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Old 05-14-2008, 10:33 PM   #101
Spriggan Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
That's about as lame as opening World Is Not Enough with Bond walking across the street with a briefcase. LAME!!!!!!!


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Old 05-14-2008, 10:54 PM   #102
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Show me the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
That's about as lame as opening World Is Not Enough with Bond walking across the street with a briefcase. LAME!!!!!!!

Spalko, with all due respect, you do recall that the moment you mention opened the longest opening prologue in Bond history, don't you?
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:55 PM   #103
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Spielberg:
"...Then George came to me one day and said, 'You might be right about this alien thing. Maybe we shouldn't do aliens. There's too much of that stuff around.' I said, 'George, I love you! That's the best news you've ever given me!'"


Spielberg, on Ford: "... and I'm sure he's got another 10 years in him if he wants to do something else like this again. Harrison was the secret weapon: he made me realize that he was the center of this piece from the very beginning." and not even George could **** it up.

Last edited by eroc : 05-14-2008 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:57 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynchpin
Spalko, with all due respect, you do recall that the moment you mention opened the longest opening prologue in Bond history, don't you?

In the all-time WORST Bond film ever made.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:03 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
In the all-time WORST Bond film ever made.

Nah, I'd say the worst all time Bond film ever made was A View to a Kill.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:04 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Nah, I'd say the worst all time Bond film ever made was A View to a Kill.

CLOSE but Christmas Jones beats Tanya Roberts for WORST Bond Girl ever.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:09 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
CLOSE but Christmas Jones beats Tanya Roberts for WORST Bond Girl ever.

Why would you say Christmas Jones (name aside) was a bad character?
I mean--even in the best Bond films, the Bond girls are never too realistic and don't have any real depth (for example, Jill and Tilly Masterson in Goldfinger)
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:13 PM   #108
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You're kidding, right? Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist is about as believable as Indy surviving an atomic blast in a refrigerator.

"We have to get the pla-to-ne-um from the re-act-or."
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:15 PM   #109
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How did a KOTCS magazine thread in the Indy 4 Spoiler forum become a James Bond thread?
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:19 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eroc
How did a KOTCS magazine thread in the Spoiler section become a James Bond thread?

Your spoiler about the prologue (or lack of one thereof) sparked a debate about prologues in comparison to Indy and Bond. I still think Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice have the best Bond prologues. Nothing beats Raiders for Indy.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:19 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
You're kidding, right? Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist is about as believable as Indy surviving an atomic blast in a refrigerator.

"We have to get the pla-to-ne-um from the re-act-or."

Well, on the subject of Indy, he's had more unbelievable moments than that, and on Denise, I forgot she played a physicist. I thought we were talking about the Bond girl/villain, the one who was suffering from Stolkholm Syndrome.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:21 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Well, on the subject of Indy, he's had more unbelievable moments than that, and on Denise, I forgot she played a physicist. I thought we were talking about the Bond girl/villain, the one who was suffering from Stolkholm Syndrome.

Oh Sophie Marceau. Yeah she was a non-villain villain. She could take a few lessons from Elsa on betrayal.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:23 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Oh Sophie Marceau. Yeah she was a non-villain villain. She could take a few lessons from Elsa on betrayal.

Yeah. If you don't mind I'm going to make a Bond thread in the Film section, if you want you can lend your views over there.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:24 PM   #114
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Anyway - there is a prologue. We pick up the third act of an adventure where the nemesis and supporting characters are introduced. It is an action piece involving the pursuit of a separate McGuffin and then the primary plot picks up after campus scenes... same formula as Raiders and LC. In fact, it's more like Raiders than LC. LC is the odd one with dual prologues.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:25 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
You're kidding, right? Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist is about as believable as Indy surviving an atomic blast in a refrigerator.

In defense of the fridge, in the fifties those beast weighted like 2000 lbs and they were made of lead. It's great for a movie's beginning. And remember this is an Indy flick.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:31 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitzsche
Anyway - there is a prologue. We pick up the third act of an adventure where the nemesis and supporting characters are introduced. It is an action piece involving the pursuit of a separate McGuffin and then the primary plot picks up after campus scenes... same formula as Raiders and LC. In fact, it's more like Raiders than LC. LC is the odd one with dual prologues.

How do you figure it is separate?
Spalko is seeking an alien body with has something to do with the 13 skulls, and that is the main story.
same McGuffin.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:50 PM   #117
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The Russians are pursuing any and all possible alien technology and Spalko is interested in material from the Roswell crash. I'm not convinced Spalko is in pursuit of the Crystal Skull at the warehouse. From the description, she seems to be after something else entirely...
probably an alien body from the crash site.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:58 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitzsche
The Russians are pursuing any and all possible alien technology and Spalko is interested in material from the Roswell crash. I'm not convinced Spalko is in pursuit of the Crystal Skull at the warehouse. From the description, she seems to be after something else entirely...
probably an alien body from the crash site.
yeah, it is, i know, but i think her whole adventure starts there and stays the course. It's Indy that leaves that adventure and goes on another one and gets brought back in to the original "spalko" storyline. So in a way, it is the reverse way of doing the prologue. get it? i think i do, finally.

so it's the same, but different.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:07 AM   #119
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Well, Spalko is not exactly like Belloq. She's not an archaeologist who is competing with Indy for just any old artifact. Spalko does have a motive behind pursuing this advanced alien technology. So this opening adventure sets up Spalko's overall agenda - to acquire advanced technology. At the warehouse, she is pursuing the artifacts from the Roswell crash site. That's different from the Skull quest, which seems to have its set up after the opening teaser. Indy gets involved with Mutt and encounters Spalko and the Russians again, this time on the same quest for the same McGuffin.

