Rocket Surgeon
Guest
A fun blast from the past, and interesting reading in light of the re-release...
Apple for teacher? Why'd he do that?
- Thread starter Indyologist
- Start date
Well, I've always thought that it was strange that though all the girls in Professor Jones' class seemed to have a crush on him (actually they were almost swooning!) that it was a *male* student who at the end of the class went up to the front table and put an apple on it. Even when I first saw the movie at an innocent 15 years of age I thought it was pretty peculiar and I eventually arrived at the conclusion that it was the filmmakers' joke to suggest that that male student had a crush on Dr Jones as well. A funny sense of humour if correct, I suppose, but I guess the point they were trying to make was that Indy - even in his straight-laced professorial mode - was irresistible!
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
This one seems to be the most simple, straight forward explanation...
LASTCRUSADER said:
InexorableTash
Active member
I don't know what the writer, director, or actors in the scene intended in 1981.
But at the marathon screening in San Francisco last weekend, the modern 21st Century interpretation of the scene was apparent and unanimous; the entire audience gave apple dude a sympathetic "awwwww".
But at the marathon screening in San Francisco last weekend, the modern 21st Century interpretation of the scene was apparent and unanimous; the entire audience gave apple dude a sympathetic "awwwww".
You can say what you like about the films succeeding Raiders in regards to overall story, dialogue, acting, whatever, but if there's something that's truly consistent throughout all of them, it's this. The attention to background detail and how there's always something to pick up even in the scenes that are otherwise more static.
I Don Quixote
New member
Maybe the kid has a crush on Indy too....
Just kidding. He looks kinda embarrassed, maybe he's a shy guy. I also love how Marcus eats it, almost as if Indy didn't even notice the kid put it there.
Does anyone know what happened to Indyologist? Did she just grow tired of the Raven? That would be too bad, she posts cool threads and posts.
Just kidding. He looks kinda embarrassed, maybe he's a shy guy. I also love how Marcus eats it, almost as if Indy didn't even notice the kid put it there.
Does anyone know what happened to Indyologist? Did she just grow tired of the Raven? That would be too bad, she posts cool threads and posts.
WeAreGoingToDie
New member
I looked into why students give apples to teachers a long while back (unrelated to Raiders, I just noticed that its a common thing in older movies and shorts and cartoons) and what I found was that apples were a traditional present for teachers in the US and a few European countries. It may have started as a simple gift of food for poorly paid teachers or the idea that apples have connotations with good health (an apple a day keeps the doctor away) so it's a way of showing appreciation for teachers.
Of course, doing this makes you a bit of a brown noser, thus the phrase "apple polisher" for kids who suck up to teachers.
I think I saw kids giving apples in Little Rascals and Looney Tunes shorts, which were created around the time Raiders took place.
Of course, doing this makes you a bit of a brown noser, thus the phrase "apple polisher" for kids who suck up to teachers.
I think I saw kids giving apples in Little Rascals and Looney Tunes shorts, which were created around the time Raiders took place.
Goodeknight
New member
InexorableTash said:
Hmmmm...."Not surprised" is all I'll say.
LostArkFan81 said:
And to briefly comment on this 8-year-old thought --- Seriously!?!?!
I remember the 80s, and people saying, "What?? George Michael is GAY?!?!?"
Apple dude was kissing up because he missed a paper, got a bad grade, or didn't feel like he got enough attention in the class.
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
The film doesn't change...we do. Gotto give it to the producers, they crafted a work that continues to be reimagined and puzzled over.goodeknight said:
Girls hopefully...goodeknight said:
The simple answer is most likely correct.goodeknight said:
Surely SOMEONE was in an Archaeology class for archaeology!
Forbidden Eye
Well-known member
Stoo said:I'm going to agree with the 12-year-old girl because this is how I see it, as well. His mother made him do it!
That's how I always interpreted it. Never thought it was a mystery.
Kooshmeister
New member
Speaking as a bisexual man myself, the thought that the student might have a gay crush on his teacher never entered my mind until I read this thread. Thinking on it now, it's a cute idea, but I doubt it very, very much.
My interpretation was the actor was being difficult or was angry for some reason or just a bad actor. They didn't want to do a retake and Denholm Elliott saved the scene by grabbing the apple to take attention off the kid's bad acting.
Apropos of nothing, with all this talk of the student character being bi/gay, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Denholm Elliott was bisexual himself.
