TheRaider.net
 

Go Back   The Raven > Off Topic > Films
User Name
Password

View Poll Results: The Best of the Alien Films?
Alien 43 47.25%
Aliens 41 45.05%
Alien 3 5 5.49%
Alien Resurrection 2 2.20%
Prometheus 0 0%
Alien: Covenant 0 0%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-10-2008, 09:11 AM   #1
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Alien Series

Writing A Paper on it...

I'm annoyed because I'm currently rewatching Aliens for the first time since I was like 15... This is only the second time I've seen it, but I'm blown away by how truly AWFUL it is. An absolute affront to the first film. And having just seen the third film recently too, I'm really astonished that many consider Aliens the best of the series. Resurrection's not even worth the time, but Alien and Alien 3 are brilliant and damn good respectively.


I'll write more later... it's too early (9am), I haven't slept yet... and I don't want to get into writing a psychoanalytic essay here on the first and third film... No, going to TRY to finish this awful sequel...


...Can barely sit through this mess. MEH.



Discuss.
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 09:22 AM   #2
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
For overall entertainment and pleasure, Aliens is the finest. Alien 3 had potential, as seen in the extended cut. Resurrection is a joke - and not a funny one. The original is terrific, with cunning pace.
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 09:46 AM   #3
adventure_al
IndyFan
 
adventure_al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: scotland
Posts: 577
shouls AVP not be included, it is an Alien film afterall and is in the box sets. But no one would vote for it anyway surely? so it shouldn't be a problem.

Originals tend to be the best.
adventure_al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 09:54 AM   #4
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure_al
shouls AVP not be included, it is an Alien film afterall and is in the box sets. But no one would vote for it anyway surely? so it shouldn't be a problem.

Originals tend to be the best.



No, lame mash-ups need not apply. Would you consider Superman Vs Aliens part of the official canon?


....of course not.
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 10:21 AM   #5
|ZiR|
IndyFan
 
|ZiR|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Mexico / NYC
Posts: 1,226
Alien³ was too messy for my tastes. I found myself not caring for any of the characters, with the exception of Clemens, who dies anyway. I know the script went through various rewrites and upheavels, and that the theatrical cut differed greatly from the directors original vision. Also, I liked that it tried to move back to the horror/suspense theme from the original film; it's just a pity it couldn't have been more successful in its execution.

Aliens has it's moments. I loved when Ripley and Newt are locked in the laboratory with the two facehuggers; it also introduced the Alien Queen. Which reminds me of another thing I dislike about : that it killed off Newt and Hicks. And off camera, no less.

If I were to rank the Alien series according to which films are the best overall it'd be in the order they were released. But if I rate them in the order I enjoy watching most, it'd be this.

Alien
Aliens
Alien: Resurrection
Alien³


Yeah, that's right. I'm one of those freaks who actually liked Resurrection. I tend to think of it as a gaiden, "what-if" story rather than part of the Alien canon. For me, the story ended in the third film with the death of Ripley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure_al
shouls AVP not be included, it is an Alien film afterall and is in the box sets. But no one would vote for it anyway surely? so it shouldn't be a problem.

Supposedly Sigourney Weaver only agreed to return for the last film because they told her that if she declinded to do so, they were going to go ahead with an AVP movie, which helped sway her because she thought that it sounded awful and didn't want it made. Ha.
|ZiR| is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 10:21 AM   #6
adventure_al
IndyFan
 
adventure_al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: scotland
Posts: 577
yeah it is lame but it is in the boxsets. It is still an Alien film, im not a massive Alien fan though maybe Id say differently otherswise. Im not the type to get caught up on what is and is not cannon, I find it all a bit pedantic.
adventure_al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 10:30 AM   #7
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure_al
yeah it is lame but it is in the boxsets. It is still an Alien film, im not a massive Alien fan though maybe Id say differently otherswise. Im not the type to get caught up on what is and is not cannon, I find it all a bit pedantic.


I agree, it is pedantic....


But come on... Mash-ups are comic-hour. Which is exactly the problem I have with Aliens. Pure comic book. Caricatures and stereotypes with none of the depth of the prior film's ensemble. Paxton is by far the worst offender... but that butch Latino woman was also pretty insulting. And Paul Reiser? Who the hell cast this thing?