But that's really beside the point. The movie starts in the middle of one adventure and there is a finale to it. Then the main plot picks up after.

This is the same prologue formula they have always used. Someone else always has to set up the primary plot for Indy... government agents, Indian villagers, Walter Donovan. In the case of KOTCS, Mutt is the guy who introduces Indy to the main plot.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:21 AM   #120
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You've got a good point there. But maybe, the main plot is Indy finding Marion? We know
that when Mutt confronts Indy he says that if you help me find my mom, and my uncle oxley you could find the mytical Crystal Skull Of Akator too. He has no idea that Mutt's mom is Marion. We do but he doesn't. Makes for a great twist, really a three way twist.
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:08 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jndy
They are bad movies. The acting, dialogue, and pacing are 1.5 on a scale of 1-10.

The special effects were amazing, but will be dated in less than 10 years. What made the original Star Wars movies great was not special effects- it was a timeless story with "big" themes (good vs. evil), great characters, and a fun atmosphere.

I didn't have any fun watching the prequels. Sitting through Christensen's & Portman's efforts at acting was miserable.

Just my opinion, but I can't believe anyone would dispute that acting/dialogue are critical to a film.

Those unwilling or unable to enjoy the Star Wars films as an old-fashioned serial adventure will doubtless also find some elements - such as the heavily stylized dialogue - distracting and/or unintentionally comic. Enjoying any work of creative fantasy requires a certain suspension of disbelief, or willingness to accept the conventions of the genre. To the extent that film criticism can claim to be objective, it must involve more than the mere cataloging of personal taste, requiring at least the thoughtful consideration of what trade-offs are involved in making changes.

I see the PT as an effective cautionary tale warning against the dangers of complacency, arrogance, misplaced priorities and trust, unchecked emotion, and the corruptive nature of power. It clearly shows the consequences of the poor choices made by the heroes because of their inability to see the bigger picture. They still have good intentions, but we know where those can lead.

This is all conjecture, but the moral ambiguity could be emblematic of a sadder, wiser artist. Itd be pretty hard to remake Flash Gordon when, from your point of view, the bad guys have completely won.

The PT has gone on to show us a far more complex and variegated picture of evil - the means by which it develops, the specifics of what drives a good man to become bad - than we could have previously guessed at. How a selfless little boy, so full of love and light, can become a destroyer of worlds and a merciless warlord, is made painfully evident in the new films. So, from my own perspective, Star Wars shows us the black and the white, and it also shows us the shades of gray in between. It is not, however, morally ambiguous, for the themes of the Saga are quite clear: Loyalty, sacrifice, love and friendship: these are the aspects of life that truly matter, not power, material acquisition or control of others.

The notion that violence is circular ("blood will have blood") is among the most popular of literary themes, perhaps second only to the belief that man's capacity for love is his most redeeming quality, and that with it even death is not to be feared. All of these ideas pervade the Star Wars saga, and help elevate the most recent episodes far above the level of a simple serial adventure.

It is only by mastering the evils that lurk within themselves that its heroes ultimately conquer those that threaten them from without. The failure of many critics to understand this point - the interior rather than exterior nature of moral conflict in the Star Wars saga - probably explains why so many seem oblivious to the extremely literate qualities of the latest films. Yet once these are recognized, it becomes hard not to admire Lucas for his audacity in building such a complex six-part drama, and his willingness to face critical and popular scorn for pushing it through to its logical end.

In closing with this thought, it is worth noting that by virtue of their focus on the technical rather than literary qualities of the prequels, it is not surprising that many critics have overlooked this point. Such a narrow focus trivializes the fundamental strengths of the films as part of a remarkably unified saga. In this case, Lucas surely deserves more objective coverage.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:06 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
I'm disappointed there's no mini-adventure prologue like in the other 3 films. In the SMFM script Indy goes after an "idol." It's presumably the one from the first film and would have wrapped that loose end up nicely plus it would have been great to see Indy finally get his idol back after all these years.


Spalko..The mini adventure in ROTLA AND TOD lead directly into the main story....How is this different? Spalko & Co. is introduced to us the same as Belloq was...In the opening adventure. Belloq even mentions this later in the film.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:07 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Well that's pretty damn disappointing. I knew the blame should be rightfully directed at Lucas. He has lost his mind.

You are simply missing the obvious ( which you should get on the 22nd. ) The opening IS a seperate adventure.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:09 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
But the prologues have been almost completely independent from the main plot of the films, almost like a "movie-within-a-movie." All we are doing here is coming into the story already in progress. All of the setup has been removed. There is no prologue.

You are forgetting about TOD....Just a little aren't you?
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:12 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
But it's not Indy. The point was it establishes the introduction of Indy's character in Raiders and his nemesis Belloq. We didn't need much exposition for Lao Che because it was a sub-story but it does introduce Willie and Shortie and in Crusade it sets up the father/son relationship central to the main story. I'm already disappointed. Menaced again.

OHHH MY GOD!!! It IS Indy because the MEN WHO CREATED INDY made it this way!! you are just upset that they did not do it "your way" When in reality, they followed the SAME flow.
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