Indy & Marion Divorce?????

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
I would love it if they got divorced. Not just for the heck of it, but because it think it would add another layer into the story. It would give Indiana Jones a much bigger drive to come out on top during the course of the film.
But, I do realize that most do not share my views.

Don't let that dissuade you.

Frankly, Robyn, I find it a bit disturbing to think that the decision ought to be made based on what any segment of fans think, in either direction. Movie making may be collaborative, but that doesn't mean that it's based on some kind of democratic polling process. Heck no.

As for the question of optimism as a constant in the series...take a look at the last five minutes of Raiders again.
 

Crack that whip

New member
Attila the Professor said:
Frankly, Robyn, I find it a bit disturbing to think that the decision ought to be made based on what any segment of fans think, in either direction. Movie making may be collaborative, but that doesn't mean that it's based on some kind of democratic polling process. Heck no.

Oh, certainly, but I don't think anyone here is seriously proposing the Beards should (will) fashion a fifth film in accordance with our wishes. I think we're mostly just discussing what we'd like to see / what we think would be good.

Attila the Professor said:
As for the question of optimism as a constant in the series...take a look at the last five minutes of Raiders again.

We know, but the Ark getting crated up in a warehouse (safely away from The Wrong Hands, one should note) is a far cry from the sort of personal misery being discussed here.
 

Robyn

New member
Attila the Professor said:
Don't let that dissuade you.

Frankly, Robyn, I find it a bit disturbing to think that the decision ought to be made based on what any segment of fans think, in either direction. Movie making may be collaborative, but that doesn't mean that it's based on some kind of democratic polling process. Heck no.

That's true Atilla, but it's also a fact that "the beards" DID decide to bring Marion back into the story and THEY did decide to let Indy and Marion get married, I'm very happy about it, you and some others are pissed about it, so you want to change the story line... but what I'm saying is why bother? Why not just deal with the fact that Marion is Indy's wife now. I'm not happy that Shia was chosen as Indy's son, but he's ALREADY been picked as his son, I'm not gonna go thinking of ways Shia's character can be killed off..
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Robyn said:
That's true Atilla, but it's also a fact that "the beards" DID decide to bring Marion back into the story and THEY did decide to let Indy and Marion get married, I'm very happy about it, you and some others are pissed about it, so you want to change the story line... but what I'm saying is why bother? Why not just deal with the fact that Marion is Indy's wife now. I'm not happy that Shia was chosen as Indy's son, but he's ALREADY been picked as his son, I'm not gonna go thinking of ways Shia's character can be killed off..

Well, I certainly do appreciate your reading more anger and resentment into my position than exists. And I'm not advocating "chang[ing] the story line," but it's difficult for me to see what sort of interesting story they are going to tell in a hypothetical fifth film when Indy is tied down to a happy life back home. The past is past, yes, but that only dictates the future so much. The thing is, what other recyclings of sidekick options are left at this point? Marion, the old flame, has been done twice. We've had the kid, the mentor, the father, the traitorous friend, the loyal friend, the dotty old professor, the femme fatale, and the society dame. The only one that might have something new to offer is the son - although a straight-up protege without the explicit fatherhood connection would potentially be more interesting.

Basic idea is this: a character who has what he wants is inherently less interesting than a character who doesn't. So I'm not going to treat Indy like my friend who I hope gets what he wants. I want him to get put through emotional hell and need to rise above it, to have gotten what he realized he was missing and then have that taken away from him, so that he needs to rebuild meaning into his life in whatever way he can. And considering the obsessions of the series, that probably means combining his vocation with his extracurricular activities, which is to say, in the training of a protege, and in finally becoming the mentor himself, in the field, and not merely in the classroom.

And, of course, these aren't fully formed thoughts. I'm not claiming to have found the definitively correct way of telling the story. But I do think it's probably better than one in which nothing has truly happened between the fourth and fifth films.
 

The Drifter

New member
Very well said Attila. That's exactly how I feel about. I would find it so much more interesting if Marion and Indiana divorced. Without conflict (even personal ones) there's really no story.
There's alot that they could do with it. At the start Indy could be beginning down the road to alcoholism like Spielberg first planned. Caused by the depression of losing Marion. He could have inner-doubts about his abilities at his advancing age, and such.
But, at the end he pulls through. And Indiana Jones lives on to see other and hopefully more better days.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Basic idea is this: a character who has what he wants is inherently less interesting than a character who doesn't. So I'm not going to treat Indy like my friend who I hope gets what he wants. I want him to get put through emotional hell and need to rise above it, to have gotten what he realized he was missing and then have that taken away from him...
Agreed. Apart from "Skull", each movie had a threatening, damsel-in-distress moment (in "Crusade", Indy's dad was the damsel). "Skull" did NOT have a similar situation so bring on the emotional pain/hell for Indy to overcome!:whip:
Robyn said:
I know you don't want her in the movie Stoo, but a lot of people who love Marion do want her in the next movie, so the movie can't just be ruined for fans like me! There's gotta be a compromise to at least halfway please fans like you and me right?
It's not that I don't want her in another movie, I just don't want her to have much screentime. (Reminder: I don't hate Marion!);) Jack Nelligan wishes to set things up for a return of Ms. Willie Scott and I'm just "playing" along.;)
Crack that whip said:
Oh, certainly, but I don't think anyone here is seriously proposing the Beards should (will) fashion a fifth film in accordance with our wishes. I think we're mostly just discussing what we'd like to see / what we think would be good.
Forgot to mention that I never saw "Saw"! (I've always wanted to say that!:p) That said, I prefer to waste my time speculating on things we *do* have in IndyLand instead of things we *don't* have yet (ex. Indy V) so I'll politely TRY and withdraw from this conversation.;)
 