As ZIR said, Alien 3 did attempt to move back to the depth of the first film by reintroducing the themes of abject sexuality that make the first film such a fascinating study and so truly terrifying. It attempted and didn't wholly succeed, but it's the only true sequel so far as I'm concerned. It stayed closest to the roots while still being original. I didn't love it, but I did enjoy it.



I may rewatch Resurrection later tonight as I've never seen it in one whole sitting and even then it's been a long while.

Luckily my paper is mainly about HR Giger and his contributions to the series (mainly...) so I really only need to cover Alien and Alien 3. Of course they dropped him and used almost none of his designs for the third film but he was at least supposed to contribute.


I HATED the look of the Queen. Ugh, awful. She looked like a spastic, deformed horned beetle. They should have brought Giger in to design it.
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 11:17 AM   #8
herr gruber
Guest
 
herr gruber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29c Bowler Hat Lane, Brollyville, U.K.
Posts: 1,192
Alien3 is my personal favourite. Depressing and very bleak. Gorgeous cinematography, great performances from Charles Dance and Charles S. Dutton. The use of the F word may be a little over the top but, hey, these guys are mostly British thugs and they have bettter things to do than attend English class. Weaver gives her usual sterling performance.
This movie has real balls (unlike it's predecessor, all flashy, gung-ho mullets and silk suits) and proves you don't need a happy ending to be a great film.
herr gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 11:27 AM   #9
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by herr gruber
Alien3 is my personal favourite. Depressing and very bleak. Gorgeous cinematography, great performances from Charles Dance and Charles S. Dutton. The use of the F word may be a little over the top but, hey, these guys are mostly British thugs and they have bettter things to do than attend English class. Weaver gives her usual sterling performance.
This movie has real balls (unlike it's predecessor, all flashy, gung-ho mullets and silk suits) and proves you don't need a happy ending to be a great film.

"Waannnkkkkaaaaaahhhhhhh!"
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 11:43 AM   #10
oki9Sedo
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,181
I can't decide between Alien and Aliens....both classics, too close to call for me.

I thought Alien 3 was garbage.

Firstly it was just so bleak and hopeless. God, that film was just so negative about everything. I knew I would have problems with it from the get go: they kill Newt and Hicks at the beginning. That RUINED the quiet, emotional power of the ending of the previous film, where the nuclear family survives, after all the horrific things that have happened around them, suggesting that perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel after all. But then Fincher just destroys that hopeful notion and sets the bleak tone of the third film from the get go.

Also, it was difficult to care if the characters lived or died other than Ripley They were all paedophiles, rapists and serial killers doing life on a desolate prison planet, after all, scum that were so vile they wouldn't even imprison them on Earth! Not to mention they all looked the same.

It was a very dead, bleak film that was hard to relate to, I thought.

It's been a long time since I saw Alien: Resurrection, so I don't remember it very well.
oki9Sedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 12:10 PM   #11
herr gruber
Guest
 
herr gruber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29c Bowler Hat Lane, Brollyville, U.K.
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
"Waannnkkkkaaaaaahhhhhhh!"



Other great lines include "Oh, F***!!!!" "How we gonna kill this Mother ******?" and " We're f*****".

herr gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 01:43 PM   #12
Tsar
IndyFan
 
Tsar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 147
Alien is by far the best. Aliens is good, but it has aged rather badly; Alien is timeless. The theatrical cut of Alien³ is horrible; the Director's Cut is awesome.
Tsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 08:12 PM   #13
Matinee Idyll
IndyFan
 
Matinee Idyll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 527
Who in Gods name would vote the sequel over the original? I'm very sorry for you.
Matinee Idyll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 10:30 PM   #14
Shortie
IndyFan
 
Shortie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Loving KOCS
Posts: 759
Aliens. Alien is a good film (oscar worthy) but not a good movie (rewatchable). Alien Resurrection was someone crapping out a film & Alien3 is the worst film I've ever seen. I hate it so much, especially how they killed Newt & Hicks. The whole Alien Dog thing was boring. This movie was basically a re-peat of Alien except in a larger enviorment. It also has a huge plot hole, wouldn't Ripley have checked some type of systems thing to see if any thing else was on the ship? I bet so, which is why I see 3 & 4 as non-canon. I'm not a horror fan so the only one I like is Aliens, Predator FTW.



