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Old 05-14-2008, 08:46 PM   #26
eroc
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Well that's pretty damn disappointing. I knew the blame should be rightfully directed at Lucas. He has lost his mind.


Lucas:
"...Yes Chewbacca is a girl! However, Indiana Jones obviously isn't!
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:47 PM   #27
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When you think about it it is the 3rd act of an adventure, just a different type of adventure. Mac and Indy have already been pursued and kidnapped by the Russians, now we come in at the 3rd part.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:49 PM   #28
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except for one thing...it's not a different adventure. it is connected to the main plot of the film. so it really makes it act 1 of the story.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:50 PM   #29
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But the prologues have been almost completely independent from the main plot of the films, almost like a "movie-within-a-movie." All we are doing here is coming into the story already in progress. All of the setup has been removed. There is no prologue.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:54 PM   #30
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How are you getting these?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
But the prologues have been almost completely independent from the main plot of the films, almost like a "movie-within-a-movie." All we are doing here is coming into the story already in progress. All of the setup has been removed. There is no prologue.

Each time we've gotten something a little different.
In Raiders, the beginning was completely independant of the main plot. In Temple, it began at the end of another adventure and segued into the ''current'' adventure, and in LC, we got a prologue of a prologue and then the current adventure. This one is a bit different, breaking the forumula a bit.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Well that's pretty damn disappointing. I knew the blame should be rightfully directed at Lucas. He has lost his mind.

Spielberg and Ford went along with it, so I guess they've lost their minds too. Anything that's different is automatically bad, no matter how well it may be handled. Sequels, should, instead, be remakes of the originals.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:04 PM   #33
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A bit? Ha! It's completely deviating from the Indy template. Even in Raiders we meet Belloq in the prologue to establish his character later in the film, in Temple of Doom we are introduced to Shortie and Willie during the prologue and in Crusade we meet Indy's father in the prologue when he was a boy. The least they could have done was introduce Mac's character on some previous adventure with Indy and how and where they had known each other from.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:05 PM   #34
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How are you getting these?



From the said title of this thread.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
A bit? Ha! It's completely deviating from the Indy template. Even in Raiders we meet Belloq in the prologue to establish his character later in the film, in Temple of Doom we are introduced to Shortie and Willie during the prologue and in Crusade we meet Indy's father in the prologue when he was a boy. The least they could have dome was introduce Mac's character on some previous adventure with Indy and how and where they had known each other from.

Why? We don't know where Indy met Belloq (well we do from the novels but that's a different story), or how Indy got involved with Lao Che. Mac and Indy meeting may be told of in a later part in the movie.

Also, this is in a way a third act of an adventure--We don't know how Indy ended up in the trunk of the car, or what led him to this point, or why he undertook the adventure he's currently in.

Just because it ''deviates'' from the template doesn't make it bad. It's called originality. Keep repeating the same formula, it gets stale. As you said in another post, you'd have loved to see Indy search for another Biblical artifact. That'd be the third time he's searched for a biblical artifact, and the 4th time that same intro style is used. That's stale, and that's what happend to Bond.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Why? We don't know where Indy met Belloq (well we do from the novels but that's a different story), or how Indy got involved with Lao Che. Mac and Indy meeting may be told of in a later part in the movie.

Just because it ''deviates'' from the template doesn't make it bad. It's called originality. Keep repeating the same formula, it gets stale. As you said in another post, you'd have loved to see Indy search for another Biblical artifact. That'd be the third time he's searched for a biblical artifact, and the 4th time that same intro style is used. That's stale, and that's what happend to Bond.

Hey, I'm completely fine with the deviation, it helps 4 stand alone from the OT.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:11 PM   #37
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But it's not Indy. The point was it establishes the introduction of Indy's character in Raiders and his nemesis Belloq. We didn't need much exposition for Lao Che because it was a sub-story but it does introduce Willie and Shortie and in Crusade it sets up the father/son relationship central to the main story. I'm already disappointed. Menaced again.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:11 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by eroc
Hey, I'm completely fine with the deviation, it helps 4 stand alone from the OT.

I know, but it seems like a lot of people are thinking this film is a piece of sh*t without even seeing it, and it gets me angry when people are closed minded about a film or judge it before they see it with their own eyes.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:13 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
But it's not Indy. The point was it establishes the introduction of Indy's character in Raiders and his nemesis Belloq. We didn't need much exposition for Lao Che because it was a sub-story but it does introduce Willie and Shortie and in Crusade it sets up the father/son relationship central to the main story. I'm already disappointed. Menaced again.

This would be setting up the main theme of the story as well: the Russians, Crystull skulls etc.