Robyn

New member
Stoo said:
Agreed. Apart from "Skull", each movie had a threatening, damsel-in-distress moment (in "Crusade", Indy's dad was the damsel). "Skull" did NOT have a similar situation so bring on the emotional pain/hell for Indy to overcome!:whip:

I absolutely agree on that one, I LOVE threatening damsel in distress moments! I just want Marion to stay alive and for them to stay married!

(Reminder: I don't hate Marion!);)

Cheers!;) :hat:

That said, I prefer to waste my time speculating on things we *do* have in IndyLand instead of things we *don't* have yet (ex. Indy V) so I'll politely TRY and withdraw from this conversation.;)

I agree.. I hate speculating when we know NOTHING yet about Indy 5.
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Attila the Professor said:
Well, I certainly do appreciate your reading more anger and resentment into my position than exists. And I'm not advocating "chang[ing] the story line," but it's difficult for me to see what sort of interesting story they are going to tell in a hypothetical fifth film when Indy is tied down to a happy life back home. The past is past, yes, but that only dictates the future so much. The thing is, what other recyclings of sidekick options are left at this point? Marion, the old flame, has been done twice. We've had the kid, the mentor, the father, the traitorous friend, the loyal friend, the dotty old professor, the femme fatale, and the society dame. The only one that might have something new to offer is the son - although a straight-up protege without the explicit fatherhood connection would potentially be more interesting.

Basic idea is this: a character who has what he wants is inherently less interesting than a character who doesn't. So I'm not going to treat Indy like my friend who I hope gets what he wants. I want him to get put through emotional hell and need to rise above it, to have gotten what he realized he was missing and then have that taken away from him, so that he needs to rebuild meaning into his life in whatever way he can. And considering the obsessions of the series, that probably means combining his vocation with his extracurricular activities, which is to say, in the training of a protege, and in finally becoming the mentor himself, in the field, and not merely in the classroom.

And, of course, these aren't fully formed thoughts. I'm not claiming to have found the definitively correct way of telling the story. But I do think it's probably better than one in which nothing has truly happened between the fourth and fifth films.


This could work:

Indy tries but fails to save Marion?s life from (insert villain) at the beginning of the movie and while doing so, he loses his eye. The eye would serve a constant reminder of not being able to save Marion. The eye injury could be the catalyst to Indy having to train Mutt to help him on his next adventure(insert adventure). During Mutt?s training, he could overcome the blame he places on Indy for his mother?s death and they could become close, and Marion?s death and Mutt?s vengeance could serve as motivation for a future Mutt film. Indy could also meet a new/old love interest (inset woman, maybe Willie) who could help him get over losing Marion.
 

kongisking

Active member
Jack Nelligan said:
This could work:

Indy tries but fails to save Marion?s life from (insert villain) at the beginning of the movie and while doing so, he loses his eye. The eye would serve a constant reminder of not being able to save Marion. The eye injury could be the catalyst to Indy having to train Mutt to help him on his next adventure(insert adventure). During Mutt?s training, he could overcome the blame he places on Indy for his mother?s death and they could become close, and Marion?s death and Mutt?s vengeance could serve as motivation for a future Mutt film. Indy could also meet a new/old love interest (inset woman, maybe Willie) who could help him get over losing Marion.

A worthy idea...but I still want Indy and Marion to live happily ever after, though!
 

lao che & sons

New member
I don't know, I'm really tired of Marion at this point. They need to create another Indy girl. the girl doesn't know Indy is married and Indy is hisitant to get aynwhere with her but Marion finds out and it could call for some comedy. I don't know about Marion tho, but I know that Mutt is back for sure:rolleyes:
 

The Drifter

New member
lao che & sons said:
I don't know, I'm really tired of Marion at this point. They need to create another Indy girl. the girl doesn't know Indy is married and Indy is hisitant to get aynwhere with her but Marion finds out and it could call for some comedy. I don't know about Marion tho, but I know that Mutt is back for sure:rolleyes:

Why do we even need another "Indy Girl"? The formula is growing kinda stale to me. I'd rather see no love interests in the next movie.
 

lao che & sons

New member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Why do we even need another "Indy Girl"? The formula is growing kinda stale to me. I'd rather see no love interests in the next movie.

