Why does Spielberg and Lucas warn that we will be DISSAPOINTED with Indy IV???

It's the same thing that political candidates do before debates - lower expectations. That way, our (likely) unreasonable expectations will be lowered before viewing the movie.
 

DoomsdayFAN

Member
Well, why did it take Lucas and Spielberg SOOOO long to come up with the script they wanted? Why did they keep throwing it back to the drawing board?
 

commontone

New member
DoomsdayFAN said:
Well, why did it take Lucas and Spielberg SOOOO long to come up with the script they wanted? Why did they keep throwing it back to the drawing board?

Spielberg and Ford wanted to do another film, but they weren't so hot on the McMuffin that Lucas mandated. That doesn't mean they thought the idea was inherently bad. There are reports they thought it was "too connected" to the past films.

Also, Ford recently commented that when he read the script that they eventually filmed, he thought it was smart and didn't try too hard to reference and connect to the other films.

So apparently, past scripts were kind of nostalgic throwbacks, is the impression I get. Everyone wanted the movie to be able to stand on its own, and David Koepp was vocal that that was his intention. He didn't want to reference the other films too much. He may have been the first screenwriter to really uphold that ideal.

I don't think it was a matter of Ford and Berg saying, "What? Crystal skulls (or whatever) are lame." There were probably more subtle issues at hand, more of a, "Yeah it's cool, but how can we make it work?" sort of thing.

Ironically, I think when Lucas put his foot down and said "it's this idea or nothing," he was probably trying to give the project momentum. By simply cutting off discussion of another idea, he probably thought they'd just say, Oh well, let's move to the next step. Obviously, it didn't quite happen that way.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
No Ticket said:
1.) It's too political.

That reminds me of something Lucas says on his ROTS DVD commentary. He says something along the lines of "Our society likes to avoid politics because they think it is too complicated. Because of that, they elect leaders who promise to clean things up for them. And these leaders in turn often take advantage of the general public's ignorance of politics."

Basically, the prequels were meant in a way to comment on how insane it is that people don't like to pay attention to politics.

No Ticket said:
2.) Nobody really wanted to see anything in the prequels up until ROTS. All anyone ever really wanted was to see Anakin fight Obi-wan and get fried. We all knew that was coming. We just wanted to see that.

Then most fans must have not been interested in a good story.

No Ticket said:
3.) There was no huge empire or struggle between good and evil.. no galactic war, etc.

It is a much more sophisticated than that. Palpatine is the puppet master of the "good" and "bad" sides of the Clone Wars. He plays each of them to get what he wants, and because of this, by the end of the prequels, everyone in the Republic is screwed except for Palpatine. It's a much more interesting story because of that IMO.

No Ticket said:
4.) There was not a character like Han Solo.

Had there been a character like that in the prequels, fans would have cried "Han Solo rip-off! Luca$ is just selling out and rehashing old ideas!" :rolleyes:
 

Indyologist

Well-known member
Why any warning? How about because you just can't please everyone. There will be things in KC that fans won't like that they think should not have been there as sure as there will be things fans wish had been included. It will not be the perfect movie.

As they say, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. That's just the way it goes. The film is what it is, no more, no less. Disappointment can be the ultimate price for speculation. We're all just going to have to see the film and make our peace with it. In the end, just be grateful that another Indy film was made and that it'll most likely be fantastic like the other chapters in the Trilogy. That's it in a nutshell.
 

No Ticket

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
That reminds me of something Lucas says on his ROTS DVD commentary. He says something along the lines of "Our society likes to avoid politics because they think it is too complicated. Because of that, they elect leaders who promise to clean things up for them. And these leaders in turn often take advantage of the general public's ignorance of politics."

Basically, the prequels were meant in a way to comment on how insane it is that people don't like to pay attention to politics.



Then most fans must have not been interested in a good story.



It is a much more sophisticated than that. Palpatine is the puppet master of the "good" and "bad" sides of the Clone Wars. He plays each of them to get what he wants, and because of this, by the end of the prequels, everyone in the Republic is screwed except for Palpatine. It's a much more interesting story because of that IMO.



Had there been a character like that in the prequels, fans would have cried "Han Solo rip-off! Luca$ is just selling out and rehashing old ideas!" :rolleyes:


Thus you prove Lucas' point that there is no way to satisfy the fans... so there is no way he can or could've "won."

My point is merely, fans were expecting more of the tone of the original movies and they didn't get that. I did think TPM was too political for an action/adventure space sci-fi serial type of story... and I don't care what you say, in the end, most of what I heard was just that everyone wanted to see "darth vader" in the prequels. I would've liked AOTC better if Darth Maul had continued to be in it. I understand Darth Maul was a boring character... but he looked and fought bad ass and killed a Jedi. Much more interesting that Dooku.
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
No Ticket said:
and I don't care what you say, in the end, most of what I heard was just that everyone wanted to see "darth vader" in the prequels.

I don't doubt that. But what fans don't seem to realize is that the prequels were not designed to be about Darth Vader. They are designed to be about Anakin Skywalker's life, his steps toward the dark side, and the downfall of the Republic. It all sets up the original films, in which Vader does play a major role.
 

DoomsdayFAN

Member
Indyologist said:
Why any warning? How about because you just can't please everyone. There will be things in KC that fans won't like that they think should not have been there as sure as there will be things fans wish had been included. It will not be the perfect movie.

As they say, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. That's just the way it goes. The film is what it is, no more, no less. Disappointment can be the ultimate price for speculation. We're all just going to have to see the film and make our peace with it. In the end, just be grateful that another Indy film was made and that it'll most likely be fantastic like the other chapters in the Trilogy. That's it in a nutshell.

