KotCS comic spoilers

indyfan105

New member
personity I think the only movie that was ever a really decent rip off from indiana jones was romancing the stone.

Jacob
 

Skipper

New member
indyfan105 said:
personity I think the only movie that was ever a really decent rip off from indiana jones was romancing the stone.

Jacob
Romancing the Stone was OK, but nowhere near Indy's league. I think "The Mummy" was better, but again not anywhere close to as good as Indy.
 

tnswman

New member
Skipper said:
Sure, Lucas had the right to make whatever movie he wanted, but by your logic, every single movie ever made is immune from criticism because the filmmaker has the right to do whatever he wants.

I see I'm simultaneously being criticized for being a Lucas-hater and a knee-jerk Lucas defender. The truth is somewhere in between. I love Indy, and I'm grateful to Lucas for inventing him. I love the original Star Wars and I like the prequels, too, but I still think Jar-Jar sucks and that Anakin as an 8-year-old was ridiculous. Oh, and I also hated the CGI in the prequels. I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

The point that needs to be taken from this is WHAT GOOD does criticizim do? NOTHING!! NOBODY takes a critic seriously..Look at AICN..Those folks are a VERY small group of NOBODY'S!! They give out Love Jobs to which ever theater plays to the few guys there that run the show.. The rest of the folks are the same NASTY grown men who BRAG about being losers and having no lives.

The movie theaters KNOW that groups of fans ( such as comic book fans ) are WORTH going after because they do not just BITC*, No, If they hate something, they will NOT spend their money on it..Nothing needs to be said, NOT ONE comic book movie fan will listen to what a critic says and take it for face value..They make up their own mind.

the same here... People could CARE less what Lucas did with SW..THIS IS INDY!!! People KNOW what to expect..and that is NOT a re-make of ANY of the previous films..which is what people like Spalko wanted both with SW and INDY!!

The common movie goers understand the reality of the situation and are THANKFUL that we are seeing something NEW that continues what Lucas and Co. started in 1981.

Now that the UFO has been debunked and people see that the "Aliens" are done in the SAME FLAVOR as the Ark spirits, The Alien cry babies are shut up. So, After the 22nd...I just really want to see what people Fuss about and how it compares to the outlandish things that have happened in the other Indy Movies.

If you go into ANY Indy movie expecting reality..That is your fault!
 

Vendetta08

New member
They get married!? Why the **** did I click this thread!?!

Oh well, but this was rumored a while back so I guess it really doesn't matter:rolleyes:
 

DrBeezer

New member
tnswman said:
Why did he need someone to sit him down and correct HIS VISION?

Because Lucas, like many creatives, needs someone to focus and cultivate his great imagination. Before he was a giant, people weren't afraid to tell him "no George, that idea isn't working", people like his wife and Gary Kurtz. Because of that temperament and fine tuning, we were given some of the greatest stories of all time... but now he's a juggernaut and no one will say no to him, no one will tell him something can be done better. He fired a guy from ILM because he spoke up while working on TPM. He doesn't have anyone left to fine tune his ideas and his imagination, to sculpt it and raise it to the next level. All his has now are yes men who tell him he is great and magical and collect their fat paychecks. Personally, I blame Rick McCullam for George's creative state. If ever there was a "blow sunshine up your ass" kind of guy... it's him.

I still think Lucas has a great imagination, and lots of really good ideas, , but like everyone, he's got bad ideas too... no one is perfect. Even the prequels after some re-editing, some "focusing" of good ideas (re: Phantom Edited versions) were solid films IMO and exponentially more enjoyable. If he had said Jedi have to defecate into their hands and manually load their feces into their lightsabers to provide them power, would everyone still be declaring it brilliant and his vision that should not be questioned?

And excuse me, but he didn't "allow" anyone anything... we paid him for a product, as a consumer we have the right to demand a quality product. That's how business works. If he made his movie and let everyone in the world see it for free, to share his art for the better of society... then sure, we don't have much say... but this is the real world, and it's business. He's made a half a billion dollars from consumers, those consumers have the right to demand a quality product. And it's bad business to deuce on your consumer base after you've taken their money (re: all his I don't care about the fans talk)

The alien angle is very disappointing to me, I love Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, X-Files the list goes on and on... I'm not adverse to aliens in my fiction, in fact I rather enjoy them, but aliens don't feel right in Indiana Jones to me. I'll see the film eventually, and hopefully I'll get enjoyment out of it.

tnswman said:
The common movie goers understand the reality of the situation and are THANKFUL that we are seeing something NEW that continues what Lucas and Co. started in 1981.

