Were the Aliens & Crystal Skull underdeveloped?

Raiders90

Well-known member
Consider that the Ark of the Covenant and Holy Grail are very firmly established relics of lore in Western culture. The Ark is less known but has a Biblical background and Grail lore has been a part of the West for centuries. The Sankara Stones, while less accessible to Western audiences, were developed enough at least within the actual film to be shown to pose some threat (They could be used to turn entire villages to dust and cause famines, for example - they had that level of power).

The aliens, I feel, on the other hand were underdeveloped. The film asks the audience many more questions than it answers, and, when using an already controversial idea, that's a problem.

-The Aliens are shown to be a hive mind, only in operation when all heads are attached. Yet one lone skull has mind control abilities?

-The Aliens supposedly helped the Ugha Tribe develop technologies and civilization far beyond that of the modern era, but we get to Akator and it is a pretty average ancient Mayan/Peruvian type ruin. There are no signs of paved roads or advanced technologies.

-The Aliens seem to have been "archaeologists" of humanity, but this angle is never fully developed or explored. Does this mean they guided all of mankind's civilizations? Or simply studied them?

-Why settle their ship in Peru? Why settle on Earth, period?

-Why did none of the Ugha attempt to reclaim the Skull for their Gods?

-How did a 15th or 16th century warrior manage to behead an almost god-like alien being?

-Why in 500 years were no other aliens (like the "distant cousin" at Roswell) able to find Akator?

-If the city temple was MEANT to be found, and it seems the aliens wanted the skull returned, why the barriers and booby traps? The Grail was not meant to be found except by one worthy man or woman. The Ark was lost to history and sealed away because it was dangerous. The Temple of Doom has booby traps because it is a secret society attempting to remain secret and infiltrate mainstream Indian culture and they do not wish to be found. But the aliens want the skull to be returned, so why barriers, why traps?

-Why did the Skull only seem to mildly influence Indy, but turned Oxley into raving lunatic? Why did the return of the Skull to the Alien cure Oxley?

I just feel that it's not that Indiana Jones meets Aliens is the issue; it's how underdeveloped the alien angle - ripe for creating a new mythology around - is.
 

Grizzlor

Well-known member
Part of the issue was that Spielberg, perhaps cognizant of having directed several alien-based films, did not want this as the theme? We know Ford wasn't keen on it. Personally, I really liked the "original" alleged script that was leaked. I think it worked a lot better. Due to being kind of embarrassed by it, the final script treated it pretty badly. It was just a bad script, brought on by the differences between the big 3.
 
This film is passable for me but yes, it asks way too much from the audience. It takes the "suspend your belief" thing too far, even for Indiana Jones standards.

Raiders112390 said:
-The Aliens are shown to be a hive mind, only in operation when all heads are attached. Yet one lone skull has mind control abilities?

They are capable of hive mind but all possess that power as demonstrated after Indy and Mutt are captured.

Raiders112390 said:
-The Aliens supposedly helped the Ugha Tribe develop technologies and civilization far beyond that of the modern era, but we get to Akator and it is a pretty average ancient Mayan/Peruvian type ruin. There are no signs of paved roads or advanced technologies.

I don't remember the wording in the film but if they said beyond modern era, that was definitely a mistake in the script or art direction. For now, just think of it as the characters' interpretation of the story. They don't know the truth exactly until they find the city.

Raiders112390 said:
-The Aliens seem to have been "archaeologists" of humanity, but this angle is never fully developed or explored. Does this mean they guided all of mankind's civilizations? Or simply studied them?

For the sake of Indy's canon, I hope this is not true because that would mean each Indy film has an alien angle or origin. The Aliens probably studied and collected artifacts, stepping in from time to time when humans nearly starved or killed each other off for good.

Raiders112390 said:
-Why settle their ship in Peru? Why settle on Earth, period?

They may have set up other places as well. We don't know and never will (unless Indy 5 has more alien plot points but I highly doubt it.

Raiders112390 said:
-Why did none of the Ugha attempt to reclaim the Skull for their Gods?