I'm getting the feeling this film will probably be like a second ToD, in terms of reaction. Some will love it (like me and others), others will hate it. But the Lucas haters might call it un-canon simply because Lucas was involved.
Why don't you just watch the film and see how it all works on the big screen? I forgot, you'll just read it on paper, dismiss how it sounds on paper, and not have an open mind about it.

I mean, you haven't seen the film and how it all gells out on the screen and you're already proclaiming menaced again and blah blah blah. Shows what an open mind you have.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:14 PM   #40
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I think everything is going to be fine. Time has passed. Indy don't adventure like he used to. This adventure will be all you need!
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I know, but it seems like a lot of people are thinking this film is a piece of sh*t without even seeing it, and it gets me angry when people are closed minded about a film or judge it before they see it with their own eyes.


After getting s#!t on by Lucas with Star Wars it has become apparent that Lucas doesn't understand his own works. I'm sick of him always downplaying with excuses that "It's only a movie. The fans will hate it." That's no excuse to make a sub-par film when he set the bar for expectation with the original films. If he can't live up to his own hype then **** him.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:17 PM   #42
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Have faith. I do. Besides, Lucas doesn't have free reign on this one. He has people to keep him grounded. I believe Ford when he said on Leno that this one is as good as the others, maybe slightly better.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
After getting s#!t on by Lucas with Star Wars it has become apparent that Lucas doesn't understand his own works. I'm sick of him always downplaying with excuses that "It's only a movie. The fans will hate it." That's no excuse to make a sub-par film when he set the bar for expectation with the original films. If he can't live up to his own hype then **** him.

Different doesn't equal sub-par. Different is different; sub-par is sub-par. Lucas is neither directing this film, nor has he written the screenplay. He has the same role in this movie that he did in the previous ones. This is different than the new Star Wars films, which were indeed sub-par. Wooden acting, and stupid CGI characters, and generally rushed storylines (I mean, the whole storyline wasn't so bad but the way Anakin's turn was handled imo was).

This is different. We have great, qualified actors in it including Harrison, Blanchett, Hurt, Karen Allen and others. Shia is not a CGI character, and it seems like he gets bashed in this film by Indy (''c'mon genius" and what ever other barbs), we have a professional guy writing the screenplay (Some of Koepp's scripts were great, some bad), he even got help from Kasdan. Harrison and Berg agreed to it, so there must've been something good about it to finally agree on this script after going through idea after idea and script after script for nearly 20 years.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:18 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by eroc
Have faith. I do. Besides, Lucas doesn't have free reign on this one. He has people to keep him grounded. I believe Ford when he said on Leno that this one is as good as the others, maybe slightly better.

Faith?!?!?! I put my faith in Lucas with Phantom Menace. Never again.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:20 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Different doesn't equal sub-par. Different is different; sub-par is sub-par. Lucas is neither directing this film, nor has he written the screenplay. He has the same role in this movie that he did in the previous ones. This is different than the new Star Wars films, which were indeed sub-par.
I think after getting blasted for years he's just trying to lower expectations by being honest. It is, after all, only a movie, just like the others which were also just movies.

It's still his story from the horrid Saucer Men From Mars script that has survived because he insisted it. All Koepp, Ford and Spielberg have done is try to throw in more Raiders elements to make it less of a sci-fi movie.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Faith?!?!?! I put my faith in Lucas with Phantom Menace. Never again.


Come on, you have no faith in Ford and Spielberg?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:21 PM   #47
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Come on, you have no faith in Ford and Spielberg?

Ford's career choices the last decade have been awful and Spielberg isn't exactly batting 1000 either.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:24 PM   #48
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Ford's career choices the last decade have been awful and Spielberg isn't exactly batting 1000 either.

True, but even during the '80s, Ford and Spielberg made horrible choices (1941 anyone?).
It seems whenever all three come together, however, they've always made magic.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:25 PM   #49
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Faith?!?!?! I put my faith in Lucas with Phantom Menace. Never again.

Thats shows you went into this with a close mind simply because Lucas was involved.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
It's still his story from the horrid Saucer Men From Mars script that has survived because he insisted it. All Koepp, Ford and Spielberg have done is try to throw in more Raiders elements to make it less of a sci-fi movie.

Let's look back at LC. Lucas had the idea to have the Holy Grail as the macguffin. Spielberg initially rejected it, saying it'd be stupid. Then the idea of the whole Father-Son subplot was introduced, I believe by Spielberg, and it turned what might've been a shallow remake of Raiders into something a bit more.
They have probably kept the same Maguffin and some elements from the original script; but added a lot more to it which will make it great. For example, the whole Lost City of Gold idea etc. That's something based off of myth and legend. It may not be bibical, but really, Indy's discovered the two biggest Biblical relics. It'd be ridiculous for him to discover a third.
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