Really, I think the "common movie goer" doesn't give a rats ass about Indiana Jones IV. They care about Iron Man and Batman. It's been 20 years since the last Indiana Jones... the people fueling any kind of excitement and hype for this film... are the Indiana Jones fans... not the "common movie goer"
 

Avilos

Active member
DrBeezer your "logic" is very flawed.

You assume that Lucas does not have people who work for him who disagree with him only because you don't like the end result. Through out the Prequels he took advice from his director friends like Coppola and Spielberg, etc. Giving suggestions on Editing, Spielberg even directed sequences in Revenge of the Sith.

You are certainly allowed to be disappointed in a product you paid for. But don't assume you represent everyone. Lucas's films have a HUGE audience. So lets assume that 50% of people hate his new movies....That still means that a s#1T load of people still like what he is doing. Thats the tricky thing of creating something that explodes instantly with popularity. Being that popular means that you somehow attracted a diverse group of people. That is what Lucas did with the first Star Wars film. But simple math dictates that you are going to lose some of the audience when you continue. Because the audience
was so varied in the frst place.
 
Haven't read this thread. Don't want to read this thread. All I know is that if Indy gets married I shall lose a £1000 bet. I'm keeping optimistic about my potential windfall.(y) (y) (y) (y) (y)
 

Jndy

New member
herr gruber said:
Haven't read this thread. Don't want to read this thread. All I know is that if Indy gets married I shall lose a £1000 bet. I'm keeping optimistic about my potential windfall.(y) (y) (y) (y) (y)

Note to self: Do not rely on herr gruber for financial advice.
 

Goonie

New member
Moedred said:
Odd, like Michael Crichton's "Sphere."

The end is like Sphere and The Mummy Returns put together. Couldn't George Lucas come up with something more original?
 

Darth Vile

New member
Goonie,

Both The Mummy and The Mummy Returns are blatant rip-offs (or at least riffs) of Indiana Jones. I think the worst thing you could say about Lucas, in this respect, is that he's stealing his own idea back... There is only so many ways you can mix the same ingredients, and I'd doubt very much that Lucas would look to those contemporary Mummy movies for inspiration/ideas, as they are profoundly inferior (he may as well just watch his own three Indy flicks).
 

barranca

New member
Lucas having an original Idea, is as unlikely as Bin-laden converting to Christianity.
But to be fair hardly anything is new or original, just re-interpreted, for a new audience. I actually think the ending could be quite cool.
I dont see Lucas's hand in it that much.
He may have 'suggested' the 'McMuffin', but then there was the saucer men piece, then Darrabonts take, then Koepps final draft, then Guy Dyass the production designer, Spielbergs take.....etc, etc.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
herr gruber said:
Haven't read this thread. Don't want to read this thread. All I know is that if Indy gets married I shall lose a £1000 bet. I'm keeping optimistic about my potential windfall.(y) (y) (y) (y) (y)
Poor, poor Gruber...:(
 

tnswman

New member
DrBeezer said:
Because Lucas, like many creatives, needs someone to focus and cultivate his great imagination. Before he was a giant, people weren't afraid to tell him "no George, that idea isn't working", people like his wife and Gary Kurtz. Because of that temperament and fine tuning, we were given some of the greatest stories of all time... but now he's a juggernaut and no one will say no to him, no one will tell him something can be done better. He fired a guy from ILM because he spoke up while working on TPM. He doesn't have anyone left to fine tune his ideas and his imagination, to sculpt it and raise it to the next level. All his has now are yes men who tell him he is great and magical and collect their fat paychecks. Personally, I blame Rick McCullam for George's creative state. If ever there was a "blow sunshine up your ass" kind of guy... it's him.

