What's so wrong with aliens?

Montana Smith said:
I'm sure it was the egg! ;) (Though according to Stoo it was edited out of at least one Indy film...)
Well the evidence points to the chicken, after all I'm pretty positive they weren't edited out!:D


Montana Smith said:
Mac was weak from beginning to end. I don't think Ray Winstone was really on board with this project. Mac didn't convince at all, and it's hard to believe that Indy had any successful missions with him during the war. He was an addicted gambler short of money, and easy prey for the Soviets. He was a gambler to the end, stopping for the treasure.
Like Wilie before him, I keep going back to Karen Allen and Paul Freeman. They contributed...

As far as Winstone and Capshaw: if it's not on the page it's not on the stage.

Montana Smith said:
Yes, they came over as a bit dull. They're sitting helpless all those years, waiting for a skull to be returned. That makes them look a little pathetic. When they get it back, they give Spalko a lame gift and put their foot on the gas pedal and go home, without bothering who gets caught up in their exhaust. It's as though they left something in the oven all those years ago.
Makes you wonder about the mentality of kindergarden "teachers!"
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'd say they weren't good enough...

The feedback coming from some who've seen C&A indicates that they weren't good enough. KOTCS didn't utilize them well enough, leaving me with the feeling that they'd been poorly tacked onto the Indy universe, rather than being an intrinsic part of it - which they could so easily have been.

The nature of the films, in that each artifact is isolated from the general public and therefore doesn't affect the major course of history, necessarily leaves the aliens as an enigma, likely never to return. Though they may be referenced in the same wry manner that the Ark resurfaces in TLC & KOTCS.

Rocket Surgeon said:
...maybe Conan would have been better with aliens.

By the sounds of it, aliens couldn't have hurt Conan:

wellofsouls said:
We saw it on opening night - on a Friday - at 7:30...and there were nine people in the theater. Nine. :confused:

:eek:
 
kongisking said:
But back on topic, I agree that one of KOTCS's flaws was that it didn't go into enough detail with the whole corrupt government subplot. This was a plot department that Darabont's script absolutely kicked ass in.

Another area where they dropped the ball, no doubt.

Paranoia was a BIG theme that wasn't mined, and a shame it wasn't.

A character who saw conspiracies everywhere could have been fun to play with.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
A character who saw conspiracies everywhere could have been fun to play with.

A youngster fulfilling the Mutt role and piquing Indy's interest. Though Indy had himself seen the Roswell wreckage and body in '47.
 
Montana Smith said:
A youngster fulfilling the Mutt role and piquing Indy's interest. Though Indy had himself seen the Roswell wreckage and body in '47.
Democrat or Republican?

...sorry, Labour or BNP?
 
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Indy's brother

New member
The only thing wrong with it is that we actually saw the alien. That was the step too far. We didn't see god when the ark was opened, we didn't see shiva when the sankara stones lit up, we didn't see jesus when the grail worked it's magic, but we saw a fully fleshed out alien at the end of KOTCS. Leaving it to the imagination would have been better. Other than that, the only reason people have a problem with aliens is because it doesn't fit the traditional confines of religious belief for the western world. I thought that it was a fine idea. No more or less ridiculous than any of the others. Less, actually because it's not a true deity. Just another mortal(ish) sentient being like us. Perhaps that's another spot that people have a hang up with. At any rate, I thought it was a bold and interesting idea. Besides, I don't care what anyone thinks, the crystal skull is the coolest-looking quest item yet, imho.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Democrat or Republican?

...sorry, Labour or BNP?

Would it make a difference? (Labour and Conservative are pretty interchangeable here. The BNP look like a bunch of thugs).

Indy's brother said:
The only thing wrong with it is that we actually saw the alien. That was the step too far. We didn't see god when the ark was opened, we didn't see shiva when the sankara stones lit up, we didn't see jesus when the grail worked it's magic, but we saw a fully fleshed out alien at the end of KOTCS. Leaving it to the imagination would have been better. Other than that, the only reason people have a problem with aliens is because it doesn't fit the traditional confines of religious belief for the western world. I thought that it was a fine idea. No more or less ridiculous than any of the others. Less, actually because it's not a true deity. Just another mortal(ish) sentient being like us. Perhaps that's another spot that people have a hang up with. At any rate, I thought it was a bold and interesting idea. Besides, I don't care what anyone thinks, the crystal skull is the coolest-looking quest item yet, imho.