In-story, I'll go with the idea that for whatever reason, this particular student was being grumpy and the presence of Marcus made him even grumpier about giving Dr. Jones an apple. So he just sucked it up, put it on the desk with as much dignity as he could muster (which wasn't much) and walked out. Doesn't he even shoot Marcus a look as he goes? I don't remember either man paying any attention to the student himself, weirdly enough.
My interpretation was the actor was being difficult or was angry for some reason or just a bad actor. They didn't want to do a retake and Denholm Elliott saved the scene by grabbing the apple to take attention off the kid's bad acting.
Apropos of nothing, with all this talk of the student character being bi/gay, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Denholm Elliott was bisexual himself.
In-story, I'll go with the idea that for whatever reason, this particular student was being grumpy and the presence of Marcus made him even grumpier about giving Dr. Jones an apple. So he just sucked it up, put it on the desk with as much dignity as he could muster (which wasn't much) and walked out. Doesn't he even shoot Marcus a look as he goes? I don't remember either man paying any attention to the student himself, weirdly enough.
Montana Smith
Active member
Kooshmeister said:
Fruit? (Polari).
Who is he really leaving it for?
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Lends itself to the notion that he's vying for attention in the class...and he's just not getting any.Kooshmeister said:
It doesn't have any direct bearing on the plot. It's not required to be there, and yet, there it is. Spielberg isn't a haphazard director, this detail made it into the final cut because he wanted it to be there. It's not a random event.
As for the extra's performance, I think if Spielberg wasn't happy with the performance, he would have either had the 1st AD reassign the "bit" to another actor, or else drop the gag entirely.
So, in the absence of any official word to the contrary, I'm going to assume that it's there because the director wanted it, and that the actor's performance was satisfactory. With those two points in mind, I think it's fair to analyze it...at least a little bit.
My interpretation is this: It's there as a sign of things to come. Indy never gets to keep his prizes.
In the opening, he finds the idol, and then loses it to Beloq, and then his student gives him an apple, which Marcus takes. By doing this twice within the first act, Spielberg establishes the pattern, which will continue throughout the remainder of the film.
Later, Indy finds and then loses Marion, and then the Ark -- both to Beloq, albeit temporarily.
He doesn't get to witness the opening of the Ark. Granted, it's by his own choosing, and for good reason, but still...he misses out on the experience.
And then, of course, he finally loses the Ark to the U.S. government.
As for the extra's performance, I think if Spielberg wasn't happy with the performance, he would have either had the 1st AD reassign the "bit" to another actor, or else drop the gag entirely.
So, in the absence of any official word to the contrary, I'm going to assume that it's there because the director wanted it, and that the actor's performance was satisfactory. With those two points in mind, I think it's fair to analyze it...at least a little bit.
My interpretation is this: It's there as a sign of things to come. Indy never gets to keep his prizes.
In the opening, he finds the idol, and then loses it to Beloq, and then his student gives him an apple, which Marcus takes. By doing this twice within the first act, Spielberg establishes the pattern, which will continue throughout the remainder of the film.
Later, Indy finds and then loses Marion, and then the Ark -- both to Beloq, albeit temporarily.
He doesn't get to witness the opening of the Ark. Granted, it's by his own choosing, and for good reason, but still...he misses out on the experience.
And then, of course, he finally loses the Ark to the U.S. government.
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Montana Smith
Active member
PanAm said:
I like that idea.
Marcus takes the apple from Indy, just as he takes the artifacts from him for the museum. And everybody else is in the process of taking something from as well.
Essentially it's the idea that the protagonist has to have something to strive for. He needs to maintain his ambition - he needs to be kept hungry - or else he wouldn't bother to risk his neck.
ofacarpenter
New member
Montana Smith said:
I don't know about this. This is plausible, and a true parallel with what is happening and is about to happen in the film(s). But, it feels a little intellectual/cerebral to me...
I understand the apple interaction as more revealing of character than of plot/theme. First, we learn that Indy's class is not an easy A; second, and more importantly, we learn that Indy can't be bought (he pays no attention to the student bribing him); and third, we learn that Indy has an obsessive and more focused, personal relationship to his work even than other serious, educated collectors (the absent-minded way Marcus deals with other artifacts on Indy's desk, Marcus's general level of distraction--which allows him to spot the apple in the first place, then begin snacking instead of getting wrapped up with Indy's story).
In other words, I think of the moment not as foreshadowing, but as character insight about Indy and Marcus and the way that they are foils for each other.