I still think Lucas has a great imagination, and lots of really good ideas, , but like everyone, he's got bad ideas too... no one is perfect. Even the prequels after some re-editing, some "focusing" of good ideas (re: Phantom Edited versions) were solid films IMO and exponentially more enjoyable. If he had said Jedi have to defecate into their hands and manually load their feces into their lightsabers to provide them power, would everyone still be declaring it brilliant and his vision that should not be questioned?

And excuse me, but he didn't "allow" anyone anything... we paid him for a product, as a consumer we have the right to demand a quality product. That's how business works. If he made his movie and let everyone in the world see it for free, to share his art for the better of society... then sure, we don't have much say... but this is the real world, and it's business. He's made a half a billion dollars from consumers, those consumers have the right to demand a quality product. And it's bad business to deuce on your consumer base after you've taken their money (re: all his I don't care about the fans talk)

The alien angle is very disappointing to me, I love Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, X-Files the list goes on and on... I'm not adverse to aliens in my fiction, in fact I rather enjoy them, but aliens don't feel right in Indiana Jones to me. I'll see the film eventually, and hopefully I'll get enjoyment out of it.



Really, I think the "common movie goer" doesn't give a rats ass about Indiana Jones IV. They care about Iron Man and Batman. It's been 20 years since the last Indiana Jones... the people fueling any kind of excitement and hype for this film... are the Indiana Jones fans... not the "common movie goer"


Your ignorance to the whole subject is amazing....PLEASE educate yourself about the Incan life..They used to Press the heads of babies to make their SKULLS look JUST like the "alien" in KOTCS.. Nobody is saying it is an ALIEN outright... It's up to you to decide for yourself. Look on Youtube for the Lost civilization of the Incas to see the stuff in KOTCS touched on!
 

tnswman

New member
DrBeezer said:
Because Lucas, like many creatives, needs someone to focus and cultivate his great imagination. Before he was a giant, people weren't afraid to tell him "no George, that idea isn't working", people like his wife and Gary Kurtz. Because of that temperament and fine tuning, we were given some of the greatest stories of all time... but now he's a juggernaut and no one will say no to him, no one will tell him something can be done better. He fired a guy from ILM because he spoke up while working on TPM. He doesn't have anyone left to fine tune his ideas and his imagination, to sculpt it and raise it to the next level. All his has now are yes men who tell him he is great and magical and collect their fat paychecks. Personally, I blame Rick McCullam for George's creative state. If ever there was a "blow sunshine up your ass" kind of guy... it's him.

I still think Lucas has a great imagination, and lots of really good ideas, , but like everyone, he's got bad ideas too... no one is perfect. Even the prequels after some re-editing, some "focusing" of good ideas (re: Phantom Edited versions) were solid films IMO and exponentially more enjoyable. If he had said Jedi have to defecate into their hands and manually load their feces into their lightsabers to provide them power, would everyone still be declaring it brilliant and his vision that should not be questioned?

And excuse me, but he didn't "allow" anyone anything... we paid him for a product, as a consumer we have the right to demand a quality product. That's how business works. If he made his movie and let everyone in the world see it for free, to share his art for the better of society... then sure, we don't have much say... but this is the real world, and it's business. He's made a half a billion dollars from consumers, those consumers have the right to demand a quality product. And it's bad business to deuce on your consumer base after you've taken their money (re: all his I don't care about the fans talk)

The alien angle is very disappointing to me, I love Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, X-Files the list goes on and on... I'm not adverse to aliens in my fiction, in fact I rather enjoy them, but aliens don't feel right in Indiana Jones to me. I'll see the film eventually, and hopefully I'll get enjoyment out of it.



Really, I think the "common movie goer" doesn't give a rats ass about Indiana Jones IV. They care about Iron Man and Batman. It's been 20 years since the last Indiana Jones... the people fueling any kind of excitement and hype for this film... are the Indiana Jones fans... not the "common movie goer"


Now, How in the WORLD do you get that "average" fans are not excited over Indy? You do realize that EVERY VHS, DVD, TV release of the movies has been a HUGE success FOR YEARS!!

I can't wait until you are just plain WRONG! You should see that in about 2 weeks.

