Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Sure!
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'm still waiting for man to actually land on the moon.
How many generations will find ROTLA to be a classic?
- Thread starter Henry W Jones
- Start date
Sure!
I'm still waiting for man to actually land on the moon.
In the context of its time and place in cinematic history, I think Raiders will always be seen as a classic. This will not just be in some maudlin sentimental way, but via academic analysis that can weigh and judge its intended style, its derivation, its aesthetic supremacy considering the technology of the time and through the script writing, direction, etc.
It has achieved a timelessness, in that its qualities will always be evident and not become passe.
It has achieved a timelessness, in that its qualities will always be evident and not become passe.
kongisking
Active member
A good example of why Raiders is destined to be a classic forever, and please excuse the shamelessness of this on my part, is nothing other than the original 1933 King Kong. In it's time, it was a huge hit, a respected work of cinema, and a grand, exciting adventure. Nearly 100 years later, it is still held in incredibly high esteem by most critics, despite the apparent primitiveness of the techniques used, and the unfortunate stereotypes.
And seeing as I consider Raiders to be the historical crowning achievement of the adventure film alongside Kong, I'd say it has the same chances of immortality that '33s Kong had.
And seeing as I consider Raiders to be the historical crowning achievement of the adventure film alongside Kong, I'd say it has the same chances of immortality that '33s Kong had.
You folks keep talking about critics. Who's to say that practical effects and classical Hollywood cutting aren't going to be to the future what black & white or silent cinema are today: things that many cannot conceive of spending their time on.
Older works of art can live on for those who care to find out about them, but that's not such a large portion of the population.
I'm doing a bit of poking around, but do any of you know of any statistics on film viewership along these lines? How many today, or of a given age, have seen a black and white film or a silent film or a film made before they were born?
Older works of art can live on for those who care to find out about them, but that's not such a large portion of the population.
I'm doing a bit of poking around, but do any of you know of any statistics on film viewership along these lines? How many today, or of a given age, have seen a black and white film or a silent film or a film made before they were born?
Montana Smith
Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Indeed.
kongisking said:
King Kong (1933) was a marvel for its time. Today it's clunky and wholly outdated. How many today would rather watch the 1933 version over the much better made 2005?
And in 2213 who would rather watch the 2005 version than experience Skull Island first hand in ultra 3D?
It's bit of bad analogy, drawing a parallel between a literary and a film classic.Forbidden Eye said:
Since the times of Sir Doyle and before him, we still have plenty of literature being created and read. And the technology hasn't exactly changed during all those years either. It's still in print, black on white, you flick the pages to move along in the story.
This is a very spot-on deduction. The status of a classic depends on the status of the medium it stands on. So for Indiana Jones to remain a known and revered figure in the future, film in some form still needs to be a mainstay.The Drifter said:
(By the way, over the last decade or so, I think I've actually seen more stage plays than movies from the big screen. Maybe it's a cultural thing? *grumble* ...uncivilized 'Muricans.)
There is one way for Raiders to be saved from scrap heap even if its chosen medium has become a thing of the past, though. That is, to transcend it. A solid example would be something even older than plays; that is to say, oral storytelling. As history tells us, this was the chief form of entertainment before mass-produced literature. Storytellers and minstrels roamed the known Earth, and spreading legends. Apart from a few funny verses, many have been lost forever. However, those that somebody did write up on paper remain, such as Iliad, Edda or, well... Kalevala, are arguably classics, and in places revered as even something more.
So, to sum it up, if Indy remains a popular character in whichever medium is the standard two centuries from now, then his origins are very likely well-known as well.
Stoo
Well-known member
Thus is the difference between a film's immortality and its character's immortality. Part of what has kept Kong alive in the public conciousness is the remakes and spin-offs. People today know who King Kong is but it's doubtful that very many of those people have seen (or care to see) the original.kongisking said:
The Indiana Jones character will probably have the same chance of immortality, however, I doubt the general public (80 years from now) will have seen "Raiders".
A good question, Attila. If folks here at The Raven are any indication, I'd imagine that number is very small. One can't help but be reminded of that great quote from Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens (I can't remember the exact quote but isn't it something like):Attila the Professor said:
"A classic is something that everybody wants to have read but nobody wants to read."
