right. The idea of the aliens as being archeologists and helpers of mankind rather than truly being Gods is fascinating. Maybe the aliens were scouring the universe searching for the same truths that people like Indy have and are.

I feel this was established enough. In Spalko's dialogue, she could mention that maybe they too were looking for who created them.

Raiders112390 said:
-You have the KGB element which could've made it a bit of a thriller.

This was strongly demonstrated in the opening and campus incident / chase scene. Some of the film's strongest moments. For the sake of this thread, maybe have one of them spying on Indy and Charles' conversations in the school.

Raiders112390 said:
-You have Spalko as this really sexual and sexy femme fatale type who could read minds possibly. Maybe extrapolate that out to her being able to BEND weaker minds to her will - metaphor for female sexuality?

Change her hair style and she can bend my mind any day. Yes, we needed to see this. I would bring back the scene in the script where Mac is asking about her abilities. Perhaps, she is controlling him - playing on his greed. Another angle that might work is she realized she doesn't have power and her spirit is broken. This makes her want the skull for herself so that she can. I thought this is what would happen when she couldn't read Indy's mind. Would have made a lot of since. Every bad guy ends up wanting the relic for themselves, not for their boss. She was a patriot for her country in this movie but at least that was something new so it didn't bother me.

Raiders112390 said:
-You have the 50s which make for as interesting, if not moreso, a backdrop than the 1930s. A period so remote to our own and yet with one big foot in the modern age.

I thought they handled this fine. Loved the opening play car chase to set this mood. I often hear people say they didn't see the point in the playful Elvis jamming introduction. It worked just right for me and I was born in the '80s.
 

British Raider

Well-known member
Remove Mutt swinging and the waterfalls. Add more traps at Akator for the group to overcome. Have something that challenges Indy and Mutt and shows progression for Mutt. That’s it. I like a lot of the movie as is.
 

ThrowMeTheWhip

Well-known member
It needs stakes. At the end Indy’s kind of surprised that Oxley has returned to normal. If they’d more clearly built up the need to return the skull to free Oxley rather than just “it told me to,” there could have been tension built around that goal.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
Maybe it might have been nice to add a third party, the CIA or whoever, who are chasing Indy because they suspect of him of colluding with the Russians- add a bit more danger into the mix. Then you could have the Russians potentially actually saving Indy from the Americans because they need his knowledge, thus confirming Indy's guilt even more in the CIA's minds.
Maybe, arguably there are too many characters in it to start with.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
British Raider just pointed out in the Mutt thread that Mutt's character doesn't really have an emotional climax at the end, in the way that Henry did in LC. I suggested that perhaps Indy should have been tempted by the secrets of the aliens but sees Mutt and realises he has a more important role to play as dad.
But surely also there's a father/son metaphor with the aliens which is missed by the film? They basically raised the human race and taught them valuable lessons and now suddenly they're back in their life after not even realising they existed before, much as Indy is with Mutt, so perhaps there should have been some sort of parallel going on there? Maybe as part of the final trial when they get to the temple Indy and Mutt are separated, forced to take different routes or something (maybe the CIA has one and the Russians the other) and Indy realises that the mentors had to let the young flourish on their own (perhaps the thing about him wanting Mutt to go back to school is treated a bit more seriously by the film and not a throwaway gag), meanwhile Mutt learns the value of learning from the elders and realises that his dad has a lot to teach him.

I dunno, doesn't work exactly, but the aliens/humans and Indy/Mutt thing seem a good potential echo to make a story from.
 

ThrowMeTheWhip

Well-known member
Maybe it might have been nice to add a third party, the CIA or whoever, who are chasing Indy because they suspect of him of colluding with the Russians- add a bit more danger into the mix. Then you could have the Russians potentially actually saving Indy from the Americans because they need his knowledge, thus confirming Indy's guilt even more in the CIA's minds.
Maybe, arguably there are too many characters in it to start with.
I made the same suggestion to a friend a few months back. I agree, imagine if they had rather than Mac in South America one of the CIA agents. He could help tie up the loose end with how he was exonerated at the end of the film.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
I made the same suggestion to a friend a few months back. I agree, imagine if they had rather than Mac in South America one of the CIA agents. He could help tie up the loose end with how he was exonerated at the end of the film.
That's nice, I like that. Maybe he could free Indy and Indy thinks he's safe, only for Mac to reveal he's CIA and Indy is in just as much trouble from them as he is the Russians.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
One thing about the aliens which could have been different from the other films' macguffins is that they actually could have been reasoned with as they come back to life. Maybe Indy and Mutt do something in their presence which makes the aliens change their minds and leave Earth alone: and Indy can note (after spending up until this point affirming how important it is Mutt goes to school and learns from him) that as the aliens appear to have realised something important "It seems like the kids have something to teach the old guys after all", giving Mutt a crooked smile of encouragement and understanding. Something in that kind of vein anyway.
 