How do you guys think Aliens is crap? H*ll even the critics like it. Alien is a masterpiece while Aliens is enjoyful. I was bored by Alien, probably because I saw Aliens first.

Last edited by Shortie : 05-11-2008 at 10:37 PM.
Shortie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 11:02 PM   #15
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortie
Alien is a good film (oscar worthy) but not a good movie (rewatchable).


Which is I suppose why I've seen Alien dozens of times and still find new things in it each time.

If you're watching it for action, you won't get much enjoyment out of it. If you're watching it to challenge yourself intellectually, there's payoff.

No such payoff in Aliens. Just another ****-for-brains cliche actioner.


It's offensive because it disregards all themes of abjection introduced in the first film and goes straight for the gut with mindless action and explosions. The film could be broken down in fractions for the amount of story vs explosions. I think it'd be something like 7/8 explosions. And that's without even mentioning those cardboard cut out marines and that ****-brained little girl with all her stupid gestures. She's as cardboard and comical as they come. She offers the cute and cuddly family element that the first film lacks. Let's face it, Aliens is an approachable, shallow PC actioner whereas the first is a morbid gothic horror film with loads of sexual metaphors.




EDIT.


I just want to note one scene of interest in Aliens. If you apply psychoanalytic theory to it like you do the first, one scene becomes particularly comical. A gun is a very standard phallic symbol so for a man to hold his gun is for him to assert his power, to castrate an opponent. Etc. Anywho, there's this scene where Michael Biehn waves this big gun in front of Sigourney's face and starts ranting about its prowess, show it off proudly. Then he throws it into her hands, she stares on in awe for a moment before confidently taking hold and strutting her stuff.

...he just slapped his phallus in her hands. Castrated himself, eh?

Last edited by ResidentAlien : 05-11-2008 at 11:15 PM.
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 06:36 AM   #16
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
Just noticed Aliens has just nudged ahead in the vote. About right. Your hatred of it perplexes me, Res...
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 06:55 AM   #17
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Just noticed Aliens has just nudged ahead in the vote. About right. Your hatred of it perplexes me, Res...


Others love for it perplexes me. I stated my case pretty succinctly and others seem to understand where I'm coming from.

It's just a stupid action movie with stupid characters, and a half-assed plot. It's a 2 hour excuse for explosions.



And how very appalling.... I'm disappointed in you, Raven. Let's get some love for the only brilliant movie of the series! Come on film fans, vote!
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 07:20 AM   #18
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
Do you own The Quadrilogy?
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 07:20 AM   #19
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Do you own The Quadrilogy?


Not yet. I've rented it.
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 07:21 AM   #20
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Not yet. I've rented it.

Exhaustive stuff, no?
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 07:26 AM   #21
ResidentAlien
Guest
 
ResidentAlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Exhaustive stuff, no?


Incredible. Really is coming in handy for this paper I'm writing which I just found out is not due Wednesday as I thought, but tomorrow only an hour before my first (and biggest) exam which I haven't had time to study for either! GAH. And I'm only 3 pages in...
ResidentAlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 07:32 AM   #22
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
About my perplexion, I know your grievances towards Aliens, yet on a fundamental level, your distaste of what I find a terrific movie is bemusing and amusing. I guess it's another Last Crusade situation.

Regarding the box-set, the Alien 3 doc is gold, as Fincher slowly realises the snake-pit he's fallen into.

Buy it cheap, so it won't kill to have bought two films you don't care for. That was my mistake, though the extras are beyond value.
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 11:53 AM   #23
Shortie
IndyFan
 
Shortie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Loving KOCS
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
If you're watching it for action, you won't get much enjoyment out of it. If you're watching it to challenge yourself intellectually, there's payoff.

I don't want to watch a movie with alien in the title to make me think. I'll watch something like 'Crash' or 'Hotel Rwanda'.
Shortie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 11:54 AM   #24
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortie
I don't want to watch a movie with alien in the title to make me think. I'll watch something like 'Crash' or 'Hotel Rwanda'.


Fond of Don Cheadle, are you?
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 11:56 AM   #25
Shortie
IndyFan
 
Shortie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Loving KOCS
Posts: 759
Heh? I'm guessing that's the director of both? I've never heard of him, those were jsut some intellectual films from the top of my head.
Shortie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 PM.