Count me as one of the few.Montana Smith said:
lancasterjames
New member
I would agree with what a lot of people are saying in that the character, or perhaps just the icon, of Indiana Jones will live on. Hell, I found this site because I was describing one of my own stories as "Indiana Jones-like." In truth, it isn't so much "Indiana Jones" as it is "adventurer." But Indy has taken the place of that monicker, much the same way "xerox" took the place of "copy machine" or "Kleenex" took "tissue."
On top of that, there's the image of him. A picture, of course, speaks a thousand words, especially in this day and age, and I believe it will remain so, or become more so, in the future. So the image of Indy will be pretty well solidified, challenged only by the occasional adventurer images. But I don't think any of them, mine included, will actually take his place.
That being said, though, I think it will be much the same way as most icons. The original concept will remain, but not the sequels. Someone mentioned King Kong earlier. That's true, everyone knows that image. Few have seen it, but it's a name and image that remains. Hardly anyone even knows there were a few sequels. (And thank god for that!)
On top of that, there's the image of him. A picture, of course, speaks a thousand words, especially in this day and age, and I believe it will remain so, or become more so, in the future. So the image of Indy will be pretty well solidified, challenged only by the occasional adventurer images. But I don't think any of them, mine included, will actually take his place.
That being said, though, I think it will be much the same way as most icons. The original concept will remain, but not the sequels. Someone mentioned King Kong earlier. That's true, everyone knows that image. Few have seen it, but it's a name and image that remains. Hardly anyone even knows there were a few sequels. (And thank god for that!)
kongisking
Active member
Those are decent points, fellas. It's entirely possible that many years from now, the iconography of a character will outlast the actual stories he appeared in. For cinema's sake, I kind of hope this will be proven incorrect, though, as I'd hate for such masterpieces as Raiders and Kong to be forgotten...
Henry Jones VII
Active member
I think the younger generations will view it as a classic, but I think it's like a great book, the older generations have to pass to them the love for these movies and why they are great action/adventure stories.
I got my nephew into these movies and he loves the character of Indiana Jones.
I got my nephew into these movies and he loves the character of Indiana Jones.
ListenLiveLong
New member
Heck, whenever I rewatch the IJ movies (the trilogy to be exact), I think "these were made almost 30 years ago and they look brand new to me". So I suppose it's timeless.Forbidden Eye said:
Forbidden Eye
Well-known member
Using Wayback Machine Raiders used to rank as high as #15 on IMDB's Top 250 list. In 2012 when the film were released on Blu-Ray, it was ranked in early 20s. It has dropped significantly since then. Today, it ranks #55.
Indy 5 really can't come soon enough. Indiana Jones seems to have faded a bit from public consciousness in our current world of "brands" and "IPs".
By contrast, something like Back To The Future, which hasn't had a new installment since 1990, got a huge popularity bump after the 2015 hype. UK voted for it as favorite 80s movie. Indiana Jones nowhere to be found on it(Goonies doesn't count).
Indy 5 really can't come soon enough. Indiana Jones seems to have faded a bit from public consciousness in our current world of "brands" and "IPs".
By contrast, something like Back To The Future, which hasn't had a new installment since 1990, got a huge popularity bump after the 2015 hype. UK voted for it as favorite 80s movie. Indiana Jones nowhere to be found on it(Goonies doesn't count).
Raiders should remain popular as long as the film format itself is a thing. Books didn't kill verbal story telling anymore than films killed books, so I imagine there will always be a place for the format.
At some point technology will get to the point where interactive/participatory media is the norm, and at that point I could see 'static' films fading in popularity. Even then, you could have a renaissance of classic films ala the 'Flicksyncs' from Ready Player One and give a whole new way to experience those stories. Who wouldn't love to don a VR rig and 'be' Indy?
At some point technology will get to the point where interactive/participatory media is the norm, and at that point I could see 'static' films fading in popularity. Even then, you could have a renaissance of classic films ala the 'Flicksyncs' from Ready Player One and give a whole new way to experience those stories. Who wouldn't love to don a VR rig and 'be' Indy?