They might have. How did the conquistadors die? Did the Ugha kill them? I don't know either.

Raiders112390 said:
-How did a 15th or 16th century warrior manage to behead an almost god-like alien being?

"If it bleeds, we can kill it." Wait that's from another movie that takes place in a similar area... I'm sure they could be murdered like anyone else. Not a very important story point. A god got beheaded, thus the legend started.

Raiders112390 said:
-Why in 500 years were no other aliens (like the "distant cousin" at Roswell) able to find Akator?

The Aliens and their cousins probably had no knowledge of the event and the said Crystal Skull's friends didn't have an interest in returning themselves. Returning the skull, triggered an alert system - like a beacon and the ship automatically flew home.

Raiders112390 said:
-If the city temple was MEANT to be found, and it seems the aliens wanted the skull returned, why the barriers and booby traps? The Grail was not meant to be found except by one worthy man or woman. The Ark was lost to history and sealed away because it was dangerous. The Temple of Doom has booby traps because it is a secret society attempting to remain secret and infiltrate mainstream Indian culture and they do not wish to be found. But the aliens want the skull to be returned, so why barriers, why traps?

Only those with knowledge of the tomb could make it past those traps. Same with past booby traps. The ones who don't know what's coming are most likely looters (like Indy ;) ) - The right person, or chosen one, would know to keep moving down the stairs before they closed. Had Indy and company not hesitated, it might not have been so dramatic. Alarming, but survivable.

Raiders112390 said:
-Why did the Skull only seem to mildly influence Indy, but turned Oxley into raving lunatic? Why did the return of the Skull to the Alien cure Oxley?

Spalko theorizes he spent too much time looking into it's eyes. Indy was only for a moment. His cure may have been a part of the "gift" or aliens needed him to obsess over Akator in order for the ship to be found and "returned" home. That ship looked expensive.

Raiders112390 said:
I just feel that it's not that Indiana Jones meets Aliens is the issue; it's how underdeveloped the alien angle - ripe for creating a new mythology around - is.

Yes, despite the 19 years between Last Crusade and Kingdom, the script needed a little more time. They rushed at the last minute.
 

PaleFoxoftheBalkanBazaars

Well-known member
I actually kind of enjoy the lack of development surrounding them. It somehow adds a certain gravity and mystery totheir presence and purpose. From my standpoint, many movies today tend to overexplain every plot point to appease the focus on canon and continuity. I acutally kind of like that Indy is just as flummoxed on all of the points that the audience is. It allows the mystery to still be present in the "discovery" at the end. Somehow it feels more like an old school adventure film as a result. It allows the viewer/audience to contemplate the gaps and fill them in with their own theories, rather than having it all spelled out.
 

fedoraboy

Well-known member
An awful LOT about this film felt underdeveloped, ironic considering it had the longest gestation period of any of them, including the new one.

But yes, you're right, the aliens' presence was incredibly confusing as you point out in your detailed post. An example of us fans putting much more thought into this than the creators ever did.
 

British Raider

Well-known member
They certainly didn’t need more developing, and nor are the audience expected to over-think it all. The same can be said for the others, particularly the Last Crusade where the incomplete inscriptions, clues, and Knights don’t make a lick of sense of you think about it too deeply. But we’re not expected to. It’s just KOTCS expects the audience to accept swinging Mutt and surviving 3 waterfalls, which then makes us question everything more.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
The idea of them being archeologists is rather chucked in and never mentioned again, I agree. It's only really there to give Winstone's character a reason to die, but it feels underdeveloped, it's true.
 

michael

Well-known member
my problem with aliens in this film, is that it feeds into the trope of 'central/southern american natives' were too dumb to figure out civilization without help.

it's completely antithetical to any true archaeology.

I know that sentence is a stretch in these films that do take a liberty with stuff, obviously.

but it's egregious in Skull with the aliens. The sankara stones are on that same level but more to an extent of a 'good-luck' charm, rather than teaching a village of people.