The problem is that the myths they're based on are too recent. There's nothing archaic about the aliens. They're defined by mid-Twentieth century charlatans. It's suddenly a whole new world for Indy.
 
Indy's brother said:
...Other than that, the only reason people have a problem with aliens is because it doesn't fit the traditional confines of religious belief for the western world.

Huh?

Montana Smith said:
The problem is that the myths they're based on are too recent. There's nothing archaic about the aliens. They're defined by mid-Twentieth century charlatans. It's suddenly a whole new world for Indy.

Yes...or in other words:

Rocket Surgeon said:
In keeping with why aliens are just plain wong, I agree, the pop culture revisionist history regarding ancient aliens is too contemporary to hold any real allure. All Crystal Skull did was take a hokey reimagining and cheapen Indy by having him simply explain it away/endorse it.

It holds no appreciable link to anything remotely historical or romantically "lost in the sands of time."

Montana Smith said:
Would it make a difference? (Labour and Conservative are pretty interchangeable here. The BNP look like a bunch of thugs)..
Sounds like the Alien was either a Labour or BNP supporter...
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Yes...or in other words:

But the interesting facet is at they were there at the inception. They wouldn't have seemed so out of place if Lucas had chosen that possible path for ROTLA.

Rocket Surgeon said:
Sounds like the Alien was either a Labour or BNP supporter...

You meant the Alien?

In that case, a BNP thug.
 

Indy's brother

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:

The most popular entries to the series have been those concerning Judeo-Christian macguffins/lore. TOD and KOTCS, not so much. KOTCS goes even further than TOD's Kali and Shiva by going for a "god" that is not a deity at all, which is something that western, i.e., "christian" sensibilities don't have anything in common with at all. It's not comfortable enough of a concept for an audience that has seemingly proven to prefer a more biblical slant towards the supernatural.
 
Indy's brother said:
The most popular entries to the series have been those concerning Judeo-Christian macguffins/lore. TOD and KOTCS, not so much. KOTCS goes even further than TOD's Kali and Shiva by going for a "god" that is not a deity at all, which is something that western, i.e., "christian" sensibilities don't have anything in common with at all. It's not comfortable enough of a concept for an audience that has seemingly proven to prefer a more biblical slant towards the supernatural.

Taking exception with your absolute. That's all.
 

HJTHX1138

New member
Nurhachi1991 said:
If Aliens are good enough for Cowboy's there good enough for Indy

Okay, I have to jump in here . . .

"Cowboys and Aliens" worked becuase the aliens were used as a parallel and it was designed to be a genre bending story.

The aliens were taking over planets, the same way cowboys were conquering the Western frontier. This point was drilled into your head in the comic book, it was way more subtle in the movie.

I'm sorry I had to do that, but I am the only person defending that movie.

402857-kazimhead_large.jpg


(Just imagine a little C&A tattoo there . . .)

In regards to the thread, "aliens" just needed to be handled differently, or not seen directly, something I pointed out here: http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=22032&highlight=aliens
 
HJTHX1138 said:
Okay, I have to jump in here . . .

"Cowboys and Aliens" worked becuase the aliens were used as a parallel and it was designed to be a genre bending story.
How are you defining "worked"?

Last I saw, Cowboys and Aliens was a bomb...

not to be confused with "Tha Bom".:rolleyes:
 

HJTHX1138

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
How are you defining "worked"?

Last I saw, Cowboys and Aliens was a bomb...

not to be confused with "Tha Bom".:rolleyes:

:(

People have this idea it was bad, maybe it didn't do as well as it had planned, but in my opinion, it worked thematically.

See, this is why I said I was a defender. Everywhere I go, everyone gives me crap about it.
 
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