If you hink that Lucas made the SW films for the 30+ crowds, your are FULL of it!! SW is and ALWAYS has been a kid to teen movie! It is NOT lucas's fault that grown men make it the center of their lives and expect him to make the universe tilt how they desire it to....HE HAD TO STAY TRUE TO HIS STORY!! Nobody else matters!! He would have made all 3 SW movies regardless of how Menace did...Thankfully, Menace was a HUGE success. It's not his fault that you GREW up in way's you did not even realize and could not feel the same amazement at the movies as you once did. However, There were MILLIONS of kids who DID get that amazement...They are the SW consumers now..People are age are just Geeks with nothing better to do.
 
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tnswman

New member
herr gruber said:
Haven't read this thread. Don't want to read this thread. All I know is that if Indy gets married I shall lose a £1000 bet. I'm keeping optimistic about my potential windfall.(y) (y) (y) (y) (y)


Uhhh, You should already realize that you loose......It ends just as it should end.
 

tnswman

New member
Avilos said:
DrBeezer your "logic" is very flawed.

You assume that Lucas does not have people who work for him who disagree with him only because you don't like the end result. Through out the Prequels he took advice from his director friends like Coppola and Spielberg, etc. Giving suggestions on Editing, Spielberg even directed sequences in Revenge of the Sith.

You are certainly allowed to be disappointed in a product you paid for. But don't assume you represent everyone. Lucas's films have a HUGE audience. So lets assume that 50% of people hate his new movies....That still means that a s#1T load of people still like what he is doing. Thats the tricky thing of creating something that explodes instantly with popularity. Being that popular means that you somehow attracted a diverse group of people. That is what Lucas did with the first Star Wars film. But simple math dictates that you are going to lose some of the audience when you continue. Because the audience
was so varied in the frst place.


Good Stuff!

What a LOT of the Haters fail to realize is that SW pretty much stayed true to it's core self...However, The fan's are what changed...People grew up and simply expected Lucas to turn them into kids again...Well, the problem is that Lucas was not making the movie for those 30+ year olds...He was making it for the same target age as the 1st films. THAT IS NOT LUCAS'S FAULT!

What is good about Indy is that the age range is VERY WIDE....you have 6-60+ year olds who LOVE the movies. So, When Steven, Harrison and Co. make a movie FOR THE FANS...They can pretty much stick to the same formula and it will hit all the age groups JUST AS THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY DID!!

Comparing SW to Indy is foolish..However, Lucas should NOT be blamed for making HIS movies the way he WANTS to make them. It is HIS right!

I don't see how ANYONE can dispute that.
 

gallandro

New member
DrBeezer said:
Because Lucas, like many creatives, needs someone to focus and cultivate his great imagination. Before he was a giant, people weren't afraid to tell him "no George, that idea isn't working", people like his wife and Gary Kurtz. Because of that temperament and fine tuning, we were given some of the greatest stories of all time... but now he's a juggernaut and no one will say no to him, no one will tell him something can be done better. He fired a guy from ILM because he spoke up while working on TPM. He doesn't have anyone left to fine tune his ideas and his imagination, to sculpt it and raise it to the next level. All his has now are yes men who tell him he is great and magical and collect their fat paychecks. Personally, I blame Rick McCullam for George's creative state. If ever there was a "blow sunshine up your ass" kind of guy... it's him.

Wow, you are incredibly misinformed. Gary Kurtz is not some sort of creative genius who co-created Star Wars or directed Lucas about how Star Wars should be done. He was a producer plain and simple, just like Rick McCallum who you are so quick to disparage. He was not some friend that Lucas kicked to the curb out of jealousy or envy. He was a producer who got fired because he failed at his job, namely to bring Empire on time and on budget... that's it.

Kurtz was a hired gun brought on board for American Graffiti by Francis Copolla who recommended him. Kurtz had pretty much zero input on Star Wars, all of the Lucas biographies (official or unofficial) as well as the "making of" books bear that out.

You really should read "The Making of Star Wars" it's pretty eye opening. At one point Lucas and director of photography Gilbert Taylor are discussing how they are going to shoot the landspeeder shots. Lucas and Taylor are talking about practical, realistic ways they could do it. Taylor recommends essentially putting the speeder on train tracks and shooting it from a slightly elevated angle. Now mind you, at this point the production is already behind schedule and over budget. So here comes Kurtz with his "brilliant" idea... helicopter shots. Wow talk about wasting money.