I don't know. It depends on how they do it. I'm almost at a point where I just want it to be a prequal and with no returning characters except maybe sallah or short round. But that's true it is getting a little stale
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Why do we even need another "Indy Girl"? The formula is growing kinda stale to me. I'd rather see no love interests in the next movie.


I?d like to see a more mature Willie come back into Indy?s life. This time, she could actually be of some help to him, not a hindrance. Willie coming back could be a good way to also bring back Shorty.
 

Saber79

New member
If they have to bring in a love interest, I hope it wouldn't be Willie. Wouldn't that be lame if in number 4, they bring back Marion...number 5, they bring back Willie....what if they made 6, what then? Zombie Elsa? :dead:

I wouldn't want them to repeat the original movies, just expand from where they left off....perhaps Indy and Marion divorce, perhaps they are together but she's trying to reign him in, perhaps she dies, perhaps he losses an eye. Just continue the story line. I know I certainly don't see any ex-girlfriends pop into my life anymore. Thankfully. :whip:
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Saber79 said:
If they have to bring in a love interest, I hope it wouldn't be Willie. Wouldn't that be lame if in number 4, they bring back Marion...number 5, they bring back Willie....what if they made 6, what then? Zombie Elsa? :dead:

I wouldn't want them to repeat the original movies, just expand from where they left off....perhaps Indy and Marion divorce, perhaps they are together but she's trying to reign him in, perhaps she dies, perhaps he losses an eye. Just continue the story line. I know I certainly don't see any ex-girlfriends pop into my life anymore. Thankfully. :whip:

I can see how Indy would have ex-girlfriends come back into his life with all of the traveling that he does, and with the lasting impression he left on them. Look at Marion for example, after all those years apart, she still loved him, why should Willie be any different? I think it could actually work well with the Indy story to bring Willie and Shorty back for some closure in what will most likely be the last Indy movie.
 
Jack Nelligan said:
...she still loved him, why should Willie be any different?

Because Wille didn't love INDY, Willie loves herself.

Jack Nelligan said:
I’d like to see a more mature Willie come back into Indy’s life. This time, she could actually be of some help to him, not a hindrance.

I don't get the attraction, (besides the Red Dress) to a whining, money grubbing shrew.
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Because Wille didn't love INDY, Willie loves herself.



I don't get the attraction, (besides the Red Dress) to a whining, money grubbing shrew.

I think it would be interesting to see a, for lack of a better term, more evolved Willie who, over time, has grown out of her narcissistic ways and is in a much better place, maturity wise, to be in a relationship with Indy. Maybe she realizes after all this time, what could have been or at least her fantasy of what could have been. I?m not saying that they live happily ever after, but she could help him overcome his grief after Marion dies. As for the attraction factor, Willie is, in my book anyway, the best looking of all of Indy?s women, with Elsa a close second. I do agree that her whining and self-center attitude was a big turn off, but even though all of her complaining, Indy was still very attracted to her.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
But Jack, you're elevating Willie to a place in Indy's life that I'm not sure that she justifiably holds. Yes, there was an attraction there, and they undoubtedly had a fling somewhere on the way to Delhi, but just because she appeared in one of the four adventures they've seen fit to commit to film doesn't mean that she's a significant figure in Indy's life. I'm no big Marion fan, but Marion clearly has a history in Indy's life even prior Crystal Skull that makes her one of the more noteworthy women in Indy's life. Bringing Marion back made sense on this level, even if done poorly. Bringing Willie back would be just another "for the fans" bit, no matter how well done - because giving the character a newly matured persona doesn't jibe with the character we knew in the past. It gives her gestures towards a gravitas that the original script and film never supported.
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Attila the Professor said:
But Jack, you're elevating Willie to a place in Indy's life that I'm not sure that she justifiably holds. Yes, there was an attraction there, and they undoubtedly had a fling somewhere on the way to Delhi, but just because she appeared in one of the four adventures they've seen fit to commit to film doesn't mean that she's a significant figure in Indy's life. I'm no big Marion fan, but Marion clearly has a history in Indy's life even prior Crystal Skull that makes her one of the more noteworthy women in Indy's life. Bringing Marion back made sense on this level, even if done poorly. Bringing Willie back would be just another "for the fans" bit, no matter how well done - because giving the character a newly matured persona doesn't jibe with the character we knew in the past. It gives her gestures towards a gravitas that the original script and film never supported.



I think it would be more of a second chance for her to become a substantial part of Indy?s life, since the circumstances and her own immaturity ruined her first shot.
Indy?s fling with Marion prior to Raiders, was not, at least to Indy, that big a deal, but they had to have some back story to substantiate their connection.
I think if they brought back Short Round and Willie for the ?final? film, it could give some closure to the characters and the chance for the writers to redeem themselves after how poorly they wrote them in TOD.
 
Everyone has their favorites and reasons they want them back. Personally if Marion and Indy were on the verge of divorce, and he came across Willie who was still licentious, then she violently died, sure I could see her coming back. It could illustrate that the vows he took were not something to be cast aside. Like he said in Skull, you never know how long you're going to have someone...

Those Deja Vu moments and strip mining the past movies has become really annoying. Lets get to some thing new already!
 
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