I understand. But What did they say? What were their words of reasoning about why?
 

Matinee Idyll

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
I don't doubt that. But what fans don't seem to realize is that the prequels were not designed to be about Darth Vader. They are designed to be about Anakin Skywalker's life, his steps toward the dark side, and the downfall of the Republic. It all sets up the original films, in which Vader does play a major role.

I'm all for the story arc presented in the prequels man, but I did expect more than mediocre acting, horrific dialogue, awful CGI, woeful pacing, uninspired cinematography... basically anything that qualifies a film as great is what the prequels lack. There's no soul in 'em at all, none of the charm of the original 3 - instead George just gave us a 'jumped up fireworks display of a toy advert'.

Nothing dissapointed me more than we I was a 12 year old and saw Phantom Menace, yet I was supposed to be the freakin' target audience! - stumbling out of the cinema, wondering how on earth that cinematic trainwreck came into being. Even at that young age, my bullshît censors were working overdrive.
 

DoomsdayFAN

Member
Well, one thing which eases my nerves is what Ford said at ComicCon: "We're filming a DYNAMITE script"


Hopefully it'll be fantastic.
 

Vlad Dracula

New member
Finn said:
Two sides of a same coin, more likely. Unless you were expecting a turdpile to begin with...

In kind of the same vein, I don't think people had any kind of preconceived notions or unrealistically high expectations about Willow or Howard the Duck. They just weren't very good movies.

No doubt there were many people that had overly high expectations for the SW prequels. They were expecting Lucas at his best and instead got another Willow level movie instead of a Raiders or Empire level one.

I'm personally not terribly worried Crystal Skull will turn out to be another Willow, Phantom Menace or even worse another Howard the Duck. For one thing, unlike the SW prequels, CK like the original Indy movies is collaborative effort with Ford and Spielberg. Plus I?m guessing Lucas himself probably wants to prove he?s still got to his peers and fans.
 

DoomsdayFAN

Member
Vlad Dracula said:
In kind of the same vein, I don't think people had any kind of preconceived notions or unrealistically high expectations about Willow or Howard the Duck. They just weren't very good movies.

No doubt there were many people that had overly high expectations for the SW prequels. They were expecting Lucas at his best and instead got another Willow level movie instead of a Raiders or Empire level one.

I'm personally not terribly worried Crystal Skull will turn out to be another Willow, Phantom Menace or even worse another Howard the Duck. For one thing, unlike the SW prequels, CK like the original Indy movies is collaborative effort with Ford and Spielberg. Plus I’m guessing Lucas himself probably wants to prove he’s still got to his peers and fans.

"One thing makes me think that this movie is going to ROCK!!! (Without a doubt) is that both Lucas AND Spielberg are doing it. If it was just one without the other, then I'd be worried. Too much Lucas wouldn't be good, and neither would too much Spielberg (Even though ALL their stuff is awesome). But toghether, they mesh perfectly. They are eachother's ying and yang. Together they balance out well. One doesnt let the other go on with something obsured. Togther they reach a middle ground which, so far, 100% of the time turns out completely awesome."

Makes sense to me (Ha, I wrote it). But it does make sense. We are not getting a 100% Lucas movie here. He's going in 50/50 on the creative with Spielberg. It'll be good. I mean great!!!
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
Matinee Idyll said:
Nothing dissapointed me more than we I was a 12 year old and saw Phantom Menace, yet I was supposed to be the freakin' target audience! - stumbling out of the cinema, wondering how on earth that cinematic trainwreck came into being. Even at that young age, my bullshît censors were working overdrive.

TPM had quite the opposite effect on me. I was 10 years old and had never seen any of the Star Wars films. So I went to see TPM on a hot June day of 99, and that film blew me away, and it made me want to make movies. :)

Vlad Dracula said:
They were expecting Lucas at his best and instead got another Willow level movie instead of a Raiders or Empire level one.

I though Willow was a wonderful film, full of the child-like wonder that I have come to expect from a Lucas production.
 

otto rahn

New member
"McMuffin" ?:eek: So Indy WON'T be searching for a crystal skull after all. Instead he will be searching for the original rcipee for the McDonalds McMuffin ! Ah, all is clear now !:) (Ah, sorry "commontone" I just couldn't resist !)
 

otto rahn

New member
Vlad Dracula said:
In kind of the same vein, I don't think people had any kind of preconceived notions or unrealistically high expectations about Willow or Howard the Duck. They just weren't very good movies.

No doubt there were many people that had overly high expectations for the SW prequels. They were expecting Lucas at his best and instead got another Willow level movie instead of a Raiders or Empire level one.

I'm personally not terribly worried Crystal Skull will turn out to be another Willow, Phantom Menace or even worse another Howard the Duck. For one thing, unlike the SW prequels, CK like the original Indy movies is collaborative effort with Ford and Spielberg. Plus I?m guessing Lucas himself probably wants to prove he?s still got to his peers and fans.
Actually I think a lot of people had high expectations for "Howard The Duck". The comic had been at least a cult hit (i'm not sure but I think it was a hit with the general comic reading audience as well) and when it was revealed that Lucas was doing the film adaption a lot of people were really pleased !
 

oki9Sedo

New member
DoomsdayFAN said:
Why does Spielberg and Lucas warn that we will be DISSAPOINTED with Indy IV???

Because unless the film heralds the second coming of Christ, most people here will be disappointed. Its just a two-hour film at the end of the day, and alot of people seem to be expecting something much more deeply fulfilling.
 
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