Next comes some meetings at ILM toward the end of production. Kurtz comes in and has ZERO to say. He's there for one reason... to play the heavy and to push ILM to get their job done.

On to Empire... I will say this for Kurtz he does defend Kershner and his spending like a drunken sailor to Lucas, but that probably has more to do with defending his own inability to get Kershner in line. Hell just watch any interview with Kersh, the supposed evil overlord Lucas gave him cart blanch to make Empire the way he wanted. It was Kurtz who failed in his job to keep the production on budget... and guess what, he got fired over it.

Really, go look at Kurtz track record after Empire. If he was this major creative genius living in the shadow of Lucas why does he rarely work? And why are his films such miserable failures (e.g., Slipstream... even though it's a guilty pleasure movie of mine) Sorry Lucas bashers, but that's the reality of the Lucas-Kurtz relation.

As for McCallum, you may not like him, but he does his job. He gets everything needed for Lucas to put his vision on the screen, and he gets it done on time and on budget (which is the job of the producer).


Yancy
 
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tnswman

New member
gallandro said:
Wow, you are incredibly misinformed. Gary Kurtz is not some sort of creative genius who co-created Star Wars or directed Lucas about how Star Wars should be done. He was a producer plain and simple, just like Rick McCallum who you are so quick to disparage. He was not some friend that Lucas kicked to the curb out of jealousy or envy. He was a producer who got fired because he failed at his job, namely to bring Empire on time and on budget... that's it.

Kurtz was a hired gun brought on board for American Graffiti by Francis Copolla who recommended him. Kurtz had pretty much zero input on Star Wars, all of the Lucas biographies (official or unofficial) as well as the "making of" books bear that out.

You really should read "The Making of Star Wars" it's pretty eye opening. At one point Lucas and director of photography Gilbert Taylor are discussing how they are going to shoot the landspeeder shots. Lucas and Taylor are talking about practical, realistic ways they could do it. Taylor recommends essentially putting the speeder on train tracks and shooting it from a slightly elevated angle. Now mind you, at this point the production is already behind schedule and over budget. So here comes Kurtz with his "brilliant" idea... helicopter shots. Wow talk about wasting money.

Next comes some meetings at ILM toward the end of production. Kurtz comes in and has ZERO to say. He's there for one reason... to play the heavy and to push ILM to get their job done.

On to Empire... I will say this for Kurtz he does defend Kershner and his spending like a drunken sailor to Lucas, but that probably has more to do with defending his own inability to get Kershner in line. Hell just watch any interview with Kersh, the supposed evil overlord Lucas gave him cart blanch to make Empire the way he wanted. It was Kurtz who failed in his job to keep the production on budget... and guess what, he got fired over it.

Really, go look at Kurtz track record after Empire. If he was this major creative genius living in the shadow of Lucas why does he rarely work? And why are his films such miserable failures (e.g., Slipstream... even though it's a guilty pleasure movie of mine) Sorry Lucas bashers, but that's the reality of the Lucas-Kurtz relation.

As for McCallum, you may not like him, but he does his job. He gets everything needed for Lucas to put his vision on the screen, and he gets it done on time and on budget (which is the job of the producer).


Yancy


McCallum's job is to Follow Lucas's wishes and make them reality..He KNOWS his place is to NOT try to change George's mind and in doing HIS JOB, he is not a "yes man"..He just knows his role.
 

IrishLuck1980

New member
Ah yes, SW Prequel fans. Oh how you all make me laugh. muahahahaha Episode I - SUCKED Episode II - SUCKED Episode III - SUCKED LESS The acting was horrible. Way too much CGI. And characters were flat. Simple as that. Might have been different if Lucas didn't direct all three, but he did. So we now have the black sheep of the Star Wars Family. But comparing the SW Prequels to Indiana Jones IV is pointless. 2 different beasts. It's like I've been saying. Go into the theater May 22nd not to see the second coming, but to see old friends again.
 
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