British Raider

Well-known member
I don’t know if the aliens raised the human race exactly; we built pyramids to honour them, but they in turn were archaeologists? I guess Lucas was trying to avoid the racism that comes with ancient alien theories.

the third act definitely needed a bit more work. Perhaps expanding too much on the aliens would have been a little odd for an Indy film?
 

emtiem

Well-known member
I don’t know if the aliens raised the human race exactly; we built pyramids to honour them, but they in turn were archaeologists? I guess Lucas was trying to avoid the racism that comes with ancient alien theories.

Weren’t there hieroglyphs the characters look at showing the aliens taught the locals irrigation and various other techniques? It’s still a dramatic rhyme (as Lucas might say!) which they could have used.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
I was thinking today: the title is a bit clunky and maybe a syllable too long- how about Indiana Jones and the Call of the Crystal Skull? Does that work?
 

My_Pet_Snake-Reggie

Active member
I've found a very good video analysis, which I think sums up perfectly, what KotCS missed. I strongly recommend it. Here's mentioned everything you'd have to change to make it better.

Part I:


link:

Part II:


link:

And, yeah, I can see it's inner potential hidden within those missed opportunities. The movie could actually work with the same idea, just make a little re-write, cut out some scenes and add in some lose ends for characters' arcs and you've got a good Indiana Jones movie.
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
One thing that might have helped the movie in several ways would be if they'd eliminated Oxley.

Instead of Oxley being the guy who knows all about the skulls, why not just set it up so that Indy himself used to be fascinated by them when he was younger, and collected a lot of information about them? That does a few things:
(1) it reduces the number of characters,
(2) it makes Indy more central to the plot,
(3) it feels less like a retread of Last Crusade, since it doesn't involve Indy following someone else's clues, and
(4) it plays into the theme of getting older, with Indy feeling like he's losing things from his life, but then rediscovering something he was passionate about when he was younger, giving him a new sense of purpose.

Of course, by doing this, Oxley's disappearance couldn't be what sets the plot in motion, as it did in the actual film. But that's fine. Instead, make Marion the motivation. The audience actually knows and cares about Marion, unlike Oxley. Make it so the Russians kidnapped Marion as a way to lure Indy into finding the skull. Admittedly, it's not the most original incentive, but it would resonate more with the audience than Oxley did.
And yes, removing Oxley would require some other tweaks to the story, but nothing insurmountable, and the payoff would be worthwhile.

I'd also change the waterfall sequence. First of all, no need for three waterfalls. Just have the big one, but set it up in such a way that Indy can actually do something proactive about it, rather than just riding over the edge. Maybe put the boat a bit closer to the shore, and Indy whips a nearby tree branch to slow them down. It's very tense scene, but somehow, Indy manages to get everyone out of the boat... except for Marion. She goes over the falls. And in a scene that mirrors the tank scene from LC, Indy looks down the waterfall and fears he lost her forever. When she resurfaces in the water at the bottom of the falls a few minutes later, gasping for breath, he realizes that he never wants to risk losing her again, and that would set up the wedding scene at the end of the film.
 

Z dweller

Well-known member
I've found a very good video analysis, which I think sums up perfectly, what KotCS missed. I strongly recommend it.
Very good analysis, thanks for posting the links.

It's a weak movie, poorly written and with virtually no memorable moments.
Ford gives it his all, but sadly it's not enough to redeem it.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
Yes, I guess in odd way Oxley is a bit of a strange way to get Indy involved in the plot in the film, as it's a similar device that Last Crusade used (someone Indy knows has gone missing and he has to track them down) but this time it's with someone less important to him. I'm not saying Indy would be callous enough not to help, but when you think about it, there's actually not a huge amount to drive him to go to Peru. He doesn't know this kid, he doesn't know who his mum is, and he knew Oxley years ago. Really it needed something more like from City of the Gods (where I think he had to get out of the country and needed to get the artefact to clear his name- something like that, it's been a while since I read it) or, as you say, it's just Marion being held and he has to get her. The only issue there is that you have to find a way of explaining why Indy never suspects that Mutt is his son until he's in the middle of another continent, and that may be a little hard to swallow. I guess Mutt thinks Williams is his dad so that might just about work.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, I guess in odd way Oxley is a bit of a strange way to get Indy involved in the plot in the film, as it's a similar device that Last Crusade used (someone Indy knows has gone missing and he has to track them down) but this time it's with someone less important to him. I'm not saying Indy would be callous enough not to help, but when you think about it, there's actually not a huge amount to drive him to go to Peru.
The way it's being set up is because Indy really doesn't have anything better to do. When Mutt catches up with him, he's just lost his day job and is on his way to take a teaching gig in West Germany - because his own government is more or less driving him out of the country for being a suspected commie sympathizer. His life's going down the toilet, so Peru works just as well - it gives him a purpose. And, of course, as he decides to hear what Mutt has to say, he learns that the Soviets are involved in the case, so he might also see it as an opportunity to clear his name.
 
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