I never had a problem the concept of aliens in an Indy film. Indy watching a saucer take off is another brilliant 'notch on his belt of discoveries'
but it does come off tasteless to simply say aliens are the reason for agriculture and civilization in the amazon.
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
my problem with aliens in this film, is that it feeds into the trope of 'central/southern american natives' were too dumb to figure out civilization without help.
This is a take I read about years later in response to the 'Ancient Aliens' craze that happened when this film came out. I don't know if this film helped spark it or not, but it's possible.

And it wasn't an idea that I would've considered before. It does seem problematic in a lot of ways and I think that it is a point lost on a lot of people. Personally, I want to think many people just thought it was a cool, fun idea to entertain rather than a slag against non-white, ancient cultures.

But often that's how real biases are. They're deep/subconscious.

It's odd how both of the more maligned films in Indy - Temple/Kingdom - have elements that may be considered really offensive to different cultures.
 

michael

Well-known member
This is a take I read about years later in response to the 'Ancient Aliens' craze that happened when this film came out. I don't know if this film helped spark it or not, but it's possible.

And it wasn't an idea that I would've considered before. It does seem problematic in a lot of ways and I think that it is a point lost on a lot of people. Personally, I want to think many people just thought it was a cool, fun idea to entertain rather than a slag against non-white, ancient cultures.

But often that's how real biases are. They're deep/subconscious.

It's odd how both of the more maligned films in Indy - Temple/Kingdom - have elements that may be considered really offensive to different cultures.

and you know what? i only picked up on it after reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-City-Monkey-God-Story/dp/1455569410

i went on an amazon (the jungle) reading spree and that book mentions the trope a bit (not the film)
 

TheFedora

Active member
The idea of them being archeologists is rather chucked in and never mentioned again, I agree. It's only really there to give Winstone's character a reason to die, but it feels underdeveloped, it's true.
For them being archaeologists, they kind of destroyed their whole room full of treasure when they left.... Always found that was a bit odd to be honest. Or maybe they were just in a hurry to leave.
 

michael

Well-known member
-Why did none of the Ugha attempt to reclaim the Skull for their Gods?

My goodness I've seen this movie so many times and I've never once thought of that. But you're absolutely right.

It kinda makes my head hurt to try to piece it all together.
 

Ender

Well-known member
my problem with aliens in this film, is that it feeds into the trope of 'central/southern american natives' were too dumb to figure out civilization without help.
Eh, idk, they were leading a fictional civilization in the middle of the Amazon. They never take credit for the Aztec, the Maya, the Inca, or any other such civilization. The only exception is the Nazca Lines and frankly, that's something that's just vaguely alluded to and doesn't really make sense given the geographical distance, unless it's one of their many foreign trips alluded to by the exotic artifacts in Akator.

Honestly, I get the sentiment behind what you're saying, but at a certain point ancient aliens are just goofy sci-fi. If anything I think the correlation is less with how non-European the civilization is and more with how mysterious they're perceived as, since it allows more creative leeway. I think KotCS handled it as tastefully as you could.
 

Lao_Che

Active member
The idea of them being archeologists is rather chucked in and never mentioned again, I agree. It's only really there to give Winstone's character a reason to die, but it feels underdeveloped, it's true.
Well, it's also there to show they're about knowledge and a hint at why Indy and Oxley are the ones who the skull speaks to and not Spalko.

my problem with aliens in this film, is that it feeds into the trope of 'central/southern american natives' were too dumb to figure out civilization without help.
Think it's in the making of book where Lucas says the idea is that the visitors are the catalyst for the entirety of human civilization so the intent might have been the Ugha were the most qualified to do it and that idea lost while getting the story finished like the scene of Indy specifically saying the Thuggee aren't Hindu in Temple of Doom.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Think it's in the making of book where Lucas says the idea is that the visitors are the catalyst for the entirety of human civilization
This makes me think of the theory that posits that the MacGuffins of the first three films were not divine/supernatural in origin, but pieces of alien technology whose workings go beyond human understanding.
 
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