Was Belloq that evil? Did he really want to kill Indy?

I always thought Belloq was an ok guy, not a bad evil person. I mean he is bad but his goal is to get the prize at whatever cost. He is like Indy, both have a passion but Belloq will stop at nothing, doesn't care who is hurt or killed to get it. However watching Raiders lately it hit me that Belloq was planning to kill Indy at the cafe/bar scene. That scene after Marion is 'killed'. If I am right his plan was to kill Indy, or was it a Nazi order? Belloq doesn't seem like he would kill Indy out of cold blood. Sure he had to kill him to the ark he would. At the start of the movie would he have killed him also? I always thought he was just leave him with the Hovitos if anything at all. He wants the prize, I don't see him as a killer. Am I wrong? I think he even liked Indy to a point. I didn't see HATE there. I don't see him as evil as Toht.
Also did Belloq know Marion before the events in ROTLA? He knows Indy so I am guessing he knew or at least knew of Marion? Or maybe he knew her dad? He seems to care for her more than he would for someone he just meet.

Evil has many shades, many levels. Toht delighted in causing pain, fear, and death. Belloq, on the other hand, simply had no care for the rights or lives of others. Winning was all that mattered to him. The fact that he would allow, or even cause, the death of another in order to win is what makes him evil. Belloq doesn't care enough to feel hate. Frustration, yes. Indy is an obstacle, and Belloq would always try to get around obstacles, or eliminate them if need be.

In the bar scene it was Indy who wanted to kill Belloq first. Belloq did not act threatening in my opinion. It was Indy who said they could meet God together, and stood to draw his pistol.

I think Belloq had a respect for Indy, but seen him as a nuisance. Like in the opening when Rene motioned for the Havitos to kill Indiana.
If we look deeper, Indy held a respect for Forrestal, but did not care when he seen him dead in the temple. It's the same thing.

Belloq said it best (I'm sure this is not word-for-word) "You are just a shadowy reflection of me. It would take just a nudge for you to like me."
Belloq kills to get what he wants, and so does Indy.
Some could even say it was not at all heroic of Indy when he could not blow up the ark when he ambushed Belloq and company. He simply let them capture him.

Evil is painted with shades of grey in between the black and whites. Who are we to say someone is evil? Maybe they think that they are doing what's right?

I think that the dynamic between Indy and Belloq was the best hero-villain dynamic in a long time. Belloq said it himself when he pointed out how similar the two really are. Plus, they have a long history of competition, and Belloq can read Indy like a book. The scene when he calls Indy's bluff about blowing up the Ark - that's one of my favorite of all the 'quiet' scenes. That's a character moment if there ever was one.

This is where Indy movies outshine their rivals - interesting heroes and interesting villains.

From Belloq to Spalko, they elicit varying degrees of evil and sympathy. Whilst some villains, like Toht or Mola Ram, are inexcusably evil, others, like Belloq, Elsa and Spalko, are merely ambitious, stepping back and forth across the line of morality. In the end it's their ambition that provides their downfall.

Lonsome_Drifter said:

In the bar scene it was Indy who wanted to kill Belloq first. Belloq did not act threatening in my opinion.

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Belloq was in a bar full of guys on his side.

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Oh and there's nothing to say Belloq knew Marion before Raiders. Could depend on whether Indy and Belloq were briefly friends at the Sorbonne like they were intended to be in the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

Though in my personal canon I like to think Belloq was writing to Jones as Abner Ravenwood in 1935 for the Temple of the Forbidden Eye letters because he didn't know they had fallen out.

Lao_Che said:

Belloq was in a bar full of guys on his side.

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Even before Indy pulls his gun, he says at the start to Belloq "Not a very private place for a murder." or something. Also Belloq says "How odd that is should end this way for us."
So I take that as he planned to kill him are at least let the Nazi guys. I let to think that Belloq wouldn't really kill him unless it came down to it but I think the Nazi guys wanted him dead.

Belloq isn't evil. He's a mercenary. He'll sell himself out to the highest bidder to get what he wants. Which is what he did in Raiders. He allied himself wth the Nazis to help him get the Ark. Hence the scene where he asks what'll happen to the Ark when the Nazis are done with it.

Indiana is his main rival and is the kind of person who will do anything to one up Indy, such as his catchphrases "what was briefly yours, is now mine" and "there is nothing you can't possess which I cannot take away". He one ups Indy twice by making Indy think Marion was dead and then trying to seduce Marion when he;'d kidnapped her.

Belloq was a guy who did what was necessary to win. He recognized that Indy was talented, so he tried to recruit him. When Indy couldn't be bought, Belloq realized the only other thing he could do was eliminate Indy. I wouldn't call that evil, necessarily.

The only reason anyone could doubt Belloq's evil core is because of his reluctance to get his hands dirty himself, which also makes him a bit of a spineless weasel, too imho. It's this cavalier attitude towards Indy or Marion's demise that makes him sleazy. He'll put things in motion that should kill Indy (for example); if Indy dies, it's not like he directly put a gun to his head or anything. But If Indy makes it out alive, he kind of equally doesn't have to look at it as his own personal failure. "Huh. You survived. Whatever." This attitude speaks to the character's utter inability to give human life any value. That is why he could work for Hitler without compunction, and it is also what makes him evil.

Indy's brother said:

The only reason anyone could doubt Belloq's evil core is because of his reluctance to get his hands dirty himself, which also makes him a bit of a spineless weasel, too imho. It's this cavalier attitude towards Indy or Marion's demise that makes him sleazy. He'll put things in motion that should kill Indy (for example); if Indy dies, it's not like he directly put a gun to his head or anything. But If Indy makes it out alive, he kind of equally doesn't have to look at it as his own personal failure. "Huh. You survived. Whatever." This attitude speaks to the character's utter inability to give human life any value. That is why he could work for Hitler without compunction, and it is also what makes him evil.

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That describes well the degrees or nature of evil.

Toht was a man who enjoyed inflicting pain and terror. He employs those tactics to gain information.

Belloq views himself as more cultured, he looks down on brutes like Toht, but his own ambition conjures different methods of gaining information. His ambition is stronger than his desire to do the right thing. That's where he differs from Indy.

Belloq is a mercenary, or rather he will align himself with evil people if it will help him secure his ambition. He tries to explain his descisions to Indy.

After Indy points the rocket launcher at the Ark, and is captured, Belloq doesn't encourage the killing of Indy. He would describe himself as a archaeologist and explorer rather than a murderer. Though, in his wake people have no doubt died due to his arrogance.

To me Belloq was a win-at-all-cost person. If you lived fine. If you died fine.

Belloq, for me anyway, is Indy's one mortal foe. Indy will always face other opponents but Belloq will always be his nemesis (His Lex Luthor if you will). It?s hard to define him as evil though; I think because he allied himself with the Nazis (Almost the definition of evil) we all assumed he was evil like them. There?s no doubt that he?s the antagonist of Raiders but we must remember, Belloq himself killed no one in the entire film (as far as we know) while Indy racked up quite a body count in Raiders alone. So that begs the question: does killing define evil?
To answer my own question I think it depends on why and how you do it. A soldier may shoot 23 enemy soldiers ? doesn?t mean he likes it while a civilian may go out and repetitively stab one person on the street just for the sick thrill and a few bucks. Who?s evil? Obviously the thief. He killed someone for no reason but money and enjoyed it while the soldier only killed because they were ordered to on certain grounds. Indy kills the soldiers because they attack him while, from what we get from Belloq?s onscreen characteristics (manipulative, controlling, at-all costs), he would probably kill someone for his own gain, just like the thief. Whether he would enjoy it or not borders on if he was sadistic or not. Also the fact that Belloq wants to use the ark for himself for power while Indy wanted to preserve it in a museum (the idealist he is). It?s a bit long winded but that and the fact that he?s the hero?s enemy is why Belloq, to me, is evil!

I would think in the bar scene he was trying to convince Indy to join him, and if that failed, then yes, the cronies would have executed him. Indy, of course, would be a very valuable asset for them to have.

As for the Hovitos scene, yes he definitely wanted Indy dead.

Whether he likes Indy or not, clearly he has respect for him and sees him as a very intelligent and gifted archaeologist on his level, but he's a rival, and from his point of view has to be quashed.

Without revealing spoilers to anyone who may read them; In the novels, Belloq is a much deeper character. He's also a lot more believable as a selfish, bad person. In Indiana Jones and the Hollow Earth, he comes very close to killing Indy himself, in cold blood. The entire New Orleans portion of the novel is one of my very favorite Indiana Jones moments - film or novel, and by far one of the best Belloq moments there is.

StoneTriple said:

Without revealing spoilers to anyone who may read them; In the novels, Belloq is a much deeper character. He's also a lot more believable as a selfish, bad person. In Indiana Jones and the Hollow Earth, he comes very close to killing Indy himself, in cold blood. The entire New Orleans portion of the novel is one of my very favorite Indiana Jones moments - film or novel, and by far one of the best Belloq moments there is.

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I have to start looking out for these novels!

FedoraHead said:

Belloq doesn't seem like he would kill Indy out of cold blood. .... I always thought he was just leave him with the Hovitos if anything at all. He wants the prize, I don't see him as a killer. Am I wrong?

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No one has yet pointed out that in the Hovitos scene, Belloq makes the universal sign for "slit his throat." He gave the signal to kill Indy even though Indy was running away without a gun. (Remember, Belloq took the idol and the gun, too.)

Killer? Yes. Cold blooded? Yes again. He was ready to shoot an unarmed man in the back (or at least have his primitive henchmen do the dirty work for him).

goodeknight said:

No one has yet pointed out that in the Hovitos scene, Belloq makes the universal sign for "slit his throat." He gave the signal to kill Indy even though Indy was running away without a gun. (Remember, Belloq took the idol and the gun, too.)

Killer? Yes. Cold blooded? Yes again. He was ready to shoot an unarmed man in the back (or at least have his primitive henchmen do the dirty work for him).

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He did. Wonder if that was because he was out in the wilderness, and thought he could have his rival put out of business without anyone pinning the blame on him.

Later on, he doesn't seem to advocate killing Indy, as he's adopting a suave and sophisticated persona. That would give Belloq a duality like Indy: ruthless murderer/suave archaeologist as opposed to roguish tomb raider/archaeology teacher.

I think Belloq was indeed evil. He did respect Indy, but, at the same time did want to kill him. I've noticed that every time I watch Raiders